Intimacy has broken down

[Thebakingman12]

Hello, im looking for some advice please. im a man, ive been in a relationship with my wife for nearly 11 years, we moved in after 4 years and weve been married for coming up to 4 years. Our intimacy and sex life has lowered to the point where i dont know what to do anymore.

My wife and i were friends before we got romantically involved. Our relationship has never been the fireworks and hot passion type of relationship, however we had a sex a couple of times a week, showed each other love an affection and everything was good. my wife is quite a shy person with a low sex drive, and because of that sex and intimacy has 95% of the time always been initiated by me. She doesnt like public affection, Shes not the type to wack on sexy underwear to entice me or prance around the house naked or come onto me in any way so if we have sex its mostly because i want sex and then i come on to her.

Ive obviously known this since day 1, and for about 6 years it never used to bother me. But as of about 2 or 3 years ago it started to grate and wear on me, i started to feel a little bit like shed lost interest in me or a bit like it was something to do with me, or something i was doing wrong, or that i was no longer satisfying her. So we sat down and i asked her if there was a problem, i explained how i was feeling and she basically said there was nothing wrong, that's just how she is but she will try to be understanding. It improved for a short time then went back to how it was. We had the same conversation again a few more times over the next year or 2 and again it improved for a short time but then returned to how it was.

We had a baby just over 3 years ago and since then its gone downhill even more. I know the commitments a child brings, and how it impacts on freetime, but we barely kiss, barely touch, i feel like its always me thats trying to initiate any form of physical contact. I get a peck on the lips before bed and a peck on the lips before she leaves for work. Its got the point where im really struggling. Im sad everyday to the point where i cry every night. Its got to the point now where most of the time i try to initiate sex i get turned down for one excuse or another and its really knocking my confidence, my personality but most of all its making me question my marriage. She has a stressful job and works long hours. She also does alot for our family and within the house. So i do understand that she can be tired and stressed etc.

We sat down a few weeks ago for a frank conversation and she told me that she loves me, she wants me, she fancies me and she's happy with me, but she has no interest in sex at the minute. She said it's nothing to do with me, its just how she feels and she doesn't know why.

I love my wife more than i can express, which is why i get so upset by it. I dont want to split up and i dont want to go elsewhere, i just want more love together, im trying to be understanding of her wants and needs but how can i just sit here miserable and wait for her interest to come back. What if it never does? Am i overthinking it? Am i being selfish? I feel lost.

Thanks for any replies.
GM

@user1481840227

Not at all, just trying to point out that his priorities are a bit skewed if he feels that his marriage is worth dispensing with because he has limited sex at the moment.

His children are young, it appears both partners are still very attracted to on another.
It's worth saving.

Also there is nothing wrong with a wife, putting on another hat on and being a 'whore' in the bedroom, thats how wives operate.

It's about changing her frame of mind, I'm sure she loves sex, it just needs the right conditions.

@TrailingLobelias

I didn't say 'making you a whore'

Why can't you be a whore in the bedroom, why can't I call my husband a whore in the bedroom. It's a word and it doesn't necessarily mean paid sex worker.

And there is nothing wrong with the op wanting to have the most fullfilling sex life, enhancing his relationship and bonding their union further.

It can describe a certain enthusiasm in the bedroom, just as swinging off the chandalier can infer.

What I'm saying is many men have the opportunity to have amazing sex in the bedroom if everthing is right outside of the bedroom.

I don't want to be unhelpful but Mumsnet is full of sexist responses and this thread has really excelled on that front.
Threads like this really annoy me as they should be focusing on empathising and helping the op to understand the issue, I don't see why people are focusing on the assumption that you don't do much around the house and not trying to help with the actual problem described quite clearly.
As for my suggestion it would be post again But flip it so you are the wife and your partner is the husband, and wait for a higher percentage of helpful advice.
For my advice in seriousness i think it's a communication issue and would need counseling to help get the issues out. With this kind of thing there can be so many things each person doesn't want to say, or issues from childhood about attitudes, and it really helps both of you to unpick it all.
But after all that, some people do have sensory issues or other neuro divergences, but at the end of it all, better understanding of each other is the key.
Good luck, i hope you can feel more positive from a glimmer of hope.

Stop asking, she had the ick

I would say that if she wasn’t that into sex to start with then it won’t get any better no matter what you do

I don’t know if you said how old you are but do you want to go into your 40s 50s feeling like this is it for the rest of your life

But the male position and female position are not the same.

Statistically men have more downtime than women and women take on more of the unpaid work (housework, childcare, other caring responsibilities). So it is relevant, and not sexist but realistic, to look at factors that could mean the woman is tired (and likely somewhat resentful of) her partner, which will in turn affect her interest in sex.

What stands out to me with the male posters is that they believe sex is a separate part of the relationship that is not intertwined with the emotional aspect of the relationship.

Depends.. .. do you want more sex from your wives, if so listen to women.

[quote Onthedunes]@user1481840227

Not at all, just trying to point out that his priorities are a bit skewed if he feels that his marriage is worth dispensing with because he has limited sex at the moment.

His children are young, it appears both partners are still very attracted to on another.
It's worth saving.

Also there is nothing wrong with a wife, putting on another hat on and being a 'whore' in the bedroom, thats how wives operate.

It's about changing her frame of mind, I'm sure she loves sex, it just needs the right conditions.[/quote]
He hasn't said he wants to dispense with it.
He clearly said in the OP I love my wife more than i can express, which is why i get so upset by it. I dont want to split up and i dont want to go elsewhere, i just want more love together, im trying to be understanding of her wants and needs but how can i just sit here miserable and wait for her interest to come back. What if it never does?

He's feeling emotions and unhappiness over this and that is allowed! He's worried about what that means for the future and that's allowed too!

She said she fancies him. We don't know that that is true. I do know that i've seen many threads on here over the years where a woman posts and hasn't wanted sex in a long time and doesn't think she'll want it again and she reassures her partner that she fancies him but doesn't really know if she does!

And putting another hat on and being a whore in the bedroom isn't how wives operate! Some women/wives/mothers love the whore label and play up to the kink and good on them! Others enjoy slow, sweet, intimate sex only and good on them too....none of them are are whores in any way no matter what kind of sex they have so to insinuate that that that is what the OP wanted is wrong. Sounds like he just wants to be intimate with his wife so there's no need to label it as something like that!

Also, it's that classic mistake of thinking you'll be OK with a mismatch with your partner over something in the early part of a relationship, and as time wears on, becoming more dissatisfied and less able to tolerate it. Op's wife has always had a lower sex drive, he knew that, and however many years down the line it's now a big issue to him. Happens to a lot of people. The first flushes of love wear off and there you are, incompatibilities exposed.

@category12

But the male position and female position are not the same.

Statistically men have more downtime than women and women take on more of the unpaid work (housework, childcare, other caring responsibilities). So it is relevant, and not sexist but realistic, to look at factors that could mean the woman is tired (and likely somewhat resentful of) her partner, which will in turn affect her interest in sex.

That's all completely true.

Those factors can and do affect the womans interest in sex...but the truth is that once the resentments set in and women lose interest in sex with their partner because of them there generally is no way to fix that. That's the truth. A man could start doing everything he should have done at the time before the resentments set in and it still generally won't fix it.

but I feel like any time men come on here seeking advice there is a lack of honesty about the subject on here (and in society) and he's told to go off and do some housework and maybe she'll want to have sex with him again.

Who is that helping really?

I think it's a wonderful topic for people to pay attention to before they are in a relationship or in the early days when they want to ensure it stays strong...but once the resentments set in then there's generally no way back.

but I feel like any time men come on here seeking advice there is a lack of honesty about the subject on here (and in society) and he's told to go off and do some housework and maybe she'll want to have sex with him again.
Who is that helping really?

Well, it really depends how far it's gone, but I think there can be a way back, and if it is the situation where the guy has been lazy and left things to his partner, actually acknowledging that fault and working to correct it is a good step in sorting it out. Actions need to accompany words.

It also helps him in that in future relationships should his fall apart, hopefully he won't repeat the same mistake of not taking on his share.

Threads like this really annoy me as they should be focusing on empathising and helping the op to understand the issue, I don't see why people are focusing on the assumption that you don't do much around the house and not trying to help with the actual problem described quite clearly.

Completely agree. I don't know who the posters think they are helping! The men who post might think ok I won't try to initiate sex for months now and maybe she'll magically become attracted to me again. It won't happen...and the elephant in the room is still there between the couple...and all of the associated tension! and when he realises that backing off didn't help in any way then of course more tension will build up again. It's not a pleasant situation for either partner to be living in..and at the end of the day there are real people involved in the posters situation...telling him to go off and do some housework is not helping anyone in any way with this situation!!

I haven't only advised him to do housework either, I advised him to work with her and take sex off the table for a month or so, and try to rebuild their physical intimacy without the pressure of it leading to sex. As it just doesn't work to try to go from 0-60 for most women. So I think it's unfair to characterise the thread as only having been about getting men to do housework.

try to rebuild their physical intimacy

How can you rebuild it if it wasn't even there anyway?

Their relationship doesn't sound passionate even pre DC...I can't see how you can get back what you never had.

*Well, it really depends how far it's gone, but I think there can be a way back, and if it is the situation where the guy has been lazy and left things to his partner, actually acknowledging that fault and working to correct it is a good step in sorting it out. Actions need to accompany words.

It also helps him in that in future relationships should his fall apart, hopefully he won't repeat the same mistake of not taking on his share.*

I agree that there's a point where it can be turned around.....but that is before the resentments have set in completely or before the intimacy has pretty much completely gone from the relationship....and men don't generally post here until the intimacy has pretty much gone from the relationship. I don't know one woman who has ever been able to get any desire back for their partner once they are at the point of no touching and no affection/intimacy, just the obligatory peck on the lips.
At that point the aversion to having sex with their partner is so strong that they simply can't do it or it takes a lot of emotional prepping to force themselves to do it and get it over with every so often....even though even having sex once a month could cut the tension a lot and make their partner happy they still struggle to force themselves to do it.

I also agree that learning lessons from a relationship where that has occurred can hopefully help them to avoid the same situation in future....but again when they post on here these men are often told to just STFU and get over their needs and pull their weight at home. It's just encouraging them to stay in relationships where there is a huge elephant in the room and it's kicking the can further down the road. I don't see who it's helping in the immediate relationship that they're posting about!!

I HATE the idea of women forcing themselves to have sex with their partners when they don't want to. I've been there but it was a different situation. I hated it and it has left me with a lot of sexual trauma.

I just wish there was more honestly in these situations for these womens own sakes! Of course many of the relationships would end if there was complete honesty so I can understand why they don't want to be honest. Often they still love their husbands and wish that they did want to have sex with them! but unfortunately they don't! I just think that the way people respond to the men on here who post about this doesn't really help in any way...best case scenario he might not try to initiate sex again for a while....but the can is just kicked down the road!

Welcome to mumsnet....oh, your a man! Here, that means your no longer a human being with needs, we must treat you like crap and not tolerate a single emotion from you, however if a women posted this things would be different!

It sucks op, house work help probably won’t improve it either, she obviously has a different sex drive to you, it’s rubbish but happens to the majority of people I imagine? You either suck it up until you can bear no more or leave really. Shit but true!

@formerbabe

try to rebuild their physical intimacy

How can you rebuild it if it wasn't even there anyway?

Their relationship doesn't sound passionate even pre DC...I can't see how you can get back what you never had.

Well, I'm making the assumption that they used to kiss, cuddle and have affectionate touching in their relationship - I'm not talking about fireworks. That's the rebuilding I meant.

He can't expect sex if they barely touch the rest of the time. OP says they are down to the occasional peck on the lips. Presumably that has not always been the case, otherwise why would they have married?

[quote user1481840227]@LilyWater
She didn't make it sound like sex was an object in a vending machine that she's refusing to dispense.

It is absolutely 100% fine if she does not want to have sex with him ever again. That is her choice. But being in a partnership means that she should be honest with him so that he can make an informed decision about whether he wants to continue in the relationship anymore.

The pp correctly said that leaving it at "I don't know" doesn't help anyone here and it's not fair on her partner.

Perhaps she is a rare one who genuinely doesn't know but we have seen threads on here time and time again from the female perspective where she does know...she knows that she doesn't want to have sex with her partner ever again and she won't be honest with him about it because she's afraid of the consequences. That's not a partnership![/quote]
You're assuming that the wife is lying that she doesn't know. The only person who knows how she's feeling is the wife herself.

As others have said, lessening of libido is not uncommon after kids and this can be for a variety of reasons, including the sheer time factor of kids/household consuming your life, other resentment in the relationship, the pill etc. The OP himself said that the wife has a stressful job with long hours, has a very young child, and does so much round the house. Almost any woman in that circumstance would have a lessened libido!

The OP doesn't want to break up his family and is doing the right thing trying to reach out to other women to better understand the situation. Making changes to make the partnership much more equal will massively help the relationship, regardless of sex. And for many women, men continuing to do this long term, can change how they feel about the man for the better, and will naturally lead to being more open and having more literal and mental time for sex. The pill can also be a big factor (unbeknownst to the wife) which is why I and a PP have pointed it out.

@category12

I haven't only advised him to do housework either, I advised him to work with her and take sex off the table for a month or so, and try to rebuild their physical intimacy without the pressure of it leading to sex. As it just doesn't work to try to go from 0-60 for most women. So I think it's unfair to characterise the thread as only having been about getting men to do housework.

It's not just about this thread. There are several posts on here a month from men saying the same thing and the threads go the same way....so for me I'm characterising the general replies to all of these threads from men.

To be honest they just upset me because I feel like some of these men are going to go off and probably start trying to follow that advice and go off and do housework and try to take on some of that labour and then his partner will feel more pressure to have sex with him because he's trying so hard...but the reality is that she doesn't want to!!

Completely agree about trying to create some intimacy with sex taken completely off the table. Obviously that requires time and both parties being on board.....but if they try that and it doesn't make a difference then he needs to have a serious think about whether he wants to stay in the relationship or if he's even able to stay in this relationship without this causing more issues in the future!

I in no way feel that the op has not got a valid problem that is affecting him.
Men seem to become very defensive also when women give their advice on this subject.
Women do know the importance of how sex keeps a man connected, feeling loved and desired, we are saying it's not just a question of sex drive.

I don't buy the theory of, if she doesn't want sex she's frigid.

It's good he's trying to understand what steps he can take to bump start his sex life, but from a female perpective what jumps out is her tiredness from bringing young children up, maybe some resentment that is not being revealed and also the point where she says she wants him, fancies him, is happy with him but has no interest in sex at the moment.

To me when other women have felt like this with no underlying gripe, it can be that they are feeling insecure about themselves or their bodies, feeling undesirable, a hard thing for a woman to admit.

Your right communication is the key for the op and for the wider discussion between men and women on the whole. There are too many variables on this subject but taking offence stops communication and debate in its tracks and the pulling up of language in that debate is just semantics.

@Onthedunes

I in no way feel that the op has not got a valid problem that is affecting him. Men seem to become very defensive also when women give their advice on this subject. Women do know the importance of how sex keeps a man connected, feeling loved and desired, we are saying it's not just a question of sex drive.

I don't buy the theory of, if she doesn't want sex she's frigid.

It's good he's trying to understand what steps he can take to bump start his sex life, but from a female perpective what jumps out is her tiredness from bringing young children up, maybe some resentment that is not being revealed and also the point where she says she wants him, fancies him, is happy with him but has no interest in sex at the moment.

To me when other women have felt like this with no underlying gripe, it can be that they are feeling insecure about themselves or their bodies, feeling undesirable, a hard thing for a woman to admit.

Your right communication is the key for the op and for the wider discussion between men and women on the whole. There are too many variables on this subject but taking offence stops communication and debate in its tracks and the pulling up of language in that debate is just semantics.

Too right that some men can become very defensive.

To be honest, so much of the culture nowadays is so sexualised. Women's bodies are used to sell everything under the sun and we're literally bombarded with these images day after day. It's the norm on an unconscious level, to see women as sexual objects and the expectation is that they are there to put out and be sexually available, and if they're not, there's something terribly wrong with them. This goes for women themselves too, as seen by some posters on here.

Sex is a normal part of any marriage but it's something that is mutually given, not mutually taken, and it's normal for it to wax and wane in a long term relationship, even with ones with previously high sex drives, especially one with the almighty modern day pressures that families are under. Sex is such an individual thing and the OP knew from the beginning how his wife was like - the biggest thing that's changed is actually him in terms of his expectations of her. If they wanted sex back to pre-child levels it's obvious that they need to wait until the child-rearing becomes less intense and he needs be as actively involved in the household as she is, not just "help" (which assumes it's her primary responsibility). Also keep communication channels with each other honest and open.

OP, have you actually outright asked her what you could do to make the relationship and family life more satisfying for her? As I'm sure you know, her needs are just as important as yours.

@user1481840227

The op actually said 'but most of all it is making me question my marriage'

I said 'if he feels his marriage is worth dispensing of.

To tell you the truth when women read that, alarm bells start ringing thinking the op is considering looking outside the marriage for sex.
ie; the cheater's script.

I hope not, thats why we are responding not just saying if her sex drive was low it's never gonna be great, get out.

Reading these responses and want to weep at some of them ffs. OP, I’ve been where you are and it is a desperately lonely frustrating place. I’ve also been where your wife is now and I can tell you it was 100% tied to the stresses of having young children and trying to keep a home together. The hormones that made me want to do it just weren’t there and it feels just as crushing in a different way, that I couldn’t bring myself to feel sexual. Also, for my husband sex is a release, whereas for me it’s something I have to put my self forward and really ‘feel’ to enjoy. It’s not a release valve for me and I need to feel connected to DH before I can do it without it feeling soulless.

Realistically you can accept no sex for this period of your lives and work on keeping intimacy and touch going with no pressure for sex, whilst making sure you take on your half of the mental and physical load in the partnership. Or you can leave your wife and daughter who is barely out of infancy (the most difficult part) for the possibility of more sex.

Perhaps when your wife has time away from your DD to do her own thing, you can watch her reawaken and find her spark again with someone else? Or, if this is your worst nightmare because you adore her (as your post said) accept that this is probably a phase and it will get better, as long as you keep some physical contact and communication going.
When you got together, the sex may not have been as frequent as you desired, but it was obviously enough for you to stay with her at the time.
I do feel desperately sorry for you as I know it’s such a hopeless feeling, but I feel like you shouldn’t throw away your family over this. From everything I’ve experienced after having young children, desire waxes and wanes in both men and women and it’s a fortunate and unusual couple who are always in sync. If you keep talking and keep the laughter and affection there you will get through it.

[quote Onthedunes]@user1481840227

The op actually said 'but most of all it is making me question my marriage'

I said 'if he feels his marriage is worth dispensing of.

To tell you the truth when women read that, alarm bells start ringing thinking the op is considering looking outside the marriage for sex.
ie; the cheater's script.

I hope not, thats why we are responding not just saying if her sex drive was low it's never gonna be great, get out.[/quote]
He actually said the other thing too :)

Surely it's normal to question your marriage in times like this, when you reach a point where something is deeply affecting you then wouldn't it be normal to question your marriage? He is worried that this will never change. If he feels like this now then wouldn't it be normal to question his marriage and see if he is actually able to cope with this for the rest of his life if it doesn't change? I see questioning your marriage as thoughts to work through that occur as a result of something that's going on, not a plan to throw it away or dispense with it.

He already said that he doesn't want to go elsewhere so I didn't assume that that is what he was saying.

There have been other men who posted in the past who have said they had considered looking outside the marriage...so all we can do is go by what the posters themselves say.

You want a bit of intimacy and occasionally sex with your wife , I don’t think that makes you a sex pest by any means .
If she had a very low libido to start off with , it may be that how things are now , are as good as it is going to get . Sex and intimacy is part of a healthy relationship, if you don’t have that then basically you’re just mates living together . You’ve talked it over and over with her , you can try doing more around the house . In fact I reckon you could hire a nanny a chef and a chauffeur but I still don’t think things would change .
It’s up for you to decide weather you want to stay in a relationship where you’re not getting your needs met , either of you , as I’m sure she’s not 100% happy either .
Most guys in your situation wouldn’t come here looking for advice on what they could do to improve things , they'd just find someone else to shag . So you can’t ask for help without being slated and you can’t cheat ( obviously) you’re damned either way