Is this typical for abuse/toxicity

[Clementinesunshine]

Hi everyone

Me and my partner have had a rocky relationship since the start. Only 2 years together. I may have had bad gut feelings from early on, but can never tell with them and also may just not have been ready for a new relationship.

At the beginning arguments were clearly down to him. E.g. flipping at something really small, unable to handle the smallest of criticism and feedback. There were always periods of silence/not seeing each other afterwards (I have not experienced that before). I didn't mind as I got some space. Sometimes he apologised and did seem remorseful, tried to get back in touch first. He made me cry a lot in arguments from the start and just left me alone to be upset. These arguments were literally from within the first few months.

But in the last year or so every single argument has been turned onto me. Yes maybe he made a joke or something I didn't like so I said something, but he goes off on one. He just rages so easily. He works himself up. Then I get worked up (usually just really upset and teary)

I can be extremely emotional when driven there during arguments, it is quite possible I have a mental issue so I am going through diagnosis. Yet it feels like I am only driven there because of how much he rages. How he sometimes says nasty things during arguments. He has told me I am being manipulative when I am in floods of tears. He has sat coldly, or even laughed. It feels like if I do get any sort of diagnosis, his behaviour won't change during future arguments, it won't make him any more understanding during them or less likely to be nasty/rage, and indeed everything will be put down to me being "mentally ill". Nothing to do with his own anger issues and the way he acts in arguments. And at least I will be getting therapy to help me get better if I am indeed ill. What will he be doing for his own anger and nastiness?

I mean of course I can be not great in arguments either, sometimes cruel. I have deteriorated more in recent arguments myself.

But this seems so beyond anything I have experienced despite having other toxic relationships many many years ago (and a healthier one previous to this one, my longest). He said a few times at the start that he was a "nice guy" and I always thought it was so odd. He has stopped saying it since I told him during an argument that nice guys wouldn't be horrible like that.

He also knows a lot of my background history. The fact is all but one of my previous relationships have been abusive in some way, but that was long ago now. I do carry a bit of paranoia from that which does make me question my judgement with this one constantly. But now it feels like he is using this information against me during arguments. Insinuating I am abusive, I am scary. Yes I can get really upset and shout eventually, usually because he already is shouting and I am trying to get heard. But I am tiny in comparison to him, and underweight. I have done nothing violent or physical whereas he has put his hand over my mouth (softly though) during an argument and then been really surprised at my negative reaction to it, clearly not realising in the moment that it wasn't right to do that. Although those were the days he used to apologise more (never now) so he did apologise for that afterwards.

I was the one that told him early on that I sometimes found him and his temper scary due to my history. Now he says I am scary.

Another thing is when he starts raging he also accuses me of being the angry one and a new word he likes to use is being "agressive". Yes towards I do end up getting pretty angry and very very upset , but he normally accuses those things when my voice isn't raised and I am trying to stay as calm as possible. Of course, him raging and accusing me of being angry when I am trying to stay calm, ultimately makes me lose my own control and get angry/upset!

Also many times when we argue he says stuff like I just want to relax, I work hard just want to rest. Well, don't we all? But sometimes things need to be discussed. He does nothing outside work other than sit at the TV, no kids, he has all the time in the world to relax. Perhaps having a relationship is too much bother for him? Or it is when we argue, or I have an issue with him. He just wants a boring, easy life.

I just wondered if this was typical toxic behaviour. Things seem to have flipped since the beginning. Now all arguments on me. Now seems like projection: I am angry and aggressive and whatever else. I am the scary one. Even though he seemingly works himself up into a rage about the smallest of things sometimes. Yes maybe I drive a point too much sometimes, and may not be the best at raising or trying to discuss things myself. I'm not perfect. But he could still choose not to rage and get so worked up and laugh at me when I am crying.

It's been a few weeks since our last argument but I have not been very close with him, I just can't get over how bad the arguments have got, my level of paranoia now, confusion, and I just have a bit of a mental block now and can't really remember that I love him and I have been a quite depressed. He of course has been acting super nice and caring since then. I just cant reconcile this "caring" guy with the horrendous arguments and even other times when he has exhibited not great behaviour outside arguments (like very occasional belittling)

Well I am as I say accessing some support for my mental health, and so hopefully the therapist can help me to also understand this situation a bit clearer.

Thank you

He has not called me names but he has sworn a lot, and laughed when I am incredibly upset, and then afterwards said he was not laughing at me but the absurdity of the situation.

I mean, really? If he really loved me would he laugh at all? Would he believe I am unwell but at the same time say a situation was absurd, or would he believe I am unwell and want to try to diffuse the situation and comfort me, if he really cared about me and thought I was unwell.

To those that say why not just leave. I know you are right and yes I have previously tried. But we all know that is not easy, kids and marriage or not. That is why people stay being abused for years. I know that is the answer but I need the strength and confidence to do it and stay away afterwards and it is made harder by the fact he lives basically next door.

As regards covid, unless you’re clinically v vulnerable would work on small outings, meeting a friend etc.

And your mental health, if you can afford it would pay for counselling with someone bacp qualified.

Exactly the same i can mention something i just feel a little annoyed about and he will kick off, I've even got to the point where i just say i don't want to talk about it, it will end in an argument.

Mine gets blamed on my anxiety. I've noticed I'm always in a lose lose situation, no matter what i say it's twisted.

He will say how much he loves me, wants to live with me ect but then when i mention it in a disagreement to back myself up, he says I'm possessive and obsessive.

Thank you @Dozer

Obviously as is always the case. It is hard because I did love him, I am attracted to him, he is so nice the rest of the time, etc etc all the usual crap. And I feel so lonely otherwise.

But I've just been so distant the past couple weeks. Don't think I could get beyond this now even if I try, no matter how nice and caring he is trying to be now. So perhaps that is a sign of progress and confidence on my part.

Yes it’s hard to leave, but the situation you’re in is harder, and contributing hugely to your mental ill health. Choose your hard! It won’t change, you’ll just waste even more of your time and energy and be more harmed.

Often people only rarely bump into even immediate neighbours. No need to interact with him when you bump into him post break up. If you rent and want geographical distance you could even move when your contract is up.

@Flower8 yes the same.

This guy is a decade older than me by the way. Single for many years before me. Seemingly can't get a relationship to last longer than two or three years which I always thought was odd for someone older, now I see why.

He just has this mental image of himself as a perfect nice caring guy and yes he can be sometimes. And sometimes he does indeed adjust himself if I have managed to get through and say something I haven't liked. But he can't see how he is during arguments and how that can effect me. Presumably he thinks I just drove him to it. He seemingly has no flaws and if anybody thinks he does he goes on a massive rage.

I don't rent, I own this place and don't want to move. It is different to a normal neighbourhood, much more of a small community, hence why everybody knows each other etc and harder to avoid people. Don't want to give any more outing information!

So as I am staying I just have to find it in myself to really cut and avoid all contact otherwise and stay away

Loneliness is indeed v hard. And this relationship is a big factor in that. Even if he (or another bf) wasn’t abusive/horrible to you and was consistently good to you, you would still need to work on your friendships, getting out, wellbeing etc to feel better, manage your MH and reduce loneliness. All that is SO much harder when you’re in the emotional wringer with a loser.

Loving / being attracted to someone are not good reasons to stay in a bad relationship. The sooner you’re out the sooner you’ll feel much better.

It’s probable that if you don’t end the relationship he will, at a time of his choosing, and in a nasty way. Or WORSE progress to living together/children - that’d be miserable!

OK, so you have a mortgage and want to stay - so do that and reclaim your enjoyment of your local community! See or chat to people whose company you enioy, minimise interaction with any who’re enmeshed with him or don’t respect your boundary about not talking about loser ex.

@Dozer yes and it is also harder to do things like maintain your friends and life etc when the person himself also does not have any friends and we have fallen into this pattern of seeing each other like, every day, from the start. He has said he doesn't mind if I want an evening to myself to do something else but it is always always me suggesting it, never him. Which somehow just makes me feel guilty

Thank you @dozer

You can break that bad habit/pattern immediately - V v unhealthy even if the relationship was otherwise OK!

Even if you’re not ready yet to end the relationship, take a proper chunk of time away from him, and turn your phone(s) off! Ideally go away somewhere, or if not just don’t see or speak to him for a few days.

Bet he’d rock up at your door bringing drama! No need to open it.

I learned this stuff the hard way.

He has done some really weird passive agressive stuff as well that in his mind is probably just being nice.

Like once after we had argued or weren't talking or something he went and got my post and left it outside and I said thanks you didn't need to, can't you see how weird that behaviour is instead of just talking to me, and obviously he couldn't see that and my memory is hazy but presumably we had another argument from that.

Yes that is a good idea @dozer. I would like to do that this weekend actually. However I have left a craft project at his that I want to work on...ahh maybe I will just go and get it and say I am having the weekend to myself (this never happens, every weekend with him) nicely and not feel guilty about it.

Also I have realised the accusations about me being angry etc when I am initially calm, although probably annoyed in some way yes (otherwise I wouldn't be trying to raise something) he clearly is just accusing that because I am holding my ground and not refusing to back down, I am waiting for an apology or explanation.

Eg we had argument where I was trying to say that him saying something in a certain way didn't help my mental health. Trying to be as calm and nice as possible. Rather than accepting and understanding my view and feelings and saying ok I will do differently, he twisted it on me and said well that isn't the problem is it, it's how you think (because it is really so easy for somebody suffering with mental health to just change how they think) and because I didn't accept that and was just trying to say but you could help me by doing this differently, eg not backing down on my point, he started raging and accusing me of being angry. He actually stormed off swearing and locked himself in a room and I just left and got really upset by myself at home.

You don't have to see him every day if you don't want to. When I am in a relationship I say to them I want to see them once or twice a week and certainly not every single weekend. Healthy relationships need space and time with separate groups of friends. No man is worth giving up all your free time for.

I know @Bananalanacake , and I am somebody that really needs a lot of alone time as well as time to do other things. I think it just happened because we live so close. I always end up feeling smothered though. But I am the only one that ever suggests we spend some time apart, it is bizarre.

Also I dislike the fact on many occasions he has just said "see you tomorrow" without even asking just presuming. Obviously he is used to it being like that but it always irritates me. And of course I can't mention anything as he might just go off on a rage or be like, oh there is another thing he can't do/say which is something else he has used in arguments.

I realise I am just going off topic now and just venting but arggh

Draw a line and move on, it really doesn't have to be this hard

You're running it all through in your head and weighing the evidence to determine if it really is that bad, and if you really should leave.

It really is that bad. This guy is a total headfuck.

The fact he has tried and failed to have long-term relationships is a HUGE red flag in my experience. Those other women worked it out, too.

He honestly sounds personality disordered verging on sociopathic.

Do you have the freedom programme where you live?

Have a read up on cluster B personality disorders. I think you might find some insights about him there .

Thanks everyone. As I am going through my own diagnosis I have been reading up on lots of things and yes, some of it has reminded me of him.

The fact is regardless of whether or not I am diagnosed with anything myself, I am with somebody that will not acknowledge or address his own issues, not in any big way anyway.

He did say once he was very depressed but somehow just cured himself without therapy or medication. But he clearly didn't do that much work on himself in all the years he was single.

I don't know I am just constantly so confused and paranoid, questioning my own sanity, I have definitely deteriorated hugely in this relationship to become such a hysterical wreck and so desperate and pathetic at the end of most arguments. I did not get anywhere near this bad in my last (healthier) relationship, never had any concerns like this at all.

He also has used the fact my ex left me against me too. Saying yes well he left because he clearly couldn't talk to me about anything.

Well I recognise the part I played in that relationship ending but seriously. It is me trying to talk to him that causes problems! He doesn't try to talk to me, if he does have any resentments they just build up and then he conveniently explodes when it is actually me trying to discuss something.

I do feel like he has absorbed all this information about my past and is now using it in arguments. Yes I am not perfect, but I ultimately always apologise and am trying to figure myself out by going into therapy etc. What is he doing? Nothing.

I know it's no good.

I am not sure if there is a freedom programme near me but I understand it could be done online?

Thanks everyone.

I have been in a relationship Exactly like this and it lasted nearly 4 years.. like you there were arguments very early on clearly caused by him that resulted in periods of not taking.. let me tell you it got SO much worse as time went on. Early
on he would actually take ownership for the wrongs he did and would shower me with flowers etc afterwards only to do the same thing again.

Not now he is AWFUL like you described he leaves me in floods of tears won’t seem to give a shit be so fukin cold towards me walk out of my flat when I’m crying etc and give me the silent treatment sometimes went on for months and would only end if i messaged him. All of this when he is the one in the wrong.

It sounds very similar.. he also pushes me to the point I can be cruel as well and I get very worked up.. I’ve never known anyone to make me so angry and as years went on I could feel the rage building untill i shamefully hit him in the face during a argument and I don’t mean slap . I punched him and hard. May get slated for that but I was not proud of it felt terrible after but when someone is laughing at you when your crying it’s not nice.

I don’t have any advice as I haven’t managed to fully escape yet but just to let you know the on and off cycle will continue if you let it but I know how hard it is to break it... I’ve dated others during off periods but when they mess up or I go off the person I go straight back to my ex.

In my experience it will get worse.. I never had a Rship like this Before and at the start the arguments then him chasing me after I ended it made me feel he really loved me.. the chasing and apologies stopped but the arguments escalated and got worse and worse. I hope you are okay

@Bex19999 I am sorry to hear your struggles and quite frankly don't blame you for ending up hitting him. In fact I think it was quite strong of you. Whereas when I am in a meltdown after an argument I am just so teary, hysterical, desperate and frankly pathetic.

Obviously I realise violence is wrong and there is no excuse for it but I do think some men do literally drive us to break down in this way, apparently it is called reactive abuse, and then of course they like the way we react badly because they can hold it over our heads and say look, she is the crazy one, look, she is abusive. It is like a form of mental torture.

So yes I have not been violent but I have suffered total meltdowns, and probably said and texted a few quite nasty things myself, so I am constantly questioning myself and how awful I must be too, but I know this relationship like you is just like nothing I have ever experienced before, in some ways a lot worse even than being with an ex 15 years ago that was very physically violent!!!

It honestly sounds like we are actually dating the same person. And yes it is very hard to stay away. And yes at the start of mine whenever we would argue he would stay away for a while and I was so confused as I have not experienced that before either. Normally he would get back in touch (occasionally apologise) and I would give in. But now of course the tables are turned, it is always me apologising, me begging, me running back, as for some reason I can no longer be alone

Also it's so funny as when I once tried to talk to him about all those silent periods, he was just like well I thought that was what you wanted, you wanted space. I was just ??? Never experienced it before.

I did go through a few periods myself early on where I didnt respond to his messages as much, distanced myself a lot and also yes tried to break up a few times. So on the one hand I could be like yeah I feel guilty for that and it wasn't great behaviour but on the other hand, there was a reason for this. I had bad gut feelings, there were red flags, we were arguing from the start with his crazy temper, I also wasn't sure if I was even ready for a relationship at that point, I was also depressed over my life breaking down before I met him, and honestly the amount of over the top soppy messages he sent me at the start were often too much.

But of course he now also holds that period of time over my head too.

Not to mention the fact that he was the one that went straight to "oh just break up with me then" during our first argument. I was like what. One argument and that's enough to ruin the foundations of a relationship. Such bizarre behaviour. And then after that he was often pulling that in every disagreement, let's break up. Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. And of course now I have got to the point in the past few arguments where I have done the same because frankly I don't care anymore.

I don't know I am rambling but it seems like exactly the same guy. Maybe we need to support each other to get through and out of it!!!

"so fucking cold" yes definitely @Bex19999 so so so cold!!!

And now he is back to being all kind and nice and caring after the last argument a few weeks ago and I am just struggling. Because I can't get over the coldness anymore. But like I said in another post maybe it is a good sign that I am finally getting strength and progress. Maybe it is a good sign that I am not falling for it so easily now and have had this mental wall up for a few weeks, (and a whole lot of feeling very low as well)

Yes he chased me and apologised to me too at the start during that early period when I tried to get out. It has totally stopped now. It sounds exactly the same.