MIL is she mentally unstable

[tillux]

This might be a long winded post so sorry in advance.

So MIL has always been an issue. She comes across all lovely like she wants to help, but deep down I feel like it's the complete opposite, bit of background, she unfortunately had a child pass away 20+ years ago and I can not even begin to think how that must feel... but I feel she put a lot of upset onto my now husband growing up, when I first met him he hated pretty much everything happy if that makes sense... was always excluding himself from happy and fun activities and I found out he had been on antidepressants for years. I nearly ended it with him as I'm very outgoing and social but he said he only felt happy with me and he's never felt like this before and felt like he was coming out of his shell. Luckily he did and he's such a different man to the one I met (in all good ways! )

We stuck at it and fast forward years later we now have 2 children together and I have one from a previous relationship.
Our first child was born on the birthday of my MIL child that had passed away. I feel like this was probably not the best thing that could of happened as since child has been born she does not leave off... it's gradually got worse, even more so since child two arrived (who she takes pretty much zero interest in and multiple others have noticed) only 9 weeks old. With child 1 she will whisper things to, and want to see 2/3/4 times a week, she won't tell child 1 off, will let them do what they want etc, this caused problems as child 1 only ever saw me as a bad person, the one who tells them off or doesn't let them have sweets 24/7 or fizzy drinks (child is 3!!) I spoke to my husband and said it needs to stop as our child is so nasty to me for no reason. She refers to herself as mummy instead of nanny sometimes which I can't help but feel is done purposely as she never does it if my husband is around 🤷🏻‍♀️, she always refers back to her passed child and compares them with my child, she's brought my child a bangle with her child's passed favourite Disney character which MIL, FIL and all MIL side of family all wear, I just think it's all a bit strange, she cries to my husband if she doesn't see child 1 more than 2 times a week. I've now limited this to once a week and she was texting me saying it's unfair and she needs to see them as she misses them so much, but will only focus her attention when she is here on child 1. She also always throws down our throats at every opportunity how she doesn't see them enough, even when she was seeing us 4 times a week and she wishes she didn't have to work so she could be with child 1 all the time.

It's just really grating on me, there is so many other things but is to long to list in details, but a few things shortened are,

Steals sweets from our house and toys of child 1 to take to her house

Spites child 2 and will leave to cry if left alone together (child 2 9 weeks) obviously stopped this.

Constantly only asks about child 1

If I book things such as family trips she gets the hump I don't ask her, then promptly says to me she will book to come to,
Luckily last few times because of COVID stuff is booked quick!

Took child 1 to do an activity I had been waiting to do with on my own with them 2 days after I gave birth. I cried for hours, as was something I really wanted to do on my own with them and she knew that.

Doesn't like anyone else babysitting and makes it very apparent.

Says she's the green eyed monster if anyone else comes to see the children and she's not invited.

Checks up on my excuses about being busy if I say we can't see her, will question husband or my older child but in a gentle way, did you like going there sort of thing.

Doesn't listen to the way we parent

Extremely opinionated and very blunt

Whispers secrets to child 1

Wanted child 1 bedroom camera on her phone for her to view whenever.

I just feel like it's starting to affect mine and my husbands relationship, and although I feel his pain on being in the middle, I just don't know how much longer I can deal with it. She's defo not someone you could sit and chat properly about these things, it just would make things 10000 times worse so I just feel stuck

Not sure what I'm thinking I will get from posting maybe just a hand hold, but I just feel done with it.

Bless you. She sounds like a nightmare x

So many red flags here. I would be stopping contact altogether or at least reducing to very low contact and supervised contact only. No more babysitting or being left alone with DC1. She sounds very unstable and is projecting her grief in the way she is behaving with DC1. No way would I want my DC exposed to that. Not to mention the effect it will have on your DC2 when they realise they are irrelevant to MIL. I think you need to completely back away from her.

What does your husband say about all this?
If hes not backing you up then your biggest problem is a DH problem not a MIL problem.
She sounds dreadful by the way and the more people like this get their way, the worse they get.
You need to put up and enforce boundaries. Easier said than done but critically important.

@Missthedog @coconutpie thank you for your responses, I just need clarification I wasn't going mad thinking she's mad! My mum and her do not get along so my mum thinks it's completely wrong and has even told me to watch she doesn't ever attempt
To take child 1.

I just feel so lost, I feel if I keep badgering husband about her and her behaviour he will look at me as the bad one? She's very good at making him feel sorry for her by using the passing of her 1st child and getting upset. Most recent today.

I need to move to Australia 🤦🏻‍♀️

It's pretty clear that she has a lingering mental health problem around the loss of her child and/or ridiculous expectations of her rights to access with her grandchild(ren). However, the reasons don't matter, you absolutely need to lay down firm barriers and start excluding her before it ruins both the relationship with your husband and your child. Actually it's not you that needs to establish the barriers but your husband. If he won't then you have serious problems in your marriage.

@HelenUrth unfortunately he can get pulled into her way of things and say to me, just leave it she means no harm, she's just trying to help, and he feels bad because of the passing of the child and seeing child 1 because of the same birthday brings her joy.

I think I need to sit down properly with him, I just don't want it to go the wrong way and him think I'm just being nasty. It's not I'm trying to be nasty, but it's just pushing me into a state of upset/ anger/ frustration.

@pog100 thank you, yes I do agree, I did say I didn't want them here all over Xmas, which in fairness he was completely in agreement with and told them. She then got upset and said to him can she come over one day in the week even though there are plans to see them one day at the weekend for a walk. It's like she finds any way to pull at the heart strings, he obviously doesn't see it as much as I do because it's his mum 🤷🏻‍♀️

Tillux, she sounds manipulative and controlling. I personally would be worried about her effect on my children as they grew up. And agree with pp, I would be avoiding her. I am sure if you discuss with your dh, he will have your children's best interests as priority.. he will be aware of what she has done to him. You will need to be strong together and set some very strict boundaries.

This is a really tough situation.
As others have said your MIL has some quite significant mental health difficulties which stem from losing a child and she hasn’t been able to process the loss and grief. It is incredibly sad and she needs MH support but would she agree to this? It doesn’t sound like she would.

I think your DH and the rest of her family are largely enabling her behaviour, maybe because they don’t know how to help her. But your priority is obviously your DC’s, she could potentially cause a great deal of harm to all of your children with her behaviour. She has already caused your 3 yr old to start behaving differently towards you and I can only see this getting worse. Your newborn is completely excluded and I assume your eldest is too. This cannot continue, it is no life for any of you to lead being held captive to her controlling behaviour.

I think you need to seriously talk all this through with your DH. Have you ever given him all the examples of your MIL’s behaviour in the same way as in your OP? Seeing it like this might have an impact. He can’t currently see the issues you do because it sounds like he has lived with this for most of his life. Maybe have some counselling together because it is putting a strain on your marriage. But whatever happens you need to advocate for your DC’s and keep to low contact. Certainly don’t leave her alone with your DC’s and keep putting in place boundaries. But going NC may be the only way forward if nothing changes.

I wouldn’t be able to tolerate this.
I’d have to be very blunt and explain to her that her behaviour is not appropriate and you will not tolerate it.
Next time she behaves like this bluntly say
‘Right it’s time for (nanny, grandma- whatever she is called to your children) to go now, we’re going to go and do x (make up something to go and do) and give her no choice but to leave immediately.

Then follow it up with a message along the lines of ‘This behaviour has to stop or you will not be seeing the children anymore. It’s not healthy for the children and will affect them as they grow up. You need to seek some help for your issues instead of projecting them like this. This will be your only warning’.

This isn't normal.Full stop.My younger brother died when I was a child.My DD was born on his 19th birthday.My mum doesn't behave like your MIL does;not even close.

We'll never forget my brother and he has a place in our hearts and memories;my 2 other brothers who were born after he passed and our respective children have been told about him.

Your mother in law has transferred her feelings for her dead child onto your child.Being born on their birthday has probably been a catalyst for this.

Your DH needs to stop indulging his DM's inappropriate behaviour and should encourage her to seek professional help,quite frankly she needs a psychiatrist.

You need to cease any unsupervised contact with your child with her.

Keep a diary. If she had been having contact 3 or 4 times a week she has a pretty good argument to a court that she should continue to do so. Unless you can counter with all the perfectly good reasons (with evidence) why she shouldn’t.

Grandparents don’t have an automatic right to apply to court. They have to ask for “leave” (permission) to make an application. If they have been having regular contact it might be granted.

You never get over your child dying and grief can make you do all kinds of weird things. However, you can still be an unpleasant person irrespective of what you have been through. Regardless of the reason behind your MIL’s behaviour, you are not happy with it and if she isn’t going to change then you need to either accept the way she is, talk to her to ensure she does change, or else cease contact.

@tillux

This might be a long winded post so sorry in advance.

So MIL has always been an issue. She comes across all lovely like she wants to help, but deep down I feel like it's the complete opposite, bit of background, she unfortunately had a child pass away 20+ years ago and I can not even begin to think how that must feel... but I feel she put a lot of upset onto my now husband growing up, when I first met him he hated pretty much everything happy if that makes sense... was always excluding himself from happy and fun activities and I found out he had been on antidepressants for years. I nearly ended it with him as I'm very outgoing and social but he said he only felt happy with me and he's never felt like this before and felt like he was coming out of his shell. Luckily he did and he's such a different man to the one I met (in all good ways! )

We stuck at it and fast forward years later we now have 2 children together and I have one from a previous relationship.
Our first child was born on the birthday of my MIL child that had passed away. I feel like this was probably not the best thing that could of happened as since child has been born she does not leave off... it's gradually got worse, even more so since child two arrived (who she takes pretty much zero interest in and multiple others have noticed) only 9 weeks old. With child 1 she will whisper things to, and want to see 2/3/4 times a week, she won't tell child 1 off, will let them do what they want etc, this caused problems as child 1 only ever saw me as a bad person, the one who tells them off or doesn't let them have sweets 24/7 or fizzy drinks (child is 3!!) I spoke to my husband and said it needs to stop as our child is so nasty to me for no reason. She refers to herself as mummy instead of nanny sometimes which I can't help but feel is done purposely as she never does it if my husband is around 🤷🏻‍♀️, she always refers back to her passed child and compares them with my child, she's brought my child a bangle with her child's passed favourite Disney character which MIL, FIL and all MIL side of family all wear, I just think it's all a bit strange, she cries to my husband if she doesn't see child 1 more than 2 times a week. I've now limited this to once a week and she was texting me saying it's unfair and she needs to see them as she misses them so much, but will only focus her attention when she is here on child 1. She also always throws down our throats at every opportunity how she doesn't see them enough, even when she was seeing us 4 times a week and she wishes she didn't have to work so she could be with child 1 all the time.

It's just really grating on me, there is so many other things but is to long to list in details, but a few things shortened are,

Steals sweets from our house and toys of child 1 to take to her house

Spites child 2 and will leave to cry if left alone together (child 2 9 weeks) obviously stopped this.

Constantly only asks about child 1

If I book things such as family trips she gets the hump I don't ask her, then promptly says to me she will book to come to,
Luckily last few times because of COVID stuff is booked quick!

Took child 1 to do an activity I had been waiting to do with on my own with them 2 days after I gave birth. I cried for hours, as was something I really wanted to do on my own with them and she knew that.

Doesn't like anyone else babysitting and makes it very apparent.

Says she's the green eyed monster if anyone else comes to see the children and she's not invited.

Checks up on my excuses about being busy if I say we can't see her, will question husband or my older child but in a gentle way, did you like going there sort of thing.

Doesn't listen to the way we parent

Extremely opinionated and very blunt

Whispers secrets to child 1

Wanted child 1 bedroom camera on her phone for her to view whenever.

I just feel like it's starting to affect mine and my husbands relationship, and although I feel his pain on being in the middle, I just don't know how much longer I can deal with it. She's defo not someone you could sit and chat properly about these things, it just would make things 10000 times worse so I just feel stuck

Not sure what I'm thinking I will get from posting maybe just a hand hold, but I just feel done with it.

@tillux Seriously there's a few massive red flags there! Seriously you need to act now and spell it out to DH that his mother's behaviour is actually serious and losing her child is no excuse for this kind of behaviour, playing favourites, whispering in your child's ear, encouraging them to keep secrets and asking for a camera in their bedroom so she can see them any time she wants is seriously ringing alarm bells!

Ask your husband how he would feel about this sort of behaviour if it was his/ your father behaving like that with a granddaughter for example and you responded the same way as he is right now. To be honest OP what your mother in law is doing isn't much different from grooming (minus the sexual element from this) she's using emotional blackmail to guilt your husband into siding with her and manipulating everyone including your child for her own purpose. She sounds seriously creepy and unhinged to be honest.

Personally I think you need to stop all contact between her and your kids because what she's doing is incredibly damaging. So what if she turns up at your house you don't have to let her in or even answer the door. Stop telling her your plans just say we're busy and refuse to engage further. If she tries to invite herself along firmly say "no thank you its for me and the kids to do together" if she cries and has a tantrum ignore it like you would a toddler and please please don't ever let her be alone with your child without you there because right now whatever she's whispering in their ears they won't remember but another year or two and your little one will remember it and start believing it.

I'd also point out to your husband that if his mother's behaviour was so normal then why does he have the mental health problems he's got and does he really want his kids to go through that just to please his mother? Whatever he does for her will never be good enough people like your mother in law are takers, they take and take and take and never give anything in return.

I'm so sorry to hear this xx

I had a mentally ill mother in law. Husband was an only child & she’d been abusively loving (including sexual contact) with him as a child. If he dared go against her, her levels of emotional blackmail were extreme; I was in hospital for a suspected mid term miscarriage over a weekend, on the Monday he was due to accompany me for the scan at 10am & at 9am she rang to say she’d taken an overdose & wanted to die.

So, he rushed there whilst I had my scan, and I was alone when I was told our baby had died.

When he got there, he found her sat on the sofa, wondering why he was there (!) & that she hadn’t rung him!

When his Dad died, her behaviour accelerated.

She’d call herself Mummy to our daughter, sent Valentines cards to my husband (she had a particular misspelling of our postcode which caught her out). My mother in law ignored my son (from a previous relationship), calling me ‘evil’ & regularly reported me to Social Services (lots of visits that soon stopped when the saw my kids were clean, cared for, warm, fed & loved).

I even went to my shared dentist & asked by him to be honest about my drug abuse as MIL had reported I had track marks due to heroin use - I was a regular blood donor!

We tried to help her with her mental health, in regular contact with her hospital & community team, but unless she gave consent there was no way we could be there with her medical team to help her (she would deny illness, despite regular suicide attempts, wander the streets in just a nightie, walked out in front of a car & knocked over - she’d chosen a car with a mother & children in it - tell us her admissions under section were urine infections, the list was exhaustive).

The final straw was a call from the Police to say it had been reported to them she’d asked a violent offender she was on the ward with (and due for discharge) to abduct our daughter, so we had Police protection at her school, locked down to our house except to go to school etc until he was found & rearrested (under licence I think).

It was terrifying.

The only thing we could do was emotionally detach, then physically detach.

The moral of my rambling tale is, you can offer hope & a helping hand, but if it is not accepted, there is nothing you can do. She was obviously hurting & ill but we couldn’t help her. Our priority was to protect the children & ourselves.

This sorry tale ended in a tragically predictable fashion. Another suicide attempt, this time fatal.

Please try to offer help with kindness & understanding. But if they won’t accept it, there is nothing you can do but protect yourselves.

I imagine your dh sees less issue in this situation because he has been conditioned by her behaviour. This really needs to be more than grating on you. You both need some very clear boundaries.

Neither of you should be encouraging a strong relationship between your eldest and her. Your eldest will not be little for long and at some stage will be able to go to grandma’s of their own accord - I’m thinking of teenage strops etc. And your youngest will soon pick up on the favouritism.

I think you should consider creating a united front of back off, treat both children the same and unless and until you are able, visits will not be happening.

Centrifugal
That is terrifying. I hope you now have peace.

@tillux
Given the second child is only 9 weeks old, how much involvement do you really think that mil should be having?
The first child obviously has a personality and can participate in activities. Totally different to a newborn. I think your assertions that she's not bothered atm are more a reflection of your concerns.

I also think that your mum's dislike of her is affecting your opinion and indeed she's stirring the pot by suggesting kidnapping!

Losing a child is awful. I know someone who has lost 2 children and that pain, 60 years ago is still as fresh as though yesterday. Try having some heart about that.

Step back. Look at this from a few more neutral position that hasn't been influenced /polluted by your mum.

If when baby is mobile /toddler she's not developed a more active relationship that's time to raise issues. Not at 9 weeks.

Think on to when your child is older and doesn't agree with the actual parenting you are doing and knows Nanny will let him do everything he's ever wanted and never say no? Imagine that child being 13-14 and going to live with Nanny after a row over screen time?

Thank you all for your replies, I will have a proper read after school run! I think bottom line I need to make a list and talk through them with husband. I know he won't see it as I do because of how she has him and has treated him like one user said, she definitely impacted his mental health and clouded his judgement against her. I will raise what if it was a member of my family etc. Hopefully then he will see a bit more.

Also understand she can't have much of a relationship with a baby, but she never asks over him, or wants to hold, engage in any play with him, he smiles lots now and laughs a little bit and there's no warmth between them both, but when child 1 was born she was very different and wanted to take child 1 as a baby for walks etc even at a very early age. I guess I compare how she was with child 1 as a baby to child 2 and it's completely different!!

Will start to think how to approach properly with husband properly!!

What luciferthecat wrote earlier in it’s entirety.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend?. No.

She is not an emotionally safe person to be at all around. Not all relatives are nice and some like your MIL are actively abusive. If she is too difficult, toxic or batshit for you to deal with it’s the same deal for your children as well. She will merely continue to damage the relationship between their relationship as siblings and your relationship with them as parents. You really do need to protect yourself and all your children from her.

Your DH is mired completely in his own fear, obligation and guilt and his own inertia re his mother simply continues to hurt him as well as you people, his own family unit. He needs to see a therapist (and one at that who has no familial bias) ideally to repair the grooming and harm his mother did to him from childhood. It may also be an idea for you to read Toxic In-laws written by Susan Forward.

Some of the answers are way over the top here. The MIL's behaviour is very strange, but are you 100% convinced you have a neutral view of her that's not coloured by your own mum?

My mum ignores most of my parenting and spoils my kids rotten. My 9 yr old often tells me he's going to go live with grandma when I tell him off, because grandma is nicer to him (basically no rules at grandma's house!) This son also has a condition that is degenerative and ultimately it's life limiting, no cure.

I know that the chance of me reaching old age without my older son is very high unless there is some sort of miracle cure. If in that situation my future DIL gave birth to a child on his birthday, it would feel like the most amazing gift from the heavens. Has she overstepped her boundaries? Sounds like it, but at the same time it sounds like she has an enormous amount of unprocessed grief from losing her child.

There is nothing worse in the world. You don't need to be guilt tripped by this fact, but you do need to acknowledge that this trauma probably broke her mentally. It would break anyone.

Your DH needs to have a word with her that your 1st child is not a replacement. Other than that your second child is only 9wks so the relationship will come with time, and much of your issue is that she loves your DC too much?

Sorry for sounding harsh, but be careful and be kind.

Love should not be hurtful or smothering. Both types are abusive in nature.

It’s not the ops fault her Mil is dysfunctional, her own husband is both unable and perhaps even unwilling to assert his own self here due to his own fear, obligation and guilt.

Your mother is not doing either your son or you any favours by behaving as she is towards both of you.

My issue isn't she loves DC1 to much it's that the love is smothering and suffocating, it's like she seems to think DC1 is hers, or a replacement of her lost child, which DC1 isn't, they are their own person and I feel like MIL projects her passed child onto mine.

I get 9'weeks Is young and maybe I am jumping the gun on the relationship but people have commented about her taking very little interest in baby. So I know it's not just me thinking this. She literally ignores baby, even strangers seem to pay more attention than she does, she's literally unbothered, and I just compare how she was to when DC1 was born, she was all smiles and laughter, wanting to hold, take on walks etc and nothing this time round. I think the Dr has handled baby more than her.

I genuinely think she needs some sort of therapy, but I know she would refuse this! I also agree my mum doesn't help, but I don't vent to her a lot, we don't have a mega close relationship but she caught me on a day i was feel suffocated by it all and I broke down crying to her because I couldn't take it, I think she said her comment as it was a lot of information at once about MIL even though she had seen and heard some of the odd things she had done in the past.

I really appreciated everyone's comments though, I think deep down I know she will never change and it's us as a family that needs to set boundaries and stick to them, will try talk to husband tonight or tomorrow about it all!! x

@randommum82 I think you need to re-read the OP's original post again. Her mother in law isn't behaving a bit strange her behaviour is actually very concerning and disturbing.

With child 1 she will whisper things to and want to see 2/3/4 times a week, she won't tell child 1 off, will let them do what they want etc, this caused problems as child 1 only ever saw me as a bad person, the one who tells them off or doesn't let them have sweets 24/7 or fizzy drinks (child is 3!!) I spoke to my husband and said it needs to stop as our child is so nasty to me for no reason. She refers to herself as mummy instead of nanny sometimes which I can't help but feel is done purposely as she never does it if my husband is around

Whispers secrets to child

Wanted child 1 bedroom camera on her phone for her to view whenever.

That behaviour is very inappropriate and it is grooming. Here's the definition of it from the NSPCC website and it states "Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them." Although it is behaviour that is normally done by paedophiles, it isn't always sexual the mother in law's behaviour is emotional abuse and it is very damaging behaviour believe me.

Another interesting fact from the NSPCC webpage

Groomers might also try and isolate children from their friends and family, making them feel dependent on them and giving the groomer power and control over them. They might use blackmail to make a child feel guilt and shame or introduce the idea of 'secrets' to control, frighten and intimidate.

It's important to remember that children and young people may not understand they've been groomed. They may have complicated feelings, like loyalty, admiration, love, as well as fear, distress and confusion.

The OP's DH has mental health issues and is basically emotionally conditioned by his mother to do anything to please her so why should the OP expose her young child to this behaviour? If this was a friend doing it or a male relative people would be screaming abuse but because the mother in law has lost a child and whilst I have no doubt that it is incredibly devastating and probably not something you ever get over she's using that to manipulate the OP's DH to get access to their child for her own emotional needs and whilst completely ignoring her other grandchild, right now the kids won't remember this but the longer this behaviour is allowed to go on and the older the children get it will cause massive emotional problems because children do remember what's been done to them be it emotional or physical!!