New man worries...

[TheLaundryNeedsTidying]

I recently started dating someone. He's very nice and sweet and affectionate. Not OTT. I fancy him - he seems to fancy me well enough.

But I'm riddled with doubts and insecurities. I know some will say that I'm not ready for dating - maybe that's true.

This man has travelled extensively and lived in other countries through work. He's good looking and I know he had relationships in these other countries.

I'm around the same age as him (both 'middle aged'), a little overweight and pasty.

I know (because I've seen photos) that his exes were quite often younger, very slim and very attractive - lots of photos of them on beaches in bikinis. I've never had the body for that even when I was younger and slimmer.

I can't for the life of me see what he sees in me.

My last boyfriend was a while ago and he didn't compliment me, seemed to he embarrassed by me and pretty much implied that he wanted to be with someone half my age, slim, beautiful, sexy and the sort of woman he felt he should be with. We ended up splitting up because being with him was making me feel bad about myself.

I can remember how i used to feel about and see myself before him. Which was never great but I did believe I was attractive enough.

I find it hard to relax with this man now and I'm always conscious of how I look naked - whether my thighs are too big, my bum is too big, my belly too big, my boobs too droopy. I try to behave how I used to when I thought I was ok but I'm just not feeling it at all.

I feel like I've forgotten how to be a girlfriend. I'm so measured in everything I say and do I don't appear needy or insecure.

He mentioned a female friend last night and then, because of what he said, reassured me that she wasn't an ex or anything. It hadn't occured to me that she might be and I'm not really prone to jealousy so old me is in there somewhere.

I'm not jealous but I do feel inadequate and insecure. I was walking around his place last night in a longish (covered my bum) t shirt and knickers and it got a reaction (ahem) but I cant help but think that he was looking at me wishing my legs were slimmer and my stomach flatter.

Is it possible that he finds me attractive even though I'm very far removed from what he's used to? I'm not really in his, or their, league at all.

I suppose I'm also aware that his physical compliments are about my face or my skin or my feet and not really about my body other than saying my bum is 'cute'. (I think my bum is a nice shape but there's too much of it!) And I can see why because there's not really anything to compliment.

I suppose i don't really compliment him either because my ex trained me out of it and now I just don't think about it.

I attribute my lack of long term relationships, and the lack of opportunity for one, to my body.

Op in the nicest possible way, how do you expect others to find you attractive when you can't see it yourself?

I find a lot of people attractive. From David Beckham to James Corden. Nothing is in spite of anything, it's them that I'm attracted to.

Have you considered counselling? You need to learn to love yourself

I attribute my lack of long term relationships, and the lack of opportunity for one, to my body.

I'm pretty astounded by this. You're only a little over your "ideal" weight, so unless your body is covered in warts and scales I really can't see how on earth any man would physically recoil etc?!

I'm sorry your experience to date has been so negative OP but I really think you should take this man at face value. He clearly finds you attractive, he's demonstrated that quite clearly!

Oh OP. I know exactly how you feel but am trying to be less like it. We're whole people, the body is just part of us and not solely/mostly what we're judged by- the right guy will love you as a whole person.

We're also showing our age by wanting smaller bums. Big bums are all the rage now and women actually try to get bigger ones.

Basically, I'm not what they want. I have no real trouble attracting them initially because my face is ok. Every man I've dated wanted to see me again so my company isn't bad. It falls apart when they see me naked or after a few months when it gets to the point of deciding if this is a relationship with legs or not.

But you're making a strangely definite sounding connection. After a few months is when most people decide if the relationship has legs or not - regardless of the factors they consider. So you've just been with people who, for whatever reason, haven't seen a long term future with you after dating for a few months - you've absolutely no way of knowing if that's because of how you look when naked...

Sorry that was meant to say...

But you're making a strangely definite sounding connection between your naked body and people ending a relationship with you.

It's quite often me who ends the relationship because that's when their mask starts to drop and they start to reveal how they really feel about my body.

@TheLaundryNeedsTidying

It's quite often me who ends the relationship because that's when their mask starts to drop and they start to reveal how they really feel about my body.

I say this gently but it's clear from the outside that this is a huge body image issue from your side and may not have much of any grounding in the reality of the situation.

Of course not everyone will find your body type attractive, of course your body type may make you more or less attractive to different people - that's life for everyone - but the amount of 'blame' you allocate to your body is so unhealthy you need to look into some therapy specifically to tackle that

I say this gently but it's clear from the outside that this is a huge body image issue from your side and may not have much of any grounding in the reality of the situation

I agree, I do have huge body image issues.

But previous boyfriends have said they were surprised i was so happy to walk around naked in front of them. I couldn't 'fake it till I make it' any more if I tried.

I never apologise for myself. I think that if someone doesn't find me attractive, they can go and find someone they do. A couple of times they have but most of the time, they just let me know that it's not a body they like and I dumped them. But its clearly taking its toll on how i feel about myself.

I've been told I have a 'cute' face, fanny and feet and smooth skin a couple of times - so I accept that. And I know I look younger than my years. I'm not completely negative about myself. But my body? Nothing. It's the elephant in the room.

the amount of 'blame' you allocate to your body is so unhealthy

When I was younger, I used to think that I would need to date someone partially sighted/blind so that they wouldn't be able to see me or see what they were missing out on in others.

Then I found mumsnet and believed it was confidence and that all bodies can be beautiful and all that. I spent a lot of time working on myself, lost weight, joined the gym, and became really confident in myself before dating again. I was single for several years.

Then I found that men didn't really see me any differently and it wasn't enough. i know some men are idiots but for them all to feel like this eventually..?

I've pretty much talked myself into breaking up with my new man because I don't really want to stick around until that begins again if I'm honest. Or, at least, I've disable my emotion chip so I'm not hurt when it does. But its all a bit hollow and pointless then. I'd rather he just went and found someone else without the preamble of dating me first.

I don't see how therapy would help. I used to watch Gok Wan's How to look good naked. Remember that? In the hope that it would make me feel better. But it was always obvious that they were attractive women who couldn't see their own beauty. Not women with unattractive bodies in the first place.

OP you are the problem here, sorry, not your body. Get some counselling for goodness sake.

I don't see how therapy would help. I used to watch Gok Wan's How to look good naked. Remember that? In the hope that it would make me feel better. But it was always obvious that they were attractive women who couldn't see their own beauty. Not women with unattractive bodies in the first place.

I think the fact Gok Wan didn't make you feel better is a silly reason to dismiss counselling! It's worth a go surely? If it doesn't help then fine, at least you've tried. But this is sabotaging not just your love life but your wider life - confidence, self image, happiness, self worth... you can't go on like this and refuse to explore avenues like counselling surely? Isn't it worth trying?

Gosh. Do you not know other women who are built like you or bigger and have partners ? You can’t possibly think only young slim women can maintain a relationship? Because that’s what you’re saying, you can’t sustain a relationship because you’re not young or slim enough, so logically that would then apply to every woman.

I don’t know where you’re finding these men, but I can assure you they are in the minority, men in general don’t have a relationship with a woman for several months then decide her body isn’t good enough so they need to dump her.

I think you need some help, you’ve got some major body image issues and your thought process is totally irrational. And you have either weirdly found a string of men who have issues also, or you’ve been digging for something that was not there ans then used it as a reason to get out.

I don't believe every man you've met is repulsed by your body. It's highly unlikely. People are all shapes and sizes and many of them have partners. Unless you have some major deformity you're not telling us about?

I can't help but thinking you are projecting this on to them. You now want to break with the new man, thinking he will end it anyway sooner or later, without any evidence to back this up.

What they might be thinking from though, is your lack of self worth and insecurity - these aren't attractive features.

I agree with PP that you should seriously consider counselling.

'Running ' from, not 'thinking'.

Ok well I can't relay every conversation, every side look, every 'lighthearted' comment.

I don't look for it - or at least i didnt used to. I'm on high alert nowadays though.

From the boys who told me I was fat as an 8 stone teenager, to the men who have laughed at me, to the men who told me they were confident i wouldn't cheat because I wasnt attractive enough, to the men who were reassured by me saying I was slimmer when I was younger (as though that gave me higher currently now), to the men who commented that I probably couldn't wear x, y or a clothes because they wouldn't suit my body, to the men who just werent bothered about losing me because better was always just around the corner...

I haven't ever dated anyone who commented positively on my body. They've either been negative, damned with faint praise or just not said anything at all.

Every time I hear it, I know what it means.

I tell myself that not all men are like that, that other women who arent 'perfect' are loved etc. But its makes no difference. At some point, the negative comments come. Or the huge vacuum of nothingness.

It’s just very odd op. I don’t know where you’re finding all these men. One or two arseholes maybe. But not every one throughout your life. You are not fat, you’re smaller than average, you’re a normal woman, so how you have succeeded in finding so many abusive men, and all abusive in the exact same manner, is just very very unusual.

I don’t know if there is anything any of us can say, because for every man you get involved with from your teen years to abuse you in the same way is not something many people will ever have heard of.

Are you not open to even trying some counselling OP?

No compliments or appreciative comments during sex, no stroking or caressing or touching beyond the obvious. With of them. And some of them have obviously actively avoided touching me.

I know it's not my imagination because i can think of one boyfriend when I was 18 who didn't criticise me like this and one a few years ago who made me feel genuinely desirable. But other than that...

I think I look slimmer when clothed. I think it's a shock to see how unattractive I am when I'm not. I think their expectation is so incongruous with the reality it's a 'shock'.

These are men I've met in different ways - at the pub, through hobbies, through friends, online dating and from a variety of backgrounds etc. I don't have a single 'type' and have, on occasions, dated against my type to try and avoid it. Hasn't made any difference.

Are you not open to even trying some counselling OP?

I've tried it before for body image/confidence/self esteem. It didn't help.

It was suggested i did the usual self esteem boosting stuff (which I do), wearing more make up and dressing more attractively (which i did), asking me if i thought other people were too big/unattractive to be desirable (I don't), asking me if I hold other people (inc men) to the same standards i hold myself (I don't) etc etc

While you are busy concentrating on if you are good enough for him, you are neglecting to do your 'due diligence' on if he is a suitable match for you. This is a way to end up in a toxic relationship, because the only people who can cope with someone who needs constant external validation are toxic ones.

It isn't fair to expect another person to validate your body. There is nothing he can say or do that would make you feel secure - because you are your own harshest critic.

Just because he has never dated someone your shape before does not mean he views you as unattractive. I never dated a hairy man -until I did. I always assumed I'd find hairy bodies repulsive, but because it was him I loved the hair. And now I love hairy men in general.

I suspect he had never dated a woman with a mum-tum and saggy boobs (he was 20s, I was late 40s). He made it very plain throughout the relationship (and afterwards) that he found me extremely attractive.

We are so much more than our bodies. When you find a person attractive, that leaks out to encompass all sorts of stuff you might not have said was your 'type on paper'.

It's really unfair to make another person responsible for solving your own body issues. That is why the suggestion you are not ready to date is sound.

It sounds like you need more informed therapy. The way to increase self-esteem is not through wearing make-up etc. It's about looking at and questioning the harsh inner critic. It's about getting serious about loving yourself - to the point where someone could dump you saying, 'sorry, you don't turn me on', and you could walk away being fine with that (maybe just a little bit stung, you know, ego), because you know it's nothing wrong with you, it's just one of those mismatch things.

It's hard, I know it's hard. I have had abnormal eating for pretty much my entire life because of the messages of society and diet culture. And then one day I had enough of hating my body. I'm still not great with food, but I'm way more forgiving of myself and my body.

Look around. I look at my sister, who is morbidly obese - and insecure - but who has never had any problem with men. She's married to a fitness freak muscular man, and he loves the bones of her. The reason she has never had a problem with men is that her insecurities all centre on what other women think of her. So she has problems making female friends, and she sabotages the friendships she does have.

We create our own reality. If you don't love yourself, why would you accept love from someone else? This is what it comes down to. Until you can love yourself (which is where genuine self-confidence and self-esteem comes from), you will always sabotage another person's love - your need for external validation, and the constant insecurity and need for reassurance (that can never be enough) will be too much for any healthy person to cope with.

I really urge you to take a break from dating and find some sort of therapy that can properly address your issues

It's really unfair to make another person responsible for solving your own body issues

the only people who can cope with someone who needs constant external validation are toxic ones.

At the risk of repeating myself and shouting...

I don't EVER say ANYTHING negative about myself.

I don't EVER hide myself away or cover myself up.

I don't EVER ask if I look ok, or what someone thinks of me or any other means of seeking reassurance or validation.

EVER.

Nothing at all.

The reason I don't is because I dont want to give anyone ammunition; I would NEVER reveal my insecurities to anyone irl and I wouldn't ask for reassurance I didn't think I was going to get anyway.

He made it very plain throughout the relationship (and afterwards) that he found me extremely attractive.

That sounds lovely.

I had similar that one time. But not before or since.

@TheLaundryNeedsTidying

It's really unfair to make another person responsible for solving your own body issues

the only people who can cope with someone who needs constant external validation are toxic ones.

At the risk of repeating myself and shouting...

I don't EVER say ANYTHING negative about myself.

I don't EVER hide myself away or cover myself up.

I don't EVER ask if I look ok, or what someone thinks of me or any other means of seeking reassurance or validation.

EVER.

Nothing at all.

The reason I don't is because I dont want to give anyone ammunition; I would NEVER reveal my insecurities to anyone irl and I wouldn't ask for reassurance I didn't think I was going to get anyway.

He made it very plain throughout the relationship (and afterwards) that he found me extremely attractive.

That sounds lovely.

I had similar that one time. But not before or since.

It feels like you're so defeated when it comes to this topic that you aren't open to any advice / ideas etc on it. Which is fine of course as that's your prerogative, but I'm conscious this thread is going to keep being full of comments from people like me trying to suggest things to try but you are unwilling to divert from the narrative you believe to be true. I really hope you can find a way to shift focus from seeing yourself in such a negative light and attributing people's poor treatment of you solely to your body. Counsellors are trial and error - going to one or two and it not working isn't unusual, it's a case of finding one you connect with and being open to trying new things. The things your previous counsellor suggested to you (arbitrary love yourself / wear make up and feel glam etc) wouldn't have worked at all for me either. CBT and EMDR have done but there is no one size fits all solution. I'm not sure what else anyone can say really but wanted to wish you well

Do you have a skin condition, loose skin or excess hair or scars? What exactly about your body that you think shocks them?

Sorry..somebody once told you you had a cute fanny?!

Anyhoo..He likes you and fancies you. Relax in that thought like it’s a warm bath. So many people would love to have a partner . You’ve got one who wants to be with you..that’s great OP and whoever he’s been with in the past is irrelevant to your relationship now.

I saw a young , fit bloke on TV the other day and had a fleeting thought of if I were 30 years younger etc. But then I also fancy my 60 plus , overweight grey haired husband. They are two completely different things ..not least cos one is entirely in my imagination!

Enjoy your body OP. It’s the only one you’ve got!

The feet compliments are creepy 🤮
How old are you op if you don't mind saying? How old is the new man?