Moral dilemma.

[firewalkeruk]

My DW and I have 3 grown sons all with their own families.
My middle boy has two young sons 10 and 6 while the eldest and youngest son have both sons and daughters.
My dil has persuaded our son to start fostering with a view to adoption.
I have concerns with regards to her reasons for doing this and her expectations.
She is a very volatile personality and some of her behaviour is worrying to say the least.
The have moved home 13 times in the last 12 years once three times in one year. Currently she is planning to renew their vows but it is turning into a second wedding with dress, reception photographer, cars and some of her family and friends flying in from as far away as Canada.
She has unrealistic attitudes towards money and our son has already had to finance her bankruptcy case and carries almost all the financial burden.
We their boys were younger my wife and I had to sit with her if our son had to work evenings or weekends and our son is responsible for the large majority of childcare.
She had a job one night per week at a care home and their children were farmed out to us and her parents the day before and the day after her shift so she could get enough sleep.
Now she expects to get a young girl, 3 to 5 years old, to foster with a view to adoption. She has already created a pink room in preparation of this event.
My issue is that I have been asked to provide a reference and I know she expects me to support her aims if I fail to do so there will be repercussions which will affect my relationship with my son.
I cannot bring myself to give the authorities a distorted view and my conscience will not allow me to be false to myself.
I feel caught on the horns of a dilemma that may break my son's and wife's hearts.

Do you know what the reference questions are and how much bearing the reference will have? If you are able to write factual answers rather than your interpretation then hopefully they will be able to see what has been going on. I would try and find out if she is rejected what the rejection would be like ie. Will they say she is not suitable or will they directly comment on your reference. Please don't provide a reference where your integrity is compromised. What does your son think??

Is there any way you can make a very factual reference as pp suggests, and then contact whoever is to receive the reference to explain your situation?

You have no alternative but to answer all questions honestly and to the best of your ability. The welfare of any child placed FAR exceeds your DILs hopes and expectations. Be honest and let them do their due diligence in vetting your son and DIL. Ask for all information to be kept confidential.

Social work assessment for fostering and adoption are two different processes. For adoption they will have to provide a history of everywhere they have lived and financial issues so those issues will be highlighted anyway. Social workers are rightly very thorough, so there would be issues raised anyway over them wanting a pink girl, questions would be asked about work and childcare. Just be honest and factual when you answer your referee questions, social Work will surmise what they need to know from it!!

Thank you all for your responses. The form states that my reply will be confidential. I wasn't told by my DIL that I was to be a referee but she has used me before in job applications, also without asking, so I guess I am going to have to deal with that before moving on to completing the form.
As we live in Northern Ireland the process can be slightly different.
I will contact the person who sent the form and maybe I close a covering letter which covers some of my concerns.

Please just be honest. It is a long process and the financial issues and lack of stability will be discussed. No one will ever tell them that that weren't sucesssion based on a reference by their family.

Tell the truth on the form. Children who are in care have experienced considerable trauma and need stable and loving placements. Your dil can't offer that and you would be acting in the best interests of a very vulnerable child if you tell SS what you have told here.

I'm adopted. Please tell the truth and voice any concerns, children looking to be placed are the most vulnerable children in society.

I would be pretty surprised if the placing agency accepted references the father of the male applicant . They're surely looking for someone less biased and more objective.

   From your description I think it highly unlikely  DIL will pass assessment; the frequent moves, financial history,   etc  WILL come to light and  are red flags. 

   Because there are so many instances of instability /unsuitability  as reasons to turn them down, there's no reason for  your son to blame or even suspect your reference.  So you can  give your true opinion. SW won't  disclose it to DIL and DS anyone.

Be honest. The moral dilemma part of this is really about do you want to have a child who already has significant issues placed with someone you feel is completely unsuitable to meet their complex needs.

You have to be honest. Children need stability, especially children who've already experienced the loss of their original family and have been moved around within the Foster care system.

From your description, she could be a very destructive force in a young childs life. Especially if the reality is different from her expectations.

OP - it clear that you don’t like your DIL, but she is currently a mother to two boys, your grand children.
If you think she is unsuitable as a foster parent - how is that she is Ok to parent your grand kids?
What motivation do you think she has in adopting that you say you are doubting?

I get that you mentioned she is not great with money. And they moved a lot - weird, but not in itself something so so worrying. But other than that it’s only clear that you don’t like it, while your son chooses to be with her and raise his kids with her.

Adoption is a noble act. Not so many people want to do it. I don’t know if there are more kids than prospective parents where you are, but generally isn’t it better for a child to grow up in a family than in a home?

Why don’t you answer whatever form you have factually and say what you have to say. It will be only one of many inputs anyway.
And see hat happens.

Does your son have no say? I would expect the adoption process to ferret out if he’s less than keen.

MMmomDD, it's quite a statement to say that I dislike my DIL. The truth is she is a very likable person and as the mother of my grandchildren she deserves, and gets, my respect.
She has never raised a hand to our grandsons and she ensures they have a warm, clean home and enjoy things such as singing classes for the eldest. She has always worked when she can and my DW and I have enjoyed holidays abroad with our son and his family. We also get on well with her parents.
However everything I have said above is true. She has also been known to be liberal with the truth, she told my wife and I her father was diagnosed with cancer which wasn't true amongst other things.
I trust my son implicitly with our grandchildren but he can be blind to his wife's 'quirks'.
I do believe she would be a loving mother to a daughter but I also know that her expectation is way beyond the role and scope of a fostering mother.

Do you realise your son appears as entirely without a mind or agency in your account of all this? Are you sure you’re not placing sole responsibility for decisions you consider unwise on your DIL’s shoulders, rather than face the fact that your son is also responsible for all the house moves, vow renewal, fostering etc?

Bannister, I guess you feel as if I am coming across as a misogynist. Wife regards to my son, he is a kind and giving person and when it comes to his wife I guess he goes along with a lot of stuff for a quiet life. He isn't a complete innocent but is also compliant because he doesn't want to challenge her because she has in the past threatened leave him and take the children to Canada.

You realise if she is on mumsnet she is going to recognise herself and therefore you from all the detail you've posted?

She can’t take the dc to Canada: their usual place of residence is Ireland, no court would allow her to simply remove them to Canada, there is a legal process which keeps them in their usual place of residence.

If you are asked for a reference (unlikely), be honest.

I am sorry OP, your posts are not painting you in the greatest of lights.
You don’t like her and it comes out loud and clear in the way you talk about her.
You think she is manipulating your son somehow and not pulling her weight.
You also seem to judge her and question her fitness to foster/adopt - with not much of evidence to it.

So - is she a volatile person with questionable behaviour - or does she provide a loving home to your grandchildren?
And noting that you mentioned that she never raised a hand to her sons.... it seems like such a strange statement. On so many levels.

But coming back to your concern over fostering/adoption.
Can you actually clarify what the issue is?
What do you mean by not being sure about her motivation and expectations?
I presume she is motivated by a desire to give a home to a child, and to add a daughter to her family. And expects to foster a child and see if there is a fit.
Are you saying she is trying to gain something through it? Or will she not be a good mother to a girl - despite in your own words being a good mother to her sons?
Can you clarify?

I get a feeling that you don’t want them to adopt. You make it as if it’s just her idea and your son was manipulated into it.
Can it possibly be that you don’t want/can’t accept an adopted grandchild yourself and are projecting something?

I disagree with the others. It’s clear that any concerns you have about her behaviour have never gotten in the way of you supporting her and your son. I think those as all red flags, including, the fact that she specifically wants a girl of a certain age... social work will assess their suitably for age of children fostered, and basically gender shouldn’t come into it. Financial issues will also be explored for adoption. Be factual but honest in your account, that’s all you can do.

@firewalkeruk

Bannister, I guess you feel as if I am coming across as a misogynist. Wife regards to my son, he is a kind and giving person and when it comes to his wife I guess he goes along with a lot of stuff for a quiet life. He isn't a complete innocent but is also compliant because he doesn't want to challenge her because she has in the past threatened leave him and take the children to Canada.

No, it’s a pattern I often see on Mn, from male and female posters, about men and women — people blame a problematic behaviour, not on their own parent/adult child/sibling, but on the spouse this person is married to, who’s perceived as having made them do whatever it is. So it’s ‘My stepmother won’t let my father visit me’, rather than ‘My father can’t be bothered to stay in contact’ or ‘My BIL is forcing my sister to emigrate and breaking our parents’ hearts’ not ‘My sister is moving to the other side of the world of her own free will’ etc etc.

It’s too painful for people to acknowledge that the behaviour is freely being chosen by their relative, and easier to diminish their responsibility by viewing them as being coerced.

Are you sure that’s not what you’re doing here?

Your son is just as culpable regarding every single (poor) decision that you attribute to your DIL.

You have allowed your DIL AND SON to use you for childcare to facilitate their jobs. You could have said no.

Yes, it sounds like your DIL's e

Yes, it sounds like your DIl's fostering expectations aren't realistic, but your son is equally involved. Going along for an easy life doesn't absolve him of any of it.

So yes, tell the truth. but be honest with yourself, too: you blame your DIL for everything you don't like about their lifestyle. But your son has chosen to go along with it. If he didn't like it, he could take legal advice.

I'd get this thread removed now. Very outing.

their children were farmed out to us and her parents the day before and the day after her shift so she could get enough sleep.

Doesn’t sound particularly respectful to me.

@user147425843578

You realise if she is on mumsnet she is going to recognise herself and therefore you from all the detail you've posted?

This