Sexism, feeling downtrodden by my mum and DH

[cadburyegg]

DH and i have had a lot of problems this year (i know everyone has had a difficult year) he lost his job in july as a direct result of covid, thankfully he is now working again but the way he treated me when he wasn't working was awful. I have been wfh since March, still did 50% of the childcare responsibilities, school runs etc (DS's are 5 and 2). In this time he has used DS1 as a pawn against me in arguments more than once, often insisted i finished working early so I could watch the kids while he made dinner, was irresponsible with money (e.g. buying himself expensive gadgets whilst on JSA, when I was worrying about how to afford winter coats for the kids) and generally acted like having to look after the kids was a huge imposition on him. He even said he wasn't that concerned about being out of work because he was claiming JSA, even though it was our savings and my salary that was paying for everything. I feel like he has very little respect for me and my work despite the fact that i actually earn more than him. This has caused a lot of arguments. Being back at work has massively inflated his ego and he's "joked" more than once about "how important his job is" whilst I now have to juggle my own job around doing 100% of the school runs and childcare responsibilities during the week as well as 80% of life admin and housework.

I've been talking to my mum a bit about the whole thing and she just has a really sexist attitude. I should mention that my dad was physically abusive (to her and me) and she implies that because DH doesn't hit me that i need to learn to live with it. I don't want to mention the situation to her anymore because she just says, "aw you're not splitting up are you???" Her attitude is very much "this is what men are like". I asked her to give me the number of her electrician as we need some minor works done and she implied that I need to ask DH's permission just to get a quote done.

I don't know what to do really. I'm just feeling very downtrodden and I don't know if I'm just being ridiculous and oversensitive about it all because that's the way i've been made to feel. I've only given a few examples because I don't want this to be really long. But I just don't know what to do about it and I feel like the closest adults to me in my life are against me.

I think you need to not talk to your mum about your relationship and talk to someone who is more supportive; she has some worrying views about relationships which are not healthy. You can’t change how she sees things but you can change how you’re made to feel by her views.
Maybe then you would feel strong enough to do what you feel is the right thing for you. For what it’s worth I wouldn’t be continuing in a relationship where I was treated so disrespectfully.

COVID is a time when we have actually found out who people are. I would very carefully look at what your options are with respect to separation and divorce. It will be hard but you might find you have more money when you are only having to manage your income and expenses.

It might not be unsalvagable but if you are going to give an ultimatum with respect to mediation and separation you need to be able to follow through. But certainly viewing women as 'service providers' not people is a major issue.

Your mother thinks a relationship is good if a man isn't hitting her children and her. She's conditioned to accept other forms of abuse as a male entitlement, and it sounds as if your in-laws have conditioned your husband the same way.

If you earn more, and do all the housework, childcare and mental load, then you are subsidising every single area of his life. And I agree he won't change - why would he? This is a dream set-up for him. It's what men always had in the old days (free staff) only now you pay him, via your salary being higher, for the privilege.

Only you can know if you get enough from other aspects of the relationship for this to be worth it. But if the children are your concern, I would point out that you are modelling what a relationship looks like, and what they can expect themselves. I'd find that worrying, tbh.

My own DH isn't perfect and nor am I, and accordingly nor is our life. But it's a damn sight more perfect than what you describe. That wouldn't be one I could tolerate.

Yes, I would get some counselling first as I would see what need to be unpacked before you make any lifechanging decisions. There are more opportunities for online counselling but I would take care to ensure they are reputable. It looks like you have a lot to unpac.

In terms of your H, why would he want to change? After all he has it going his way, why would he want to give up his privilage?

Yes, find a supportive counsellor.
You'll be amazed how much better you'll feel without toxicity dragging you down.

Weekends are ok but DH does the fun stuff with the kids, while I do housework or catch up on work. Pre lockdown we’d go out maybe. He does very little housework etc unless I moan at him to do so. Even when he wasn’t working and the kids were at school/preschool he’d moan.

I’m going to look into Relate but probably for myself only. So I can get my head straight.

I wouldn’t know where to start with logistics. I can’t make him leave but he wouldn’t be able to stay in the house on his own because he couldn’t afford all the bills by himself. The house has both of our names on the mortgage

Good idea, OP.

I had a bit of counselling on my own, before making my decision- it really helped.

I realised I could not go through life with someone who was not a true partner.

He sounds abusive. Your mum can't see that because abuse is normal to her. To a lesser degree, it sounds like it's normal to you as well.

I think therapy on your own is a good idea so you have someone independent and better informed to help you work through things, and maybe help you feel a bit better supported and stronger in yourself.

The Freedom Programme course may also be helpful as a way for you to get a clearer picture of what healthy relationships vs abusive relationships actually look like. Then it will be easier to make your decisions about what you do next and to have more confidence in your judgement.

Somebody doesn't have to ever use physical violence to be abusive. It's not normal to be treated so badly by anyone, let alone someone who is supposed to care about you.

Well you know what, look at it this way. If you split them on the weekends you don’t have the kids you can blitz the house and spend the weekends you do have the kids concentrating on them and being fun mum. Why should you do everything? Without him, your workload will be less. He will have to cook, clean for himself. And the kids when he has them. You get to sleep in and enjoy peaceful time. My friend left her husband who sounds very similar to yours. She’s now with a lovely guy who looks after her and treats her with respect and when her ex (who used to do nothing and disrespect her) has the kids, she gets to go out and spend lovely weekends with her sweet guy. That could be you. Don’t put up with this crap

Your mother cannot provide support in this area because she had a co-dependent relationship with her husband. He treated her badly and for her part, she 'allowed' that behaviour to happen because of her own upbringing and generational issues.
Selfish men prefer women who take the role of carer and soother of feelings...women who put their own needs aside. Because society taught them that any husband is better than no husband. She couldn't see the dynamic at play.

That the man gets the TV remote to watch the match and the woman sits there even though she has no interest. She 'allows' him to control the TV. She gives him the importance.

What's important here too is that you recognise your role in this too. That maybe you find it hard to express your needs clearly. Rather than keeping most of the anger in, making remarks and hoping your partner will notice and go and do the grocery shopping.
If your mother couldn't see the value of herself or express her needs clearly, then its unlikely you developed those skills.
Sometimes before we have kids, the 'roles' are already laid down. The woman is the Carer and runs the household.
Then when kids come along, the Carer and household admin role expands dramatically but the man is 'allowed' to keep his previous role.
Suddenly 5 years later, here we are.
I am not saying your DH is not a selfish shit. What I am saying is that if you don't clearly see your role in the dynamic, things can't change.
Counselling for yourself will give you the support you need. Once you start feeling equal you will start acting equal.

Again, I appreciate all your responses. The whole situation is really affecting me mentally. I’m hoping talking to a counsellor will help because my anxiety levels are through the roof

Stay with him and teach the children all about having an unequal and disrespectful relationship

@EKGEMS

Stay with him and teach the children all about having an unequal and disrespectful relationship

Thanks for your helpful comment

Hi OP. I think solo counselling will be really helpful for you and help you sort out your thoughts and emotion, and consider what you want to do.

I'm sorry you are so overloaded and stressed. Your husband is very selfish.

OP EKGEM is pointing out children copy what they see around them.
So you staying in your relationship isn't for them and actually may be detrimental to their emotional and social development.

If you split they would get to see their dad anyway and he would still do the fun things but would have to do some proper parenting. (Though how good he would be at it is debatable.)

Clearly,you're unhappy because you aren't being treated how you deserve-with respect and love and your kids will be picking up on that dynamic especially as their primary caregiver. Hopefully relate can help you

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what did yours teach you?.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Your own parents did not at all show you a good example of a mutually respectful relationship and I think you've gone onto pick a man not too dissimilar to how your father behaves.

You are wrong in one important respect as well; you can do this on your own. Your mother stayed with her H for her own reasons; even you thought her advice was rubbish. You really do need to clear out all these toxic people from your life because they will relish in further bringing you (and your kids in turn) down to their base level.

I would consider seeing a BACP registered therapist rather than a Relate counsellor; they tend not to be as adept in picking up abuse within relationships.

OP,
Your mother's relationship bar is none the floor, please don't waste your time speaking to her.

You grew up in an abusive home.

You married an abusive waster.

He comes from a toxic background.

You need to focus on yourself.
He has ruined the relationship so DON'T take responsibility for it.

He is responsible for ruining your relationship.

Start making plans for you.
Start seeking support for you.
Contact Women's Aid to seek support.
Contact your GP to see if you can get support.

Stop doing anything for him.
Anything.

He sounds like a real selfish waster.

Cut your losses and start prioritising yourself.

You sound like a very capable women.

I appreciate your responses

DH got a letter from the DWP about his JSA which stopped, telling him how much he received in the period he was unemployed. I worked out that he had put less than half the total in the joint account. (he left the letter on the kitchen table btw, I didn’t go snooping!)

I know on paper it sounds obvious I should leave but the thing is, most of the time we get on, despite the other issues. It’s not like he’s done one thing that’s caused this, it’s more lots of little things that have built up, so I still feel conflicted

So what did he do with the rest of the money?.

Lots of little things do build up; its also called death by 1000 cuts.

Is it true that you get along now mainly because you push down your own feelings and self worth?. What message does that send your children?. What is actively preventing you from leaving this man besides your own self?. You only need to give your own self permission to leave.

When he says he appreciates and respects you, have you pointed out what appreciation and respect would be for you?

His attitude in regards to roles could be laziness or it could be as a result of his upbringing. I'm not saying that to excuse his attitude...because I really hate sexist behaviour, but in the same way women can be doormats and stand for nonsense because that's what they saw growing up, the same applies to men.

I remember DH once telling me his DM didn't have a problem working and still preparing all the family meals on her own... I was so angry, I told him it's no wonder his DM was so sick now, because she'd run around after them for years....and I was not going to do that and sign myself off to an early grave.

I felt a bit bad after I said it, but I was fed up with it all.

So hes lazy, puts you down, doesn’t appreciate anything you do, lies about money.. I’ve probably not covered everything. The best thing to be said is he doesn’t hit you. Why is your bar so low op? Is it what your mother taught you? On this premise, what do you want to teach your children? You deserve much much better, and hopefully going to relate will help you see that.

I told him yesterday it was over and he needs to move out by the end of January and he pleaded with me and is determined to “win me back”.

I reminded him this morning I hadn’t changed my mind but I’m quite unnerved because he’s literally acting like everything is normal, being the doting dad and husband. It’s making me very anxious and like I said I feel very unnerved. He was a completely different person yesterday, grumpy and sulky and making passive aggressive remarks to me and the children. Idk what to do

Why isn’t he like this all the time?

Don't let a temporary improvement in his behaviour throw you into a spin.

Really, it just shows that he normally chooses to behave shittily towards you. It's not that he doesn't know how a relationship should be, or that he isn't aware, but he has chosen over the years to be a bad partner.

As soon as he's confident he's got you back under the thumb, it'll revert.