Fraught friendships

[Separatedandabitsad]

I don’t know where to start as one of the people (Mary) I’m about to write about uses MN regularly so I need to be subtle.

Basically ...

I was great friends with ‘Mike’ from way back. He married ‘Mary’ & after a few teething issues, she & I got on like a house on fire. 6 years later all was not so rosy. Mary & I fell out. Mike continued to make a bit of effort — once every couple of months. But the last time I saw him he really upset me. I tried to tell him & I was even more upset by his dismissive response. I felt he used my traits against me. I told my friend who said I should ‘get over it’ & just meet him again. He wants to meet up soon but I’m still upset & tired of always pretending not to be.

Thoughts? Valid excuses?

There are no excuses these days for not meeting people & I need friends to meet up with but I was upset for weeks after the last time I saw him.

You need to remember that his wife’s feelings were hurt and he’s around her every day, listening to her being upset and her negative comments about you. On repeat. For weeks.

As we don’t know the crux of the matter, let’s say you said ‘I’m dead honest with my feelings’ and he said ‘no you’re not’.

His opinion could be based on something that you said to Mary six months ago that she told him about say your feelings changing for your boyfriend. Mary remembered that one occasion and she has gone on about it and made it look like every time you date a guy you aren’t sure about, you talk about your feelings to pals behind his back instead of talking to the guy yourself to talk. The truth being this only happened once. But Mary’s blown it up, possibly to justify her position with regard to something or to make him choose her side over you if she felt threatened by your relationship with him.

So naturally, having had Mary’s side of the story repeated for weeks adnauseum, he repeats what he believes, not based on truth but instead in her version of the truth. Because when you hear something often enough you believe it.

Don’t underestimate the power of their relationship.

You want to stay pals. Fair enough. I’d forget the comment and give it one last shot if you want to. After that make up your mind if you want to let it fizzle out. Prob best to say that you don’t want to get involved in their marital problems when either one starts bitching. You don’t need the drama.

Approach him as an acquaintance you are pleasant with when you meet at your mutual interest and nothing more

This is great advice & it is what I want but he contacts me for 1 on 1 catch-ups so it’s not as easy to form that dynamic. He seems keen to maintain his friendship with me. I don’t want to be rude but I also don’t want to feel upset for weeks after seeing a friend!

@Elieza

Thank you. I wish to goodness I had said I didn’t want to be involved in their marital problems a long time ago ! It’s too late for all of that now as he barely opens up now because of what happened between me & her.

His opinion could be based on something that you said to Mary six months ago that she told him
This is 100% true! I felt his reaction was more about her perception of me than his. I was very hurt because he’s trying to be neutral but he made it very clear he ain’t & trampled all over my feelings in the process.

@category12

Ha ha!! I’ll check out The Queen’s Gambit! I hear it’s brilliant.

I think in that case, you probably need to either bring it up again and say you've been upset, and see if you can resolve it. This runs the risk of ending the friendship. Or improving it
Unfortunately I can’t do this as one of the issues with Mary was that I brought up something that upset me in the past. So she has painted me as someone who dredges up the past even though I have never done that with Mike & his view of me is clearly tainted.

@sonjadog

Thanks re investing less in friendships ! Investing so much in them certainly hasn’t always helped so far! Another person would have shit down their mutual maiming about one another a long time ago.

*SHUT down their mutual MOANING

I think you need to accept that this is no longer a friendship. He’s not your friend, that’s not going to be reconciled is it? You seem to want him to go back to how things were or to agree with your perspective on things but that’s not realistic. It’s never going to happen.

So your choices are to meet and put up with him being how he is and you won’t change that, or don’t meet him (use any reason you like to excuse yourself) and find other things to invest your time energy and thoughts into.

@Rainbowshine
Thanks for responding. I appreciate all responses. You have the wring end of the stick though. I have never once brought up Mary with him since Mary & I ‘broke up.’ I have never once tried to impose any perspective on any of that on him - not once & of that I’m proud. I feel it’s the right thing to do.

I’m
Upset because he offended me & said things about my character as though he knows me better than I know myself. When I calmly told him I was upset by what he said about me, he snapped & got defensive. He never speaks to others like that (apart from Mary & his sister) & I don’t feel like I’ve been treated well enough by him to put up with family mode. I’m simply hurt & I’m sad too because I’m going through a tough separation & I need friends - & preferably ones who don’t hurt my feelings!

We’ve been friends since reception! I can’t just end that glibly.

*wrong

If I were you, I would make excuses not to meet this time (corona is an excellent excuse) and revisit this in a few months´ time. It might be a situation that when more time has passed, you will see more clearly what you want to do.

Thanks @sonjadog

I suppose the friendship ending with his wife was pretty traumatic to be honest! It affected me terribly - but that was almost 8 months ago. I thought I might hear from her but I haven’t! I’m in a slightly shaky place right now with the separation & I just can’t really handle a friend being so brutal with me! Also, every time I see him, it seems to re-trigger the pain of the break-up with her (she & I had become extremely close friends).

I feel bad refusing the offer of meeting up but maybe you’re right - maybe I’ll have more clarity in time if he doesn’t push it.

@Separatedandabitsad If you’re upset for weeks after meeting him, maybe you shouldn’t be meeting him.
As yourself and his wife have had a falling out it may be difficult to maintain the same level of friendship in the past. Is it possible to reconcile with her as you mention you thought you might have heard from her, or has too much happened / something you’re not keen to do?

@fairydust11

Yeah he knocked me for six the way he spoke to me the last time and a part of me feels ‘why the f**k do I have to put up with this crap?’

As for her, the ball is in her court. I couldn’t handle a friendship with her again - I’d love if she was just ‘Mike’s wife’ but that opportunity is long gone!

As for being upset, yeah the last time I was upset for weeks after seeing him & im not ready to see him again. I really appreciate the advice here because it helped me realise it’s ok not to do something you don’t want to do & it’s ok to be authentic (well quasi authentic - I guess authentic would be telling him I’m still too upset to meet him).

All that said, I still need to contact him & I hate lying. I know I asked for excuses but I really don’t like lying!

[quote Separatedandabitsad]@category12

Ha ha!! I’ll check out The Queen’s Gambit! I hear it’s brilliant.

I think in that case, you probably need to either bring it up again and say you've been upset, and see if you can resolve it. This runs the risk of ending the friendship. Or improving it
Unfortunately I can’t do this as one of the issues with Mary was that I brought up something that upset me in the past. So she has painted me as someone who dredges up the past even though I have never done that with Mike & his view of me is clearly tainted.[/quote]
In the nicest possible way, OP, from everything you’ve said here, it sounds to me as if Mary has a point — you are someone who ‘dredges up things from the past’.

And you all sound like something out of one of those soaps where people keep slamming down the phone on one another, with the original ‘teething issues’ between you and Mary, then your friendship with her, your final falling out with her, and now your issues with Mike.

Honestly, I feel tired even reading about it. For whatever reason, this triangle just isn’t working, and you only seem to be clinging to it long after its sell-by date because, as you’ve said several times on the thread, you ‘need friends’. I’d suggest you find some new friends, because this set seem to have curdled.

@KleinBlue

Thanks for your brutal honesty! I’m not ‘clinging to it.’ I want to move on, I want to see him in social settings online but he is keen to maintain a one on one friendship as I’ve already said. I also have plenty of friends thank you very much!

* social settings ONLY I meant

And for the record, I have never dredged up the past with Mike (as I’ve already stated and yes, I honestly stated that I brought something up with Mary but I don’t see how that makes me ‘someone who dredges up the past.’) I started this thread to look for advice about a friendship that’s been upsetting me-I don’t see how you made a judgment of me based on that.

@Separatedandabitsad maybe you could say you are self isolating and can’t meet at the moment (if you feel comfortable with an excuse like that) and arrange something for in the new year and see how you feel about things then?
Plus it’s definitely ok not to do something especially if that thing is going to upset you. Meeting up with a friend should be enjoyable and something to look forward to. At the moment this doesn’t seem the case. Take time out of the situation for a bit and see how you feel. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks @fairydust11 you’re right!

I emailed him & just said I couldn’t make it this time. Not a great excuse but I didn’t want to get knee deep in a lie. Hopefully he won’t keep at it. It’s admirable that he has tried so hard to maintain his friendship with me but it’s also fraught ... & I’d like my friendships to be simpler.

You sound like hard work. All this falling-out and bearing grudges and dredging up the past. I couldn't be doing with all the drama.

@katy1213

How very horrible of you to take the time to write that.

As for ‘all this falling out’ I fell out with one person and for very good reason. For what it’s worth i, unlike you, have never written a nasty comment on someone else’s thread.