Anyone else tired of being objectified / men's entitlement?

[Crazyfrog999]

Mid 30s, dating. I've noticed in recent years how focussed men have become on looks. Perhaps it's always been this way. But since I turned 30, and dating slightly older men, I've noticed how much more entitled they are, and how critical they are too. I'm often told I am attractive by friends, colleagues etc. I've been referred to as a 'MILF', despite looking much, much younger than any man I've dated, and having no kids, one guy even said he wouldn't normally date women over 30 - ie I'm a little on the old side for him, despite him being in his 40s! One guy said I wasn't in good shape enough, despite being a size 8/10, and going to the gym regularly and eating well.

I tend not to date good looking men, so usually average looking men - most people would consider me a catch physically compared to these guys. I don't place much importance on looks anyway. Regardless, none of these guys are Brad Pitt to be that entitled and demanding!

What on earth is going on?

I am a man. I heard enough about the awful experiences of a couple of male acquaintances to never use OLD. Happily one met his now wife in traditional circumstances and married a couple of years ago.

@coronaway - do share!
It would be really interesting to hear what guys have to put up with, is it really as bad as what women have to put up with?

Yes online dating is horrid. Even the short, fat, bald men with no career prospects and really nothing to give a relationship but honestly and love can't do it.

Because so many ladies settle for these losers they have become just as in demand and picky as the nice looking fun men with a life.

Are any more honest and serious than the other? Of course not ..they are still using the same compass in thier pants to make decisions.

It's an OLD thing...

These men think that women are just another commodity they can order online.

As you get a bit older the 'quality' of available men also reduces and you also realise there is a very good reason why so many of these men are single. They don't see women as human beings. Just objects there for their gratification.

It seems to be the rule that so many middle-aged men have convinced themselves that no matter what they look like/have to offer they are entitled to a stunning, young woman with little mind of her own.

The whole thing is toxic. Anyone who criticises your appearance is not worth your while. Somehow it gives them a sense of power.

Personally I gave up on OLD completely.

@StillCantSleep

There have been a few threads along a similar vein over the past few days.

You're not wrong. It's awful.

I keep reading how it's better for women over 40 because we care less about our looks. Not that we neglect them, more that we are less insecure about them. I'm in my mid 40s and I've been largely single since I was 37. Every new relationship I've had since then has resulted in the men criticising my appearance/age despite being/looking younger than them.

I could have an affair though, quite easily. My appearance/age is somewhat less off putting to married men regardless of their age, I find... 🙄

I find this two. The amount of married men interested in me and my other single friends is quite disturbing. I could never have an affair so I'm of no use to them

My daughter informs me it's not much different for women in their twenties. They expect Instagram model looks and porn star bedroom antics.

Women might be as 'picky' as men when it comes to looks but usually if a woman doesn't find a man 'up to their standards' she swipes left/doesn't message. If a man doesn't find a woman 'up to their standards' they message you to tell you/set up a date and tell you on the date. That's the difference.

If OP is too old as a man in his 40s usually dates women younger than 30, how does she know? Why did he message her? If she's too fat at a size 8 for one man, how does she know? Why did he tell her that? Why didn't he keep scrolling?

[quote puttergal]@coronaway - do share!
It would be really interesting to hear what guys have to put up with, is it really as bad as what women have to put up with? [/quote]
@puttergal

Well they go through all the ghosting nonsense that we go through.

They have said a number of women just wanted sex but they don't explicitly say that (maybe for fear of being shamed?). Obviously this is far worse for us when this happens as guys will typically be happy to go along with it and aren't potentially so vulnerable.

Women seemingly being very particular about what they do for work/their career/if they own their own house etc

It is quite common for their matches to ask for money directly - requests to pay off their credit cards, money in exchange for pictures etc. Again this is more of annoyance as often they won't come out with it directly but only after chatting for some time.

My brother went on a date and the woman turned up heavily pregnant! There was no evidence of this in the pictures she used and no mention that she had kids/was having kids! My brother felt bad so went through with the whole date bless him.

I have a lovely single friend who is on the shorter side and his hair is thinning. He has been on a couple of the popular apps for 4 months now and has yet to get a match that wasn't a bot. I keep telling him to get off these apps as his self esteem is now in the gutter.

I think what happens is all the lovely people we would want to date in real life have such a horrible experience with OLD they come off it and hope to meet someone at work or out and about (both even harder to do at the moment of course!). This means you get a more and more concentrated proportion of undesirables on the apps.

All my female friends are now off the apps although occasionally we have a moment of weakness and go back on for a week or so. The only positive is at least I know others are in the same boat and struggling

I have basically accepted I'm going to be single for the rest of my life. Thankfully I don't want children but I really feel for those who do.

My male friends have said some of these men will clearly be negging me because I am attractive.

I'm truly baffled how this tactic ever became a thing that works sometimes

@AryaStarkWolf I think it works if the person is insecure which is even worse when you think about it - very unkind.

[quote coronaway]@AryaStarkWolf I think it works if the person is insecure which is even worse when you think about it - very unkind.[/quote]
Yeah much worse, total manipulation

The main thing is the pool thinning, most recent guys are settled by their late 30s/40s. I imagine there is a degree of bitterness in there too from divorced blokes or maybe guys who feel they should put in no effort.

OLD can be great. Prior to settling down 6 years ago now, I used it a lot. I used to go after 10-15 years older than me on there, looking for sex rather than a relationship (I did say I was open to see how things progressed, but I had a clear idea of what I wanted and at the time a relationship was not it). I found it great! (Probably different for a guy in his mid 20s as I was). I really don't get the being rude thing, I was always polite and affable both online and in person.

I think dont give up on OLD, block anyone who is rude or nasty. Good ones will crop up for both genders 40+, bet they will get snapped up fast though! One thing is the same for all, it's a numbers game.

Totally agree with a PP who said we should all come off the apps and return to dating in real life, how much better that would be! I've found exactly this, men who you wouldn't look twice at in the street looking down their nose at you online. A lot of men are still living with their parents in theirs 40s or with an ex partner. A lot have issues such as gambling, addictions or PTSD and they're very upfront about it. However they expect a slim, pretty younger woman who worships them, delusional much!

From what I've seen of my single male friend's online dating sagas there just seems to be a lot of people on OLD of both genders who have completely unrealistic expectations. There also appear to be plenty of people who are borderline personalities looking for victims.

It seems you need to have a pretty thick skin and a clear idea of your boundaries to do OLD.

Absolute cheek! 🤣 I do put alot of it down to social media , filtered photos , basically altered reality but at least they've done you a favour early on by letting you know just how shallow and most of all deluded they are !

It’s all just a lot of hard work!

I’m going to take a big break from thinking about men, discussing men or even allowing myself to there’ in my head. I’d like to meet a men when I’m ready but for not, I’m happy to take a break!

I’m way too old for all this malarkey but I’m confused as to why you’re only dating average looking older men? If you’re very attractive (and I’m sure you are) and you date average older men you’re just inflating their ego and reinforcing the belief that they’re special and ‘still have it’.
I hope that doesn’t sound mean - it’s not meant to. Just don’t let them get away with being such dicks - you’re worth so much more.

@TiaandTamera

Women might be as 'picky' as men when it comes to looks but usually if a woman doesn't find a man 'up to their standards' she swipes left/doesn't message. If a man doesn't find a woman 'up to their standards' they message you to tell you/set up a date and tell you on the date. That's the difference.

If OP is too old as a man in his 40s usually dates women younger than 30, how does she know? Why did he message her? If she's too fat at a size 8 for one man, how does she know? Why did he tell her that? Why didn't he keep scrolling?

Nuts. I had a guy message me too tell me our politics are not aligned 🤣

@Mermaidwaves

Totally agree with a PP who said we should all come off the apps and return to dating in real life, how much better that would be! I've found exactly this, men who you wouldn't look twice at in the street looking down their nose at you online. A lot of men are still living with their parents in theirs 40s or with an ex partner. A lot have issues such as gambling, addictions or PTSD and they're very upfront about it. However they expect a slim, pretty younger woman who worships them, delusional much!

Not sure if it's fair to lump 'issues' such as gambling and addiction with ptsd. I have ptsd, does this make me less worthy of a date than other women?

*I tend not to date good looking men, so usually average looking men - most people would consider me a catch physically compared to these guys. I don't place much importance on looks anyway. Regardless, none of these guys are Brad Pitt to be that entitled and demanding!

What on earth is going on?*

What's going on is that these men know you're better than them so they are 'negging' you, to make you question your worth so that they have more power in the relationship.

It's the hallmark of a wanker, you don't need to put up with it and I've also had it done to me.

It's definitely true that the older men get who are single the more shitty they are as a PP said - single for a reason.

My daughter informs me it's not much different for women in their twenties. They expect Instagram model looks and porn star bedroom antics.

How depressing :( I really worry about my daughters who are aged between 18 and 11 months.

I do put alot of it down to social media , filtered photos , basically altered reality but at least they've done you a favour early on by letting you know just how shallow and most of all deluded they are !

Agreed

Trust me it's not just that age of men who are entitled on dating apps. I'm 54 and the number of men in their 20's and 30's who contact me professing to be more in tune with an older woman is ridiculous. When I say thanks but no thanks they can't understand why I'd have the audacity to turn them down. Because, you know. They're young , fitter, more stamina etc. They just keep repeating 'but I want an older woman' as if that's enough for me to jump into bed with them! Then act all bewildered when I keep repeating I'm not interested

I think that good looking women are best off dating good looking men - they honestly seem to treat you better! They don’t have inferiority issues and aren’t trying to brigg be you down. It becomes a non-issue. Same as financially solvent people are better paired with others the same. I’m generalising of course, but I would suggest you start looking for men who you find attractive rather than “average”.

I’m late 40s now but did a bit of OLD back when I was about 40. I can confirm it’s equally tough for men but in different ways

I found that women get bombarded with messages and have to filter out the good ones, but they have a lot of choice. Men are expected to message first, be witty and have a crafted and personal message, and 90% of those get ignored. I understand why some opening messages can seem generic, it’s tough to make a massive effort every time. Lots of profiles wanting to be a princess, my kids are my world, if you can’t handle me at my worst...

When you do get talking to someone you can get ghosted, told you’re too old, too short, have kids, even though all that is on the profile. I’ve been told I’m too educated, not educated enough, too successful, not successful enough, too boring, have too many hobbies. Been interrogated on what I earn.

Then you get on a date. Meeting people who are older, larger, taller than their photos. Or who don’t show up.

To be fair I have no horror stories, I tended to filter out the worst early on and only really met nice people I just didn’t click with.