Is this typical for abuse/toxicity

[Clementinesunshine]

Hi everyone

Me and my partner have had a rocky relationship since the start. Only 2 years together. I may have had bad gut feelings from early on, but can never tell with them and also may just not have been ready for a new relationship.

At the beginning arguments were clearly down to him. E.g. flipping at something really small, unable to handle the smallest of criticism and feedback. There were always periods of silence/not seeing each other afterwards (I have not experienced that before). I didn't mind as I got some space. Sometimes he apologised and did seem remorseful, tried to get back in touch first. He made me cry a lot in arguments from the start and just left me alone to be upset. These arguments were literally from within the first few months.

But in the last year or so every single argument has been turned onto me. Yes maybe he made a joke or something I didn't like so I said something, but he goes off on one. He just rages so easily. He works himself up. Then I get worked up (usually just really upset and teary)

I can be extremely emotional when driven there during arguments, it is quite possible I have a mental issue so I am going through diagnosis. Yet it feels like I am only driven there because of how much he rages. How he sometimes says nasty things during arguments. He has told me I am being manipulative when I am in floods of tears. He has sat coldly, or even laughed. It feels like if I do get any sort of diagnosis, his behaviour won't change during future arguments, it won't make him any more understanding during them or less likely to be nasty/rage, and indeed everything will be put down to me being "mentally ill". Nothing to do with his own anger issues and the way he acts in arguments. And at least I will be getting therapy to help me get better if I am indeed ill. What will he be doing for his own anger and nastiness?

I mean of course I can be not great in arguments either, sometimes cruel. I have deteriorated more in recent arguments myself.

But this seems so beyond anything I have experienced despite having other toxic relationships many many years ago (and a healthier one previous to this one, my longest). He said a few times at the start that he was a "nice guy" and I always thought it was so odd. He has stopped saying it since I told him during an argument that nice guys wouldn't be horrible like that.

He also knows a lot of my background history. The fact is all but one of my previous relationships have been abusive in some way, but that was long ago now. I do carry a bit of paranoia from that which does make me question my judgement with this one constantly. But now it feels like he is using this information against me during arguments. Insinuating I am abusive, I am scary. Yes I can get really upset and shout eventually, usually because he already is shouting and I am trying to get heard. But I am tiny in comparison to him, and underweight. I have done nothing violent or physical whereas he has put his hand over my mouth (softly though) during an argument and then been really surprised at my negative reaction to it, clearly not realising in the moment that it wasn't right to do that. Although those were the days he used to apologise more (never now) so he did apologise for that afterwards.

I was the one that told him early on that I sometimes found him and his temper scary due to my history. Now he says I am scary.

Another thing is when he starts raging he also accuses me of being the angry one and a new word he likes to use is being "agressive". Yes towards I do end up getting pretty angry and very very upset , but he normally accuses those things when my voice isn't raised and I am trying to stay as calm as possible. Of course, him raging and accusing me of being angry when I am trying to stay calm, ultimately makes me lose my own control and get angry/upset!

Also many times when we argue he says stuff like I just want to relax, I work hard just want to rest. Well, don't we all? But sometimes things need to be discussed. He does nothing outside work other than sit at the TV, no kids, he has all the time in the world to relax. Perhaps having a relationship is too much bother for him? Or it is when we argue, or I have an issue with him. He just wants a boring, easy life.

I just wondered if this was typical toxic behaviour. Things seem to have flipped since the beginning. Now all arguments on me. Now seems like projection: I am angry and aggressive and whatever else. I am the scary one. Even though he seemingly works himself up into a rage about the smallest of things sometimes. Yes maybe I drive a point too much sometimes, and may not be the best at raising or trying to discuss things myself. I'm not perfect. But he could still choose not to rage and get so worked up and laugh at me when I am crying.

It's been a few weeks since our last argument but I have not been very close with him, I just can't get over how bad the arguments have got, my level of paranoia now, confusion, and I just have a bit of a mental block now and can't really remember that I love him and I have been a quite depressed. He of course has been acting super nice and caring since then. I just cant reconcile this "caring" guy with the horrendous arguments and even other times when he has exhibited not great behaviour outside arguments (like very occasional belittling)

Well I am as I say accessing some support for my mental health, and so hopefully the therapist can help me to also understand this situation a bit clearer.

Thank you

Him trying to blame everything that happens on you and your mental health is gaslighting and emotional abuse. Please separate from him and block him on everything. xxxxx

@Clementinesunshine honestly sounds so similar! I never knew it was called reactive abuse but that is exactly what I say to him all the time ! He makes me act like this to justify his behaviour and make me seem the crazy one he pushes me and pushes me ignores texts and calls till I go absoloutley mental and then he responds to me wtfff?? .

I have had break downs too been uncontrollably crying to the point I can barely breath I’ve thrown things around my flat out of anger etc and then thought wtf are you doing? He tells me I don’t care about him and it’s all about me and I never ask if he is okay and all this bollocks and sometimes I think is that true am I awful?? But I have a good family and friendship network who always tell me how kind I am.

I don’t apologise unless I am wrong and I won’t beg but I will be the one asking him to come round and talk or be the one calling him till he answers (20 times in a row sometimes). He also two years ago left me whilst I was pregnant ( I terminated ) but only cos of him and his reaction to it he would not even discuss it with me sent his mum to my house to talk at the time he was 31 years old ! I wanted the baby but couldn’t do it with him the way he is . He didn’t come to the abortion or even ask me how it went that triggered an ‘off period ‘ and we didn’t speak for months. I’ve never gotten over it and I never will. We both have no kids.

Do you live with him ? Or Do you live alone ? Either of you have any children ?

Sounds soo similar he would also say ‘ well you wanted time away from me ‘ ‘ you wanted me to leave you ‘ ‘ you told me to ‘ also says things like I’m a cancer in your life I need to leave etc.

Gosh yes mine also says ‘leave then ‘ end it etc in a argument when he is sooo Blatently wrong !!!

It may sound bad but I have a date tonight with a guy who seems nice but I feel sick I keep thinking about my ex ( we are currently not together ) maybe it’s wrong but I can’t live like this anymore and there’s more to life than him . But I don’t even want to go I feel like I’m forcing myself in sat here drinking wine at fukin 2pm for god sake. Dates not till 7.30.. but I’ve dated before and I never like them and I just want my ex back even though he’s awful at times I’m just stuck to the comfort of it all.. even though half the time not comforting one bit.

My ex does that we have HUGE bust ups nothings ever talked about and he starts being nice randomly ‘ are you okay’ etc etc and won’t talk about what was discussed and said before

He also smokes weed .. used to be an evening thing just before bed I don’t mind as I do smoke it but socially only .. he’s now started smoking it more and I think it’s changing him and turning him into something awful.. he honestly has about 10 personalities and then he smokes and he’s calm again and really nice. When he doesn’t smoke after work he’s fukin Awful till he does.

We need to support each other through it

Ahh @Bex19999 I am sorry to hear this and sorry to hear about the abortion and how awful he was after it.

The only thing that makes me think he is not the same person (as they sound identical) is you gave his age then and mine is way older. Way older yet like this and never had a relationship longer than 3 years.

We don't live together or have kids but unfortunately he lives basically next door. So that makes it even harder. But I refuse to move!

I reckon you are brave to go on a date but you should go and try and have fun. I personally don't want to date anybody for a long long time now. I need to work on myself anyway.

Indeed I wanted to stay single when we first met but of course I got so swept up by the charm of it all.

Mine ignores texts and calls straight after arguments. I have a meltdown and then that's it, he is not interested. Not there for me when I am so upset and he has made me cry and left me alone since the very first argument but as time has gone on I have got more and more hysterical and emotional, alone, and honestly I fear for myself at this point.

Honestly I am jealous that you are currently away from him. You absolutely have to stay strong and stay away for good!!! We both deserve so much more

Thanks @SoulofanAggron deep down I know this I am just constantly questioning myself and wondering how awful I am too

@Clementinesunshine you are VERY on top of this and nearly there, you just need that extra strength from somewhere to finally break free. See if you can find a RL friend(s) or a counsellor/therapist or sign up to freedom programme. Maybe see if you can work on your self esteem too (I would recommend the book 'the six pillars of self esteem'). You literally got this and just need a bit of support to help you do what you know is right. Well done.

I am doing freedom programme now and things that it helped me to clarify, which are relevant to your story are:

• Mental health, stress, alcohol etc etc is never a good reason/justification for abusive behaviour, it is merely an excuse. Just forget whether you have MH or not for the time being because it's a separate thing. Not relevant. You will deal with it separately. Deal with abuse first. Hurting other people, any people, with MH issues or not, is not okay.

• There is a common misconception that a woman who has been abused has some understanding of what has happened to her. This is simply not true. When a woman is being subjected to abuse she feels that she is in the middle of a very confusing mess and that it must be somehow her fault.

• One of the most confusing things about abuse is that abusers CAN be nice some of the time, and CAN be nice to others. It doesn't make their behaviour during the time they're abusive okay. It's really well illustrated in Big Little Lies where the husband is playing with kids and behaving like a model father a lot of the time.

• Emotional abuse is not less damaging than physical abuse. In fact if physical abuse can be proven it can set the victim free earlier, because police and court can use the evidence and take action. Emotional abuse tends to last longer and damage the victim more.

• On average abused women who left attempted to break free 8 times before they finally left for good. Many never leave.

Best wishes x

Leave him.

It is typical of abusers to blame their victims for their shitty behaviour and to try to make them doubt themselves and their sanity.

Be strong, seek emotional support from friends or a professional if you can.

No longer allow people like this to control you.

It is a sad fact that some people have a radar for those who have been already hurt/abused/damaged and know that they are more likely to be easily manipulated and made to feel guilty. Men like this disgust me...

@Clementinesunshine how old is he if you don’t mind me asking ? By way older im guessing 50s? Are you the same age ? Has he ever said why he hasn’t had a Rship over 3 years.. I assume he doesn’t want children ?

God i cannot imagine how hard it must be to live next door ! Mine lives about 15/20 mins away and I thought that was bad enough as in the early days when he used to pretend to be ‘sorry’ he would always turn up here. Good on you for refusing to remove you shouldn’t have to.

I have been on several dates during this for years but only when we haven’t been together but it is probably not the right thing to do as I probably need to work on myself to and it’s kinda not fair on the guy cos he doesn’t know about any of this but it’s just a first date and I need to just see it as that really .

Mines the same not interested.. in 4 years I’ve had two grandparents pass away and tbh he wasn’t there for me at all during any of it maybe the first one which was years ago now but the recent one was January and he wasn’t there for me not even in the slightest. He’s never really supported me emotionally but the first 6 months he couldn’t find enough for me I thought I’d met the one ! As my previous ex wasn’t very emotional and upfront about his feelings but he was very supportive.

The ignoring is horrible and it’s a form of emotional abuse. I’ve told him this yet he doesn’t seem to get it. Only one weeks ago he told me he was going to prioritise me and make me his everything to show me.. 3 days later he blocked me on everything.

Maybe it’s too early to date but I’m only 30 nearly 31 I want to experience life and know there’s more to it than him I’ve given him my all since I was 27 and I’ve got fuk all back from him.

But I am far from out of this situation I have been crying all morning and it’s just so shit

Thank you all. I have been in bed all day very low so not able to reply properly to everyone but thank you.

I do feel a little trapped because of how near he lives. I can't even leave home without walking past his place. But I don't want and can't really move at the moment

I think that is one of the main reasons I am feeling so down

I hope you are ok @Bex19999

Once you’re not seeing him you can work on how you feel bumping into him, passing his house etc.

You need to break up, go no contact and get counselling before even considering dating anyone again.

Your relationship with yourself is the most meaningful one you will ever have in your life. Invest in it time, money and headspace wise.

Your current set up is utterly toxic and will only get worse and damage you more the longer you stay.

You've been in abusive and toxic relationships before - you need to break this cycle and be comfortable and happy being single before thinking about being with anyone again. I've been where you are.

I was single, worked really really hard (sometimes painfully) in therapy and am now in a calm, equal, balanced relationship. I didn't know those genuinely existed and were fulfilling before. But I had to do the work first.

Please end this relationship and focus on your mental health and healthy future

Thanks everyone. I did have a healthier relationship before this one, and my longest. All the more reason why I have found this one so shocking and painful and up and down.

Certainly I wasn't perfect in that relationship as the ex left me in the end. But I grew up with an emotionally abusive father and clearly have known nothing but different types of abuse during my life. So, even though that relationship was much more healthier and stable, I think more often than not I was the one that tried to cause problems where there weren't any, and so it ended. Yes I do need to work on myself. That was the plan 2 years ago to stay single. But then I moved here and met this current one and he charmed me before I could realise.

He is almost fifty. Over a decade older. No friends (don't have many myself either to be fair) no kids no relationships longer than three years only lived with a woman once I was trying not to judge him about all this before, but really...

I managed to get the day to myself yesterday. He has been texting asking if I am ok, I said I have been very low (true). This morning was a sickly sweet message. I just don't believe any of it any more! Why doesn't he ask if I am ok after arguments, usually I am a wreck and he knows that.

Oh yeah in the last big argument a few weeks ago when I was getting hysterical (admittedly begging him back again, after he said we should end it, terrible I know) he pulled out his phone to start recording. Looking back I think he just pressed the stopwatch/countdown timer but it looked real and I was very upset so believed it (I have noticed other white lies from him)

I was in total shock and very upset by that and can't get over it. Even though now I believe it was a lie. He said it was because I was scaring him...me crying (hysterical, admittedly) on a chair on the other side of the room was scaring him

Then afterwards he said it was because he was scared for both of us. I said if you were really scared for me, scared for my MH, why do you always disappear after arguments, or let me walk out and then not speak to me for days/weeks until I get back in touch, until I apologise.

It's bullshit and I no longer believe it.

Another thing he said in that last argument was something along the lines of oh I was looking at engagement rings a few weeks ago. Bullshit. Manipulation. Even if you were, why bring it up in the middle of a very heated argument.

He has said in arguments we should end it because he can't believe what this has turned into. Yes, me neither. What I can't believe is how he can't look at himself to see how his own behaviour has destroyed us. From the early days when he would flip over tiny things and not speak for a while, thereby causing me to put my defense up and make some distance, to now, where he rages on everything and twists everything on me and will never apologise and leaves me to suffer. I can't believe the gaslighting, projection, deflection, rage, abandoning me when he knows I am most upset. Taking me back (nowadays it as after I have begged unfortunately or at least said sorry first, at the beginning it was him that apologised and got in touch first) and then turning on Mr Nice and caring and frankly smothering again. It is such bullshit and I wish I could just send him a message to this effect, tell him what I really think I know it would just cause a ridiculous argument which I can no longer be arsed with, and he will blame my MH and (fairly justified I think) paranoia about him.

He could of calmed me down when I was crying and talking hysterically, especially if he really thinks I am mentally unwell. Or just say nothing and let me cry it out. But oh know he smiled and laughed, and then he chose to take his phone out and lie and say he was recording it.

How are you doing today op?

Honestly I could have written this post myself, but I am now married with a baby who is due to have a big operation tomorrow. I can’t face the thought of being a single mum with an ill child so I am stuck.

I look back at arguments we had when we were as far along as the relationship you have and I wish I had left. I remember thinking ‘my future self would wish I left’ but I didn’t. And here I am as my future self, trapped. Don’t be like me.

How are you doing @Flower8 and @Bex19999?

I am just feeling so low and confused and trapped. He is being Mr nice and caring but I am constantly having paranoid and hateful thoughts about him. I don't know what to believe anymore. Here he is being all nice but memories of our last argument a few weeks ago when he was so cold

Is it my MH causing me to be like this, have all these constant bad thoughts, or is it because it is true? But the bad side of him usually only comes out in arguments (the teasing and belittling seems to have stopped) and the bad side of me comes out then too...

Just so confused. Don't know what is real anymore. Don't know if I have caused our issues or he has, or both. Does it even matter? I know it should end. There is no way we can avoid another blowout: not realistic, all relationships have arguments. But ours are far too much and it is toxic

Don't know what I want or what to believe but I feel I am going crazy as I cannot stop obsessing over my relationship at the moment...

Hi @Ohdear2020 my apologies I did not see your reply yesterday. Thank you for your message. I am sorry it hear that. It seems to be a lot of very identical toxic relationships out there!

As I just mentioned above, I am struggling. I cannot see the wood through the trees. Constantly questioning myself and my own poor behaviour I have shown at times, and dealing with all these negative thoughts about the relationship, whilst he is now being nice and caring.

I definitely won't be having children with him as neither of us want them, and I definitely will be holding off on progressing the relationship any further (eg moving in) until I have worked it all out hopefully in therapy, but clearly the main thing is really whether or not I can figure it all out in my head, what was him what was me etc, really the main answer is that it does need to end and I need to stay away

Hi @Clementinesunshine, I truly believe that if you walk away from this relationship you will you go through a period of utter relief and painful grief but the further the relationship is behind you, the more clarity you will gain. This is a war zone of a relationship. Why wouldn't you be feeling as you do? He has you off balance and doubting yourself. Dodging periodic and unexpected hand grenades will make you feel like you are going crazy.

I know how you feel as my situation is the same. When is good, everything seems to be amazing - he does things around the house (much more than I do), taking me places, paying etc. but small comment can make him upset and then we can have crazy argue- he calls me name etc. Often I’m walking on the egg shells and I don’t think it should be like this... on another hand, I don’t have family, just a few friends who are busy with their own problems. Also, I’m very emotional person (explosive, direct etc.) I was able to go crazy even the most patient partner before. I also tried dating before I got with my current partner and it was awful so I’m kind of stuck and thinking if I’m the one with the problem...

@Clementinesunshine I’m not doing well either tbh... our argument started last weekend and it’s carried on for over a week now. I am now being totally blanked by him he didn’t open any of my messages for over 24 hours and I was genuinely worried only to then find out by my friend he’s been active on Facebook. So he was just ignoring me on purpose he’s done things like this before and we won’t speak for months on end he just won’t respond to me. It’s mental abuse and he doesn’t seem to see it or he doesn’t care ! Probably both.

He eventually replied at 9 am today and said he was alive and would call me later .. I know for 100 percent he won’t ! And I’m going to block him I’m not going to do it yet Cos i want to see if he calls.

I don’t think it’s you or any of your fault .. of course you are going to be confused by his actions and the fact he can be so cruel and then so nice .. which is what I am currently experiencing.

In my case the longer the on and off went on it got worse and it became more off periods than on.

How often do you see him? Have you seen him recently ?

Oh dear @Bex19999 I do think you need to just ignore him and stay no contact it doesn't sound good.

We see each other all the time because we live so close. Too much really, from early on. Saw each other this weekend but I am just not myself right now because of it all so I am not being as close or affectionate.

I feel I have become such a negative and depressed and sick person anyway, why would he even want to be with me? The answer is probably because who else would he realistically get...he is not the type for online dating and was single for years before.

I don't think it's all his fault. It's just his refusal to really accept responsibility or resolve things that gets to me, as well as how crazy the arguments have gotten and how hysterical I have now become and how it just doesn't seem he cares at all in this moments and is now saying I. The scary, aggressive angry one...

I don't know I am starting with a new therapist soon and I really hope this helps me get clarity as well as strength maybe to walk away. Also I might phone the domestic abuse helpline perhaps they can help me gain some clarity.

The primary problem here is the relationship. Your negative thoughts about that are entirely rational!

The sooner the relationship is over the better for your MH.

You could don’t need to wait for therapy, help from a women’s organisation, anything, to set better boundaries - eg even a short break from seeing him! - and ideally ending the relationship. You could take control at any time.

Thanks @Dozer it is hard to do when he is back to being Mr nice and caring, and I know that my MH causes me to really obsess and focus and amplify all the negatives...

It is hard to much of anything right now, take any strong action or decision when my mental health is so low so I am just sort of carrying on as normal, we have still been seeing each other but I still have this wall up and we haven't been intimate for a while

And I just feel guilty on top of it all as there he is being nice and caring again and here I am with all this confusion and misery!

But the fact is the arguments have got so bad and I can't get over how cold he has started to become in arguments. Maybe he has been right though to some extent, saying when I get so upset it is manipulative, well that bit isn't, but a couple of times I have lost all self respect and begged him hysterically and I do believe that that indeed can be a bit manipulative...why I haven't been able to find the strength to just walk away in those moments I don't know

It just sounds grim, clementine. I well remember being so stuck with MH and in a bad relationship, and recovery took a good while.

It’s just so very clear to outsiders that this relationship won’t become a good, or even OK one! So the sooner you’re out of it the better. MH problems or not, you CAN function without him, anytime you choose, and it might be a relief NOT to see him much more quickly than you think.