For those who've read Why Men Love Bitches...

[YourHairLooksAmazing]

Inspired by a thread where this book was recommended to the OP. I've had a quick look at excerpts online and I think I might need to pick up a copy!

6 months into a new relationship and I think I might be behaving like a bit of a pushover... not in the way I'm being abused or anything, more that I'm probably a bit too eager to please. Apparently this is very off putting 😬

For those that have read it, a) is it any good? and b) is it too late to put any of if it into practise if you've already shown yourself to be a massive people pleaser?

This is the thing. I'm REALLY busy. I'm a single parent to a young child, I teach very young children. Mentally I am on the edge most of the time. I am needed every second of every day. My head is up my arse most of the time. I have a lot on my plate work wise and personally. Yet... I still feel the need to present as a perfect partner - on top of everything, available, flexible, loving and never rocking the boat. I guess its because I don't want to deal with the fall out of yet another failed relationship. So I just do "the right thing".

Christ, I'm an idiot 😂

It isn’t “bitchy” to not
Do everything someone else’s way
Change yourself to try and win approval from someone
Give up things you might like to do/watch/eat/read/wear sometimes that they aren’t interested in

I think the title of the book isn't the greatest choice. I'm hoping it's more of a nod towards how this behaviour is perceived by some, rather than an accurate description of the behaviour itself.

As an OP said, it's probably an exercise in assertiveness really. Which I'm crap at. I've always hated being the cause of anyone's upset, or putting anyone out. What I was wondering was if it was possible to almost 'reset' part way through a relationship and start being more assertive, less available and more self centred, when you've already laid yourself out to be a 'yes' person.

The only thing I remember about that book was the advice to make popcorn the first time he comes round for food, as opposed to expending any effort on a proper meal.

So when do you make effort for the person you're interested in. If I dated someone who showed such little interest 8n me, it wouldn't last long.

I think I show too much interest. To the point I feel like a side story. I need to find a healthy middle ground. I was hoping this book might help with that.

I haven't read the book, but from the quotes upthread , it's not about being a bitch, more about setting boundaries and standards for yourself.

What I was wondering was if it was possible to almost 'reset' part way through a relationship and start being more assertive, less available and more self centred, when you've already laid yourself out to be a 'yes' person.

Ahhhhh so in essence you're now ready to show him the true authentic version of your personality?

You could start by saying no, instead of automatically saying yes to everything. But you have to be prepared for the fallout aka he might not like this 'version' of you.

Out of interest, what kind of things have you been saying yes to when you really wanted to say no?

You’re not an idiot, it’s very normal

Lots of people are “people pleasers”, the thing I don’t know is if it’s nature or nurture

I am not a people pleaser myself, and that can actually make life a bit difficult sometimes, I think.

I am not sure that we can change who we are

@NurseButtercup I guess saying yes to plans etc when I'm feeling tired or not really up to it.
I've let things slide from cross words we've had (that I'm secretly still stewing on) for the same of keeping the peace.

I let him rearrange my kitchen cupboards the other day. It seemed like he thought he was being helpful but actually it made me feel disorganised and a bit shit, even though I'm actually not. I don't care if all my chopped tomatoes are next to each other. I'm just trying to get though each day at the moment!

I was terminally single and read that book, I’m still terminally single but I’m a damn sight happier for it .

The title is a bit off but I think there’s some good advice in there. I stopped doing the “I’m free whenever” and started doing “I’m free Wednesday or Saturday”. My self esteem has dramatically improved because of taking the advice in that book.

I read it, and loved it. I don't think it's about being a bitch per se, but that a woman who chooses a man because she wants him not because she needs him or is afraid of being alone is a much more attractive choice.

Can still be kind, loving, generous etc, but doesn't sacrifice their own needs for a man.

Makes an awful lot of sense and works the other way too, a man who wants to be your partner makes for a more satisfying relationship than a man who needs any partner I guess.

I haven't read the book, but when in my impressionable early twenties I was advised "treat 'em mean keep 'em keen" and I did that and it worked... except that a few years later a month before our wedding i realised that i didn't want to marry him, i was not in love, i didn't feel loved i just had an "eligible" man servant who did my bidding I do NOT recommend! What a waste of time.
Love for me now is more like best friends, equality, commitment, great sex!
But yes, you do have to be yourself and assertive in the true sense, op, make it equal. And only be with him if you really want him, as opposed to any man, like a pp says!

I read it but I felt like a lot of it just didn't resonate well with me. For instance dating multiple men and letting them all know you're dating more than one man and therefore the one that steps up more 'wins' so to speak. I'm in the UK and dating multiple men over here would gain you a bit so favourable reputation!

The main thing I took from it was not to always be so readily available and keep your own life and interests going. I might add that I read this shortly before meeting my now exh and me not being available in those first few months just made him lose interest. When we spoke about it he said he felt like I was disinterested, so I had to ditch that in the end!

*not so favourable that should say!

"I am not a people pleaser myself, and that can actually make life a bit difficult sometimes, I think."

^I was just thinking this. I am probably the opposite of you OP and could learn to be a bit more of a people pleaser. In some ways it would make life easier.
Especially with relationships i'm not that interested in but SHOULD be making more of an effort for.
Though in an early relationship sense, yes being independent and not overly invested, or willing to compromise too much did work for me in keeping boyfriends keen.^

It really works
It worked everytime with me and got oh to commit

I am a massive people pleaser and it really helped me. It isn't about being a bitch, it's about putting in place healthy boundaries and not placing your needs and wants below someone else's.

I’ve read it. I think it really could do with a better title - I think it was probably chosen because it’s attention-grabbing and memorable but in reality it gives a false impression of the book’s content (from memory, BITCH stands for something like “babe in total control of herself”?)

Anyway I agree with those who have given positive reports. It’s not about playing games, making out you’re busy to seem like you’re not interested, not answering texts on purpose for a few hours etc. It’s about valuing yourself and knowing your worth and not setting any of that aside for a guy, basically. As someone who has been guilty of all of the above, I know how unhealthy it is; the whole premise of the book is about how important it is to stay true to yourself and that a happy offshoot of doing so is that you tend to then be more attractive to men.

If the way a man you're seeing behaves naturally, when he is being himself, behaving how he believes is appropriate, makes you feel uncomfortable, shit about yourself, insecure, sad or anxious DO NOT pretend you feel otherwise. If you explain how you feel and he doesn't genuinely understand why, authentically and totally, then he is not a match for you. That is the bar we should all set rather than playing games.

I'm not a 'bitch', I couldn't be arsed with playing games and making out I was more hard nosed than I was or unattainable no matter what. But I got to 30 and thought ugh I'm not ever again going to pretend I'm ok with something I'm not ok with.

It worked. He's great, I'm happy, it's easy and fun and we want the same things. We laugh all the time, my family loves him and vice versa. Because we were both our authentic selves and didn't bullshit or game play.

It's the way forward. I had that book and read it, but wasn't prepared to play a game where at some point I would go from being an unattainable 'bitch' to my real self.

Decent men love women they love. Not bitches. Not women they can take advantage of because they are vulnerable. But women they get on with, share values with, respect, admire, laugh with etc.

Men who love women who behave as if they are above them and unattainable are (IME) men who are very superficial and I find that unattractive. They view such women as a challenge to be completed, not as a potential life partner they genuinely love and respect. That pedestal is hard to live up to, I've done that too and I realised I hate being doted on because it isn't real. There's a necessary distance to maintain the dynamic that means the connection isn't authentic.

I wrote off anyone who instinctively behaved in a way that didn't sit well with me. I didn't try to game play them because they weren't a naturally good fit for me. As soon as someone did something that conflicted my values I cut it off.

I think that's the best way to find someone who is a genuinely good fit.

youvegottenminuteslynn

This absolutely 100%

The title is clearly click bait type marketing.

I think being a people pleaser or doormat is also playing a game and not being true to yourself. You're putting yourself last because of fear not because you genuinely want to please everyone.

I think you can retrain yourself over time. Instead of just agreeing take pause and ask yourself what you want to do. If you're too tired and just want to go home and relax, that's important too.

Hmm, I haven’t read the book or the whole thread but some of it really resonated with me. My mum was an absolutely lovely, wonderful and attractive woman but she was so laidback, she just placated my angry dad. My stepmum (the OW who dad left her for) is nowhere near as nice as my mum but she doesn’t let dad get away with his moods or indulgences that my mum did, she calls him on stuff, and they seem to have a better relationship because of it.

Now I have an absolutely gorgeous, hardworking, clever friend who is leaving her deadbeat fella after putting up with years of his shit. I couldn’t understand how he would treat this amazing woman so badly, but she was always placating him. He never respected her because of it (his loss).

But I don’t think my mum or my friend can be different people, I do think if both had found nice men though they would have been all good, nice woman plus rubbishy man can’t work. Find a nice bloke, then no need to be a bitch!

I read it and liked it. I was raised to always be accommodating to every one's else's needs, to always be nice. That's what a "good woman" did, you know.

This book tells you to be less accommodating, less compromising, stay true to yourself and when you do that, it makes you more attractive to men. That's counterintuitive to those of us trained to "get along and go along" all the time.

Your man re-arranging your kitchen? What the fuck?

[quote ChristmasFluff]@TossCointoYerWitcher - there is such a book, but it is called 'Women Who Love Too Much' by Robin Norwood[/quote]
I read that book about 15 years ago.
It was insightful. I passed it onto a female friend.
The Passion Paradox was good too.
The Secret was rubbish.
Can't remember who wrote them.

I'd quite like to read that book though OP 👍