Divorce, AIBU?

[1strangerthings]

Hi there,

I work for the NHS in corporate services, which has been a minefield recently around contract issues, COVID etc, taking exams.

Now, I admit I could have helped out a bit more. Wife works 30 hours a week, I do 37. Generally, I may cook twice a week, I'll wash up and do the occasional load of washing etc.

I've been sleeping downstairs as I snore, the wife will wake up, wake me up and go downstairs in a bit of a huff.

Before this, she kept telling me her heart was set on a new Kitchen, so I paid my savings into a new kitchen.

She woke me up at 02:00hrs in the morning to tell me she wanted a divorce. She says she knows I have watched porn and I said 'yes, I've watched it occasionally'.

I am now in receipt of divorce papers and I am having mediation (financial and childcare) chasing me every day, but this has all happened in the space of just over 2 weeks, so my head is spinning.

We put a deposit on the house with my money. During some PTSD compensation from the army, it went off to pay off her credit card. And it was my savings to spend on the kitchen. She has now said I will pay the mortgage, provide CMS and will have my daughter every other weekend and should count myself lucky I'm getting that.

The divorce petition is unreasonable behaviour, because I don't do the housework.

The bank have said only I can manage the bank repayments going forward. My parents have offered over half the equity to pay her off. She's 'not getting it' and thinks I am trying to trick her. She's not very switched on financially and I am not crippling myself by trying to pay rent and mortgage at the same time indefinitely, it's not feasible.

Her sister thinks she's mad, but it has got to the point where it is endangering their relationship. I'm worried about the effect it has on my daughter and have asked if we can talk things through, or seperate first without going through divorce, but she's admanet. She has a habit of fixating on things, and then realising the grass isn't always greener. She refused to talk to her mum for 2 years and thinks everyone is talking about her.

I see marriage as a partnership, but I think she has too many unrealistic expectations (flowers every other day etc). I don't think she realises sometimes it is hard work.

I'm just a bit shell shocked. I've been doing more (I never knew she was so unhappy), but Saturday she takes our daughter out, Sunday I have her.

When I said we would have to talk about the house, she said she would report me for domestic abuse. ALthough she now accepts that was an overreaction.

She's asked today, if I can make a soup. I'm just very confused where this has all come from. I'm not perfect, but this seems to have come from nowhere.

The wife served him with divorce papers so it's irrelevant whether or not he wants to reconcile.

I think seeing all savings as yours, and debt as hers may not help.

@MessAllOver

Two things here - it might be useful to separate them out - (i) your relationship; and (ii) what your wife might be entitled to in a divorce.

On (i), it sounds like things haven't been great in your relationship for a while and your wife "checked out" emotionally long ago. She's just reached boiling point now. I suspect the reason is that what you interpret as being a "partnership" (her working slightly less than you but probably doing over 90% of housework and childcare and carrying the household "mental load), she views more as you treating her like the resident skivvy. The disrespect she feels she is shown is probably compounded by the porn-watching.

I don't think she realises sometimes it is hard work.

Sounds like she's the one doing most of the hard work, i.e. household drudgery. Apologies if I'm wrong on this, but when was the last time you scrubbed the loo or the kitchen floor or cleaned out the fridge? Or folded and put the laundry away? Who sorts your daughter out? Buys clothes and packs her school/nursery bag, that sort of thing. Putting a wash on and cooking occasionally doesn't scratch the surface of what is needed to run a house.

On (ii), the financial aspect, it doesn't matter how unreasonable she thinks you've been, a court's still not going to award her a financial settlement that's unfair to you or effectively means you're her 'slave'. So she might get a decent share of the equity (more than 50% if she's primary carer) but unless she can buy you out, which you say she can't, the house will probably have to be sold. You won't be forced to pay the mortgage and rent separately if it would leave you destitute.

On 50/50 shared care of your daughter, you should think very carefully about this. Firstly, are you doing it in order to reduce the maintenance payable? If so, depending on your daughter's age (apologies if I've missed this), bear in mind that childcare costs and your share of your daughter's expenses may come to more than you would have to pay in maintenance. Secondly, if you really do want to genuinely share care, is it in your daughter's best interests and is she going to be able to cope with moving between homes? Think about who provides most of her care at the moment? Is it you or your wife or do you parent jointly? The status quo continuing is probably going to be in her best interests, at least to start with.

Thanks for your post.

My daughter's welfare is my primary concern. Without sounding like an 'knowitall' , she's easily top of her class with figures, at 5 years old, she knows the majority of her timetables, can do straightforward algebra, BIDMAS, reasonably comfortable around operations, so I would want to continue coaching her on this, whilst still remaining fun with her.

I'll likely pay a bit more maintenance, to help out, as I don't want her life to be unnecessarily hard (but I can't completely bankroll Mum as well).

I don't want to be 'weekend' dad (every fortnight). I want to have a meaningful relationship going forward and that includes working on behaviour etc, rather than just taking her out on day trips and holidays. I want to carry on with the experience of taking her to school, meeting her friends and being a positive influence on her.

My wife doesn't see it, but she will also need a break and some time to herself, at the moment it's almost a symbiotic relationship.

@IndecentFeminist

I think seeing all savings as yours, and debt as hers may not help.

The problem is she doesn't tell me about debts and tends to burn cash on candles, games, mcdonalds, coffees at work etc.

As soon as we talked about savings, she already had it spent out.

She has a lot of good qualities, financial management is not one of them.

I'll likely pay a bit more maintenance, to help out, as I don't want her life to be unnecessarily hard (but I can't completely bankroll Mum as well).

Your wife must earn a fair amount if she's working 30 hours a week, surely? If you have 50/50 care, she may be able to increase her hours. Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding, but why would you need to "bankroll" her? You'll need to pay maintenance for your daughter if you don't do 50/50 care and, if your wife's earning potential is lower, the split of assets should maybe reflect this. But that would probably be all.

Please take legal advice and I'd suggest reposting in a weeks time pretending you're female because the sexism and inequality of women on here is absolutely shameful and embaressing.
People posting for support should receive it, no matter what they're gender.
If a woman posted they wouldn't be told their partner would have a different version, or that they're just biased.
Gender equality means all genders are treated equally, not that men get ripped into when they ask for help.

I'm sorry for the responses you've received OP. Please do get proper advice

She also works, does her job pay ok? She doesn't work much less than you, and with you taking joint responsibility for childcare through the week she'll presumably have far more flexibility too?

the sexism and inequality of women on here is absolutely shameful and embaressing.

Are you reading the same thread as me? The responses seem quite balanced .

@baileys6904

Please take legal advice and I'd suggest reposting in a weeks time pretending you're female because the sexism and inequality of women on here is absolutely shameful and embaressing. People posting for support should receive it, no matter what they're gender. If a woman posted they wouldn't be told their partner would have a different version, or that they're just biased. Gender equality means all genders are treated equally, not that men get ripped into when they ask for help.

I'm sorry for the responses you've received OP. Please do get proper advice

Agree wholeheartedly with this

Ignore the harpies of Mumsnet

I'd get a solicitor but no you won't be expected to pay the mortgage and also fund your own accommodation. You are required to pay CMS nothing less but if you want to pay her more it's up to you

Personally I think your "contribution " to the family in terms of housework sounds fine/normal. You can't help snoring so it's unfair of her to get the arse with you

@MessAllOver

the sexism and inequality of women on here is absolutely shameful and embaressing.

Are you reading the same thread as me? The responses seem quite balanced .

How often do PPs comment that they would love to hear the husband’s or partner’s side of the story when a woman posts on this board? I’ve certainly never seen it.

I can imagine the face-pull that all is women would of done on reading that you paid for the kitchen out of 'your' savings. That shows a certain wrong mindset from the off, as there is no 'my' savings within marriage, all assets are joint. Its not going to endear you to people pointing things like that out.
Start from a place of everything is ours - including half of debts I'm afraid, so what's left of savings after they have been paid off is split 50/50 as a start. Then there is the equity in the house - I'd advise a clean break and selling so you can each get your equity stake to buy your own property. If you have your DD less than 50/50, you can expect to have to pay maintenance, you won't have to pay the mortgage for her.
Has this really come so out of the blue, or has she been trying to tell you, but you have not listened? It's a bit odd as a mother to suddenly do this without warning. I'd be wondering if or what has sparked this?

As another poster stated, it sounds to me like she's been fed up for a while, if this is the case, it may seem as though she's making mountains out of molehills, but it's more likely she's just reached boiling point and has checked out (possibly given up on bringing up her grievances repeatedly with no change).
And what is it with some men and the whole 'she wants flowers every day' thing? I often brought up to my ex that it would be nice to be brought flowers every now and again as it would have made me feel appreciated. He took it to mean that I wanted flowers every day (and I know this as he used it as a dig during an argument). Eventually I just got fed up of repeating myself and emotionally detached.
The domestic violence accusation; do you tend to get shouty or heated during arguments? Have you been forceful in expressing your wishes over hers? Are you not listening to her? Trying to coerce her into staying?
If any of these are the case, though a far cry away from violence, some of these behaviours can cause the recipient to become intimidated (particularly if your wife is sensitive in nature), or feel emotionally claustrophobic.
I would also like to hear your wifes side of the story.

Always heartwarming to see posters falling over themselves to assist a man in screwing over the wife.

Op, the way you respond to people who don't fawn over you is very telling.

Personally I think your "contribution " to the family in terms of housework sounds fine/normal.

So if the OP's wife did the same amount as the OP, presumably the house would run like clockwork then? All dinners cooked, floors hoovered, rooms tidied, bathrooms cleaned, loos scrubbed, kitchen surfaces wiped, sink and fridge cleaned, bins taken out, laundry done and put away, children organised etc.?

No, instead 4 meals a week would be cooked (rather than 16), the washing-up might be done and a couple of loads of washing might be put through.

The OP sounds like a great dad, but his own posts indicate he's been content up till now to leave most of the household shit to his wife. He might have been happy with the arrangement, she obviously was not. She doesn't work that much less than him either, it's not like she's a SAHM.

@user1825894133270

Always heartwarming to see posters falling over themselves to assist a man in screwing over the wife.

Op, the way you respond to people who don't fawn over you is very telling.

We all come into this with some bias. I think that's quite telling in some of the responses I've had tbh.

I've been equally told for holding stuff back, whilst also being told off by people for being honest about some of the issues I have brought into it.

@Tiny2018

As another poster stated, it sounds to me like she's been fed up for a while, if this is the case, it may seem as though she's making mountains out of molehills, but it's more likely she's just reached boiling point and has checked out (possibly given up on bringing up her grievances repeatedly with no change). And what is it with some men and the whole 'she wants flowers every day' thing? I often brought up to my ex that it would be nice to be brought flowers every now and again as it would have made me feel appreciated. He took it to mean that I wanted flowers every day (and I know this as he used it as a dig during an argument). Eventually I just got fed up of repeating myself and emotionally detached. The domestic violence accusation; do you tend to get shouty or heated during arguments? Have you been forceful in expressing your wishes over hers? Are you not listening to her? Trying to coerce her into staying? If any of these are the case, though a far cry away from violence, some of these behaviours can cause the recipient to become intimidated (particularly if your wife is sensitive in nature), or feel emotionally claustrophobic. I would also like to hear your wifes side of the story.

Re - the domestic abuse.

When I said I would look to provide equity (and a bit more) or a sell and split, she accused me of financial abuse, despite me pointing out that was what a Judge would order.

With regards to shouting I'm the opposite. I try to remain calm and see a balanced approach. Unfortunately I now have to build in a negotiation factor, so she feels like she is gaining something.

OP, why don't you suggest swapping with your wife? You do everything she does in house at the moment and reduce your hours. She only has to cook a few meals and do some washing, but in exchange she increases her hours. It would be interesting to see her response.

@CurrentEvents

IndecentFeminist You only work 7 hrs per week more than her...does she only have 7 hrs' worth more responsibilities? Yeah, pretty much once you net everything off, bath time, cleaning etc.

1-Hoooo boy, you have a fucking shock coming to you when you have your child to care for totally on your own.

2- Unless your hands are broken, 2 nights a week cooking when you only work one extra day is bollocks. As is the excuse that you don't do much round the house because of this.

Basically, if you were my husband, relaxing and wanking while I skivvied around after you, and then couldn't even sleep in my own bed without you hacking and grunting next to me, I'd have fantasised about worse than divorcing you.

Not really.Now that I've thought about it.

I've cooked the meals for the last 10 days and cleaned. I've done all the washing for the last 3 weeks. I've done all the housekeeping.

I've taken her to school/picked her up twice in the week.

Work have agreed flexible working, so I can work in the evenings as and when needed.

A shock is coming, I'll grant you. But I believe it will be more to do with the loss of disposable income from her view.

By the way, 90% of men are wankers, 10% are liars. I guess we know which one your husband is.

@MessAllOver

Personally I think your "contribution " to the family in terms of housework sounds fine/normal.

So if the OP's wife did the same amount as the OP, presumably the house would run like clockwork then? All dinners cooked, floors hoovered, rooms tidied, bathrooms cleaned, loos scrubbed, kitchen surfaces wiped, sink and fridge cleaned, bins taken out, laundry done and put away, children organised etc.?

No, instead 4 meals a week would be cooked (rather than 16), the washing-up might be done and a couple of loads of washing might be put through.

The OP sounds like a great dad, but his own posts indicate he's been content up till now to leave most of the household shit to his wife. He might have been happy with the arrangement, she obviously was not. She doesn't work that much less than him either, it's not like she's a SAHM.

To be fair, I did talk about how many hours we are contracted to work, as opposed to how many hours we actually do.

Wife is contracted to do 30 hours, but likely does about 20 hours in reality.

I'm contracted to do 37 hours, but likely do around 50 hours.

Sorry, let's just clarify things.

Men and Woman aren't Saints or Sinners because of their gender.

For those of who are blinded about a feminist/matriarchal approach are deluded, there is no 'sisterhood' out-there.

In the space of 3 weeks, I have been approached by 3 women, who have got wind of my divorce, asking me for a 'coffee, drink, go out for a run' together. 2 from work, another a friend of my cousin. I'm not friends with these women, they are just acquaintances, even the colleagues aren't particularly close.

I've declined all offers, because even if my marriage is over, I wouldn't be in the right frame of mind. I need to get through this one way or another in an amicable manner and get a routine for my daughter.

But let's get over this gender bias okay?

Sorry, I'm confused . Your marriage isn't in trouble because of "the sisterhood" or anything like that. It's in trouble because, while some women might be happy with a 1950s style marriage in which they do most of the household grind, your wife isn't one of them.

To be fair, I did talk about how many hours we are contracted to work, as opposed to how many hours we actually do.

Wife is contracted to do 30 hours, but likely does about 20 hours in reality.

I'm contracted to do 37 hours, but likely do around 50 hours.

Sounds like your wife has worked out how to work smartly. Maybe you’re -consciously or subconsciously - avoiding home life.

My ex did this, too, so he wouldn’t have to do any chores around the house. It wasn’t a good partnership, tbh, especially as my career was vvv similar to his.

For the record- your situation is remarkably similar to mine, right down to the accusations of financial abuse and the snoring. In the end I had to gently direct my ex to his free half hour with the solicitor, because he was also misinformed. I got 80-20 share of the house and we have 50-50 care of DD. So don’t be too certain of things. Get informed.

I saw two solicitors of my own. The first gave me advice about how to divorce his sorry ass off. But you know what? Despite what you and your crony male friends think in this thread, I wanted him to be looked after, and on the advice of the 2nd solicitor, sat with him to help him type up some unreasonable behaviours together. We had the happiest divorce in town, and he is an exceptional ex husband.

Not all wives are aggressive, shouty, money grabbing biatches, as you have suggested. But you have to remember that Mumsnet will mostly have that - mums - and porn-using, snoring, disengaged husbands will most likely get short shrift on here.

Best of luck.

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