A Covid family drama

[Syrah550]

My mother is a little bit narcissistic and has become rather right wing in her views since her 70's. She cares for my father, in his 90's who has suffered a stroke.

My sister and I have already said that we don't think it's a good idea for us to all spend Xmas together this year, mainly due to the risk to my elderly parents, particularly my father who is extremely frail.

My sister has a son who she's close to, who lives in another household, and I have a DH and baby. We have all been really careful this year due to my pregnancy and baby, and sister, me and DH all being asthmatic, and parents being elderly. We met them outside with the new baby in the summer, but since then they've only seen us on Zoom. We live 3 hrs away.

Anyway, Dsis and my view is we spend Xmas in our own households this year and not visit our parents. This was mainly to protect them and stay safe after all the hard graft we've put in this year. It seems crazy to throw that all away and meet indoors for hours breathing in the same air, just as we are about to get a vaccine.

(Today's rule announcement also complicates things as Dsis would want to see her son, as would my parents, and my DH also has his own family to think about).

Anyway my mother says we are all being "cruel", as she's only met her newest grandchild once and it's Christmas. She is furious that we are being so cautious. She says it's gone on long enough! She has refused to respond to messages since we had an initial conversation about it at the weekend. My father is frail and slow but he says that it should be up to "the children" what they want to do, and not up to my mother to dictate.

To be clear, DSis and I raised our concerns but said let us wait until we know more about the gov guidance and what the virus is doing. So we didn't clearly decide - we tried to have an open discussion.

I feel really sorry for my parents and having this year towards the end of their life has been so sad. My father has declined without as much stimulation and is horrible to watch. I feel sorry for my mother as caring is incredibly hard. But I think it's crazy to just say "sod it" and meet up. Plus my mother wouldn't shield for the two weeks beforehand if we asked them to- because she will do things like just nip to the shops, or whatever, and say it didn't count because she ran out of lettuce or something.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. But how on earth to communicate this to my mother? Or do I just accept she will be seething...?

Thanks @StrippedFridge you are right about that. We have contacted Age UK and the local council as well as a local charity offering support for stroke sufferers and their carers. Unfortunately my mother tends to reject all help and balked at the idea she might need emotional support, saying it was snowflake rubbish.

But now she is asking for something: a Christmas with company.

I'm with you OP. It's crazy to risk passing something on to your parents when they are highly likely to be vacinated in 2 months time. Still rubbish for your mum though. For those saying it's up to your parents to decide if they want to take the risk, I think it's also worth considering how you would feel if you did pass covid onto your parents.

Archbishop of Canterbury on Newsnight just now: If you love people, you will see them in a way that is safe, and it is possible...
I.e. don't take unnecessary risks and be a bit creative
Why not drive there and meet outside for a bit...?

I totally agree with you OP. Boris might deem it safe for my family to meet up with our elderly parents but I don’t.
Imagine the call a week later to say one of them has keeled over. Sod living with that guilt.

Give her a few days to calm down and maybe then suggest ways to make it special, present drop off, video calls online?

I think you are both using your father as an excuse here. You keep talking about all your “hard work” but what do you mean? Who are you exactly protecting? Yourselves? Your father? Your mother? You said your mother is likely to pop to the shops for lettuce so what you’re saying makes no sense. You and your family (DH, baby) are obviously being sensible and not popping to the shops so your chance of being Covid carriers is extremely unlikely. Where would you get it from if, as you say, you are doing lots of “hard work”. Your mother is not being careful and is encountering many strangers everyday? So she’s likely to give it to your father from somewhere else anyway. You going round for a few hours at Xmas is not going to change or influence that.
It sounds to me that what this is really about is a battle of wills between you and your mum because what you really don’t want is to listen to her right wing tirades on Christmas Day and you are using the Covid excuse to stay away from her.
You don’t actually like your own mother is what I’m reading from your post. That’s different to your self proclaimed “do gooder” if wanting to protect your father. I say do gooder because you are taking it upon yourself to decide for them. Your father has said he doesn’t mind if you come or not and your mother wants you there. If you truly are only interested in them and making them happy then you’d go then. As that’s what they’ve said they want. If what you really want is a passive aggressive fight with your elderly mother then carry on.

There are tests available now where you have the results in under an hour, they're basically like pregnancy tests where your sample is inserted and two lines mean positive.
Contact your local council or Public Health England and see if it would be possible to have on of these before your visit.
My 80 year old mum has just spent 5 weeks in hospital, not covid related, no visitors, staff not able to give her any time or attention, in essence solitary confinement. It was horrible. All she wants to do now is see family. We'll all be there at Christmas because it may be her last one, hopefully we can arrange these rapid tests beforehand for peace of mind.

Maybe your mum is pig sick of being a carer and has been excited to see her grandchild in what has been a very shitty year.
I think you sound quite selfish tbh. Invite them to stay for a couple of days or go there.

For me time with our elders is precious and to be balanced with the risks. Eg you can self isolate for 2 wks and as a pp said, you can have a Covid test before you see them. But if your DM really wants to see her grandchild - you should do your best to facilitate that.

I only came on here to discuss how to speak to my mother about it, not to ask if my DSis and I were making the right decision. We feel confident we are, as many pp have agreed. It's daft to throw away the sacrifices we have all made when there is light at the end of the tunnel now.

It's not as simple as saying "just go". Aside from the risks to my father, and also to the 3 asthmatics in the family I've mentioned, as with lots of people we haven't even touched upon the issue of who to pick to be in your bubble of 3 households. DH's mum is ready and eager to see us as well, along with his various family households. I'm sure everyone's having to make all these tough decisions. But my mother isn't helping and it hasn't even occurred to her that DH's family, and DSis's son's household are another aspect of consideration.

The op who said it sounds like there are issues with my mother - yes I've already said she is narcissistic. My DSis and I struggle with her a great deal, but they are still our parents and we don't want to see them end up in ICU. And as Donald Trump proved, narcissists don't deal well with pandemics.

Above all, I think the pp who talked about the guilt is spot on. Although I've been very careful, I was pinged by the app last month and had to isolate, due to a BT engineer who fixed our internet who must have tested positive. I didn't have symptoms but could have caught it. These things can happen to even the most careful people. How would my DSis or I feel if a couple of days after Xmas my parents fell ill?

I'm shocked by the cavalier approach of so many. The scientists know that this relaxation will result in more deaths. All we can do is try to ensure they're not in our own families.

It does sound like you don’t like her much OP and this is a handy excuse to not see her 🥴

I would consider the possibility of self-isolating in advance of Christmas so you could visit, given the age of your dad, as it's possibly his last Christmas, Covid or not. But obviously if the maternal relationship is that difficult, it's not worth it.

@justanotherneighinparadise this might be a mind boggle for you, but it is possible to not have a close relationship with one's parents whilst at the same time not wanting them to come to any harm.

I’m in a similar situation to you.
I think you are being very sensible.
It’s a difficult decision but it’s better to be safe than sorry.
Imagine if the worst happened that would be harder to live with afterwards.

[quote Syrah550]@justanotherneighinparadise this might be a mind boggle for you, but it is possible to not have a close relationship with one's parents whilst at the same time not wanting them to come to any harm. [/quote]
Which is pretty much what I said

Nope. You said it was just a "handy excuse" not to see them.

Well it kind of is isn’t is. You don’t get on with your mother, you’d rather not see her but you don’t wish her any harm. I have a similar dynamic with a member of my family. Not a fan but wish no harm on them. It’s not that unusual and there’s no need to feel defensive about it.

You're missing the point. The issue is whether or not I would choose to see them, regardless of their relationship with me - and the answer is I don't think it's safe for any families with elderly relatives (unless they live alone in which case you would have to find a solution).

[quote Syrah550]@QuentinWinters it's not "straightforward". As I said DSis son lives in another household, and my DH has various family households. [/quote]
But are your DH's family as old and as (sorry) possibly near the end?

If your arguments are to protect them, then it's not your decision in my view.
If it's to protect your family then you must do what you must do.

But it’s a handy excuse isn’t it? Like if we’re going to look pragmatically at this your father hasn’t got long left in this world and your mother has pretty much begged to see you. So if you had a better relationship with them nothing would keep you from being with them. Even the government have said it’s okay!!

But you’d rather not. That’s fine too. Just own your truth. Don’t look for justification from Mumsnet to sanction your choices.

people are prepared to try and protect people in their 90s by not seeing them - what are people living for then?

In your 90s you are well, well over the average life expectancy in the UK -

I feel for your mum - once I'm in my 80s or 90s - Ill be enjoying the moments not living for the future.

I understand with the vaccine nearby it seems foolish to take risks - but most people in the UK don't have covid - even in high risk areas prevelance is not so extreme that you would be more likely than not to pass it on.

Can't you mitigate risks? Be careful about mixing in the ten days leading up to seeing them - stay in a cheap hotel, meet in the house with doors and windows open.

The govt own adverts point out that fresh air through windows reduces trasnmission risk by 70 per cent. There is a lot you can do to keep safe.

If the OP’s mother was demanding to see the grandchild on Christmas Day any other year People would be saying that she was a narcissist and that OP should do what she wants as it’s her Christmas as well.

And people need to stop playing the “it could be his last Christmas” emotional blackmail card. Yes, it could be. It could be any of our last Christmas. I have a serious heart condition and it could be my last Christmas, or I could be on the transplant list by this time next year thinking that if a heart doesn’t become available then that might be my last Christmas. Given the OP’s father doesn’t actually care about Christmas if they see him on the day is irrelevant. Clearly another day would work for him just as well what with him not caring about Christmas n all...

As for the comments saying “he’s 90 so will be dead soon anyway,” while that may be the case, there’s a difference between knowing that someone is likely not to live for many more years and knowingly and deliberately bringing risk factors into their life which will hasten the process...

OP it’s ok not to want to spend Christmas with your mum. Any other year it would be perfectly ok to not want to spend Christmas with her and you would have the support of MN. Don’t let yourself be emotionally blackmailed into thinking you’re wrong.

I'm with Joan Bakewell. And with whoever it was on Radio 4 this morning who talked about "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" - the vaccine is on its way, if we wait a few more months then we can meet up safely.

I wonder if you might e.g. consider setting up some kind of Alexa-style device at yours and theirs so that you can "drop in" on one another more easily? The smaller devices are not massively expensive. You could offer that as an alternative that you've come up with, as a kind of compromise?

My mother sounds very similar to your mum. My dad has cancer so we are not visiting this year as he is in the middle of treatment and we don't want to add any risks. My mum thinks we are overreacting etc. But I'm sure we have made the right decision. With treatment the drs are positive that they can remove the cancer and my dad will live many more years I don't see the point of risking that for 1 Christmas. Sadly I doubt my mother will ever see it that way. I have no advice OP but it's so difficult.