Page 2 | Questions for the 'other women' out there

owyesiwas · 20/10/2020 00:06

Yes I was - we're were together for about 4 years before he actually left. He had young children and didn't want to leave when they were so small. I eventually gave him an ultimatum fully prepared to walk away. That was 6 or 7 years ago.

Do you ever feel any remorse?
Yes I feel very bad that I was involved in such dishonesty even when I realised he was in a relationship and they actually had only just got married to try and patch things up I couldn't resist seeing him

Do you feel like you 'won' the man? I wanted the validation of him leaving as the alternative was that I was a fool and I was besotted with him
do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship?
Yes I feel very bad but can never make amends. His wife refused to let the children see me for about a year or so after they split and also made sure they felt terrible having anything to do with me which was bad (for them and me)
do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies? No not really
Do you ever tell people the truth about how your relationship started? Yes sometimes if I am good friends with them but I always say I'm not proud of it obviously

Bubblebu · 20/10/2020 00:07

"no kids or anything involved but his callousness in the way he treated me still stings."

In the same way it is very common for the OW to decide that the wife was a total nightmare as described by the spouse who abandons; it is also very common for the spouse who abandons to at some point flip the switch and to behave in a very callous way towards the abandoned wife.

They are both congnitive disonnance and a way where both the ex and the OW do not have to genuinely acknowledge the pain and rubble of the lives the ex has left behind.

And the bit you mention about your ex buying you a dog and then now he has bought the OW a dog. Again Ive seen several cases (as well as my own) where the abandoning spouse follows a lot of the patterns and experiences he went through with you with the OW.

In my case my ex husband to the letter (in the early days) took his OW to all the very same restaurants, short break holidays, flowers from the same florist he used for me etc. I found that painful as I was sentimental about those experiences at the time, but now I see he really was not thinking about any of our history at all - he was just thinking (consciously or subconsciously) "I know how to start a relationship". So the puppy you mention must hurt but try not to attribute too much to it. xx

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 20/10/2020 00:12

As someone who has been on the receiving end of some serious attention from attached men - and who fell for one years and years ago (he left her. I actually told him I wasn't going to have an affair and broke up with him and he left her.) I can tell you that an OW had almost certainly been given chapter and verse on how your relationship has been over for years. That you don't love him or want him but want him to look after you/the kids.

And another common one is that at least one of the children were accidents. That he loves them but would never be with you if it wasn't for them. There's a lot of resentment from men towards women who accidentally fall pregnant. They love their kids but they never forgive their partners, especially not when it's more than once.

So when you are a little more naive you tend to think that their wives don't love them. I remember being astonished - as was he at her level of pain. But no I never felt like I'd won anything. I just felt like shit. And he felt so guilty (I think he really thought it would be ok) at what he had done he wasn't great with me either. He never went back to her and she moved on and was happy. I think they were both trapped but no one wants to be the one that's left do they? Even if they can see the writing on the wall.

To get a most single women to the point of having a relationship with a married man he has to have told a LOT of lies over an extended period of time. I'm sure there are a few who see it as 'winning' but that's not the way most women look at it, it's more like he's trapped and unhappy and this is a real connection 🙄🙄

That's why they end up with younger women. Because they are naive enough to believe it.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 20/10/2020 00:21

@crossroads1 my situation was I was with the ex for nearly 6 years on the verge of getting engaged. no kids or anything involved but his callousness in the way he treated me still stings.

He wasn't into you. 6 years and only on the verge' of getting engaged? No, I'm sorry, he was just marking time with you. That sounds cruel but it will set you free. This is obviously very unresolved for you but this wasn't the relationship you thought you had.

OldWomanSaysThis · 20/10/2020 00:24

I was involved with a few married or attached men 30 years ago. Not love affairs, just play time.

Well, there was one I actually liked but he had lied about his status and once I figured out, I threw a drink on him at a restaurant and walked out.

The others were all very much in love with their wives and thought highly of them. We were just messing around. It meant nothing and I would hope no marriage would end because of it.

Generally, these men were just bored. One man had a harem of women - he was amazing in bed, well practiced. Another was just in from out of town to give a speech. He was gorgeous.

But, again, meaningless.

SoulofanAggron · 20/10/2020 00:49

Do you ever feel any remorse?

I am starting to feel more remorse for the wives/partners. It's not something I should've done.

Do you feel like you 'won' the man?

I did feel like I won the main one, but he turned out to be a bit crap really. He thought I was a sexual performing seal and got pissed off if I did anything else like read a book. And he somehow took me for granted. I should have left him to her and my life might've gone a very diffeerent way (though of course I don't know if that would've been in a good or bad way- we split up but he's my best friend that takes good care of me, and I might have ended up in a bad way without him.

do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship?

Sometimes nowadays. But in reality only the blokes can break up their marriages.

Do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies?

I did trust him but I probably shouldn'tve done. He did cheat on me a couple of times.

Do you ever tell people the truth about how your relationship started?

I have done. I just see it as one of those things now. It's so long ago I don't see it as reflecting on my current self. I did go on to get involved with a married man again (just sex- a very exploitative guy. ) But intend never to again. Mumsnet has taught me a lot and helped me see it from the wives'/girlfriends' perspective, more of a perspective of sisterhood. It was a moral blind spot I had before for some reason.

@crossroads1 Have you thought of having some sort of therapy if you're finding it difficult to get your head around things? It can be good if you find a therapist that suits you.

Sleephead1 · 20/10/2020 06:22

Hi op I was someones bit on the side for about 4 months when I was 18. He was ten years older and had a partner and a child. I feel bad about it now and dont know why I did it ( I didnt know at first but found out after a few weeks). At the time I didnt really consider his partner and I wouldnt have classed myself as a threat to his relationship as I just saw it as fun.I didnt see him as a prize or anything I could win. He then just disappeared only to turn up a few weeks later on a night out drunk and apologising. I later found out he did this regularly so I was one of many.

LambChopAndAsparagus · 20/10/2020 06:29

Not me, married/attached men are a complete no go and I feel insulted rather than flattered by any married/attached man who makes a move.

But an ex friend of mine was.

Do you ever feel any remorse? she didn't. She believed it was the wife's fault for not being good enough.

Do you feel like you 'won' the man? yes she did

do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship? no and she was very hostile in the way she spoke about his wife, including her refusal to allow my friend to meet their children

do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies? yes she trusted him completely given that she believed it was the right thing to do and that she was his 'the one'.

Do you ever tell people the truth about how your relationship started? no. I was the only person who knew and was sworn to secrecy. It was part of what ended the friendship because I couldn't handle having to lie and hear her and other people talk about them in a way they wouldn't if they had known the truth.

They split up after 3 difficult years when he would often go AWOL emotionally (they worked together so she still saw him every day). It transpired that he was on dating sites and had started seeing someone else before completely ghosting her.

She was heartbroken but I found it difficult to have any sympathy for her - she knew he was married when they met. It was sheer arrogance on her part.

He was undoubtedly dissatisfied in his marriage but the sheer misogyny in the way my 'friend' spoke about his wife was shocking. I warned her she was likely to be an exit affair. We had a huge argument about it.

I was right 🤷🏻‍♀️

Still makes me cross to think about it tbh.

LambChopAndAsparagus · 20/10/2020 06:33

It was obviously an exit affair because of the way he treated her but he was lonely and wanted sex until someone more suited to him came along. She tied herself up in knots trying to accept obvious incompatibilities.

She should have ended it a hundred times before he finally did.

Zagziggirl · 20/10/2020 06:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nonstoprestlessleg · 20/10/2020 07:13

OP I have been the OW, unknowingly once and knowingly once.

Having worked in jobs that have until recently been very dominated by men over the last 30 years, my view and experience is that all men cheat if or when they get the chance.

If they leave their wives for a certain other woman, it is because their marriage relationship is broken in some way and the woman they are seeing at the time is the one who is around, but most of the time men cheat in small and big ways but still love their wives and the family unit and stay in the marriage. I’d hazard a guess that the man who leaves his wife for an OW won’t have had his first experience of cheating with her. Usually there is a legacy of extra martial sex and extra marital relationships and the OW sees herself as the latest one in a narrative rather than the originator of the problem if you know what i mean?

Another thing I’d say is that there are many OW who don’t want the drudgery of a marriage / daily life in a relationship and all that entails (step kids, housework etc.) They want the best bits of the man they are having an affair with. So there is no concept of winning the man. Winning for the OW is having the enjoyment of the relationship without the mundane bits.

I don’t think it is on the OW’s head to feel remorse, especially if the man has a legacy of cheating. The attitude is - he was doing it anyway, so why not with me?

I do not trust any man I am with not to cheat if the opportunity arises and no-one will find out, whether our relationship started as an affair or not.

Namechangeinoctober · 20/10/2020 07:24

Do you ever feel any remorse?I did at first. Not anymore. She's shown her true colours in unrelated things (as recent as a a couple of weeks ago) and sometimes I feel he deserves a medal.

Do you feel like you 'won' the man?at first yes, but not "the man" I'm general. It's a very odd power struggle/play.

do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship? I didn't. It was already broken. He had already checked out and she found a new boyfriend within three months she's now engaged.

do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies? It didn't start on lies, he never lies to me. I always knew he was married

Do you ever tell people the truth about how your relationship started? All of our close friends know, but I don't tell new people we meet as it's completely irrelevant.

Whitehorsewaves · 20/10/2020 09:28

MarriedtoDaveGrohl

As harsh as the above poster's comment was, they have a point.

If he was with you for 6 years and you were only on the verge of getting engaged, then he wasn't seeing your relationship as a long term prospect and in all likelihood was just waiting for another women to come along. Some men just don't like being alone.

He is the one who messed you around, used you and dumped you. Direct your anger at him.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 20/10/2020 09:40

@Whitehorsewaves

MarriedtoDaveGrohl

As harsh as the above poster's comment was, they have a point.

If he was with you for 6 years and you were only on the verge of getting engaged, then he wasn't seeing your relationship as a long term prospect and in all likelihood was just waiting for another women to come along. Some men just don't like being alone.

He is the one who messed you around, used you and dumped you. Direct your anger at him.

There isn't really a way to put it that sounds nice, unfortunately. I think that a man who can't quite get engaged is either a) not ever going to or b) not ever going to with you and you are good enough but not the one for him.

Sunshineandflipflops · 20/10/2020 09:49

My ex husband had an affair with a younger woman at work and i found out and told him to leave.

Would he have ever left me for her? I don't know. I certainly found messages between them suggesting it was a matter of 'when' they were together properly, not 'if'.

I firmly believe that as others have said, he painted a false picture to her (and others) about our marriage as justification for his actions. There was nothing wrong with our marriage other than the usual 'been together a long time, had 2 kids who obviously took up a lot of time and mental energy' but he would have hated to be seen as the bad guy by people so made up a story about having been unhappy for a while (couldn't have fooled me).

When I asked him to leave, he stayed with the OW for a couple of years but the reality was that she was in a completely different stage of life to him (no kids, never married, etc whereas he was married with 2 kids and had had the snip as was done with that). From what I gather she resented the time he spent with our children (thankfully he is a better dad than husband) and things ended.

I have no idea if she feels remorse but I also have no idea what he told her about me/our marriage in the first place.

My ex is now with someone 2 years older than him, with 2 kids.

Original poster

crossroads1 · 20/10/2020 10:28

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl @Whitehorsewaves I think you’re missing the point of my OP. I’m not debating that the relationship was crap and I had the majority of my anger directed towards him.

My OP is to find out more about the OW perspective. I have morals and could never imagine cheating on or facilitating cheating to help another Decieve their partners which is why I asked those specific questions.

OP posts:

CthulhuInDisguise · 20/10/2020 10:36

I was the OW at 17, unknown to me until much later. I was a virgin when we met, and he waited until after we had sex the first time to tell me he was still married (he was literally still inside me)

Do you ever feel any remorse? I did at first but not any more because he was abusive and set his wife free from a lifetime of beatings and rape
Do you feel like you 'won' the man? I did, he left her for me, but he wasn't a prize really
do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship? not really any more due to the abuse - I was as much a victim as her
do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies? I did trust him until he started abusing me
Do you ever tell people the truth about how your relationship started? I didn't need to, he was open about it and introduced me to all his friends, colleagues and family as his girlfriend before he had even left his wife.

As you can tell, ours was not a happy ending and while I regret the initial hurt caused to her, I now know she is happier than ever and so am I since he sodded off. He took advantage of my naivety and his actions were not those of a married man - no cloak and dagger stuff, we stayed over at his parents house regularly, I was treated by them and his brother like a member of the family. There were no indications that he was anything other than a separated man back living with his mum and dad.

ravenmum · 20/10/2020 10:40

Aren't the motivations and behaviour the same for the OW/OM as for the cheating partner?

HappyThursdays · 20/10/2020 10:48

I was the OW but I didn't know and I suspect the large majority of OW have no idea

he told me he had broken up with his ex. I only discovered after I broke up with him when I got an anonymous letter from her telling me that he was still with her the entire time we went out (and we were together more than a year!). I confronted him after I got the letter and he admitted it.

I'm no fool either and I still can't believe that he was able to deceive me for that long and it was a proper deception. He must have been making up lies every single day. I'm amazed anyone has the time or energy for it!

Namechangeinnovember · 20/10/2020 10:51

I don't think so @ravenmum . I was tired of my married life and wanted to live a little, where it lead me I couldn't care less. My now husband is a serial monogamist who doesn't know how to be alone. I know if my time comes there will be an "overlap" on his side. I don't think it will, but I can't say haven't been warned.

rorosemary · 20/10/2020 10:51

[quote crossroads1]@rorosemary the OW knew about me, she had even met me, yet they both still persisted. I am not denying his disgusting behaviour, to me he is the most awful type of human being but she also played a part, she knew he was going to propose to me yet they both still persisted.

If you are unaware that the person you're seeing is committed that is a totally diff story. BUT if you know all about the gf/wife and have met them and yet still go ahead what kind of a person are you?[/quote]
I kept my story very short by saying that I dumped him when I found out that I was the OW, and I did, but he told many stories to get me back. We had beentogether for 5 months at that point and I can easily believe it if other women feel invested in the relationship and believe the lies they are told. He was going to leave her, the relationship was bad, but he couldn't leave her just yet because she was ill, I was the one he loved, if it was true love I'd wait for him because he was trying to be a decent guy by caring for her in her illness. He shouldn't be taken away from true happiness with me by doing the decent thing, surely I wouldn't want him to be such a person.

I can easily believe that plenty of women who are in love would want to believe the lies.

ravenmum · 20/10/2020 11:04

@Namechangeinnovember

I don't think so *@ravenmum* . I was tired of my married life and wanted to live a little, where it lead me I couldn't care less. My now husband is a serial monogamist who doesn't know how to be alone. I know if my time comes there will be an "overlap" on his side. I don't think it will, but I can't say haven't been warned.

Obviously, each individual is different, but don't you think the potential list of motivations and behaviours are the same?

suggestionsplease1 · 20/10/2020 11:11

[quote crossroads1]**@MarriedtoDaveGrohl* @Whitehorsewaves* I think you’re missing the point of my OP. I’m not debating that the relationship was crap and I had the majority of my anger directed towards him.

My OP is to find out more about the OW perspective. I have morals and could never imagine cheating on or facilitating cheating to help another Decieve their partners which is why I asked those specific questions.[/quote]
Everyone has different personality traits OP. What has generally been found is that people who are happier to cheat score higher in the 'dark triad' personality tests: psychopathy, Machiavellianism (cynicism, amorality, manipulativeness), and narcissism (arrogance and self-centeredness, with a strong sense of entitlement).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

If you read further about it there seems to be a substantial genetic component to these traits, over and above environmental influences - so maybe people are just born that way? (In evolutionary terms these traits can at time be considered adaptive, possibly leading to greater reproductive success etc, which is why they persist in people.)

Does it help to consider that this might be what makes it easier for some people to cheat without remorse?

Namechangeinnovember · 20/10/2020 11:16

I think there are two type of cheaters (usually they list more types) but I think it's a simple as the "exit" ones and the ones that like their status quo (the cake eaters).

Having only experienced the first type I guess the common denominator is the dissatisfaction in the primary/first relationship. They usually have checked out and there's no turning back. I think they're cowards in a way? There's no deceit (to the AP) in the grand scheme of things. Many years have passed now and I can definitely see why he wanted to leave (I would have!) But he definitely needed an external motivation.

Like I mentioned before I did feel bad to start with, but as time has passed and from both their behaviours she was mourning a relationship that had died a long time ago.

I'm not going to deny I was a facilitator but he's still definitely at fault. We don't think about it in those terms anymore. But it was a long way to reach where we are.

Whitehorsewaves · 20/10/2020 11:23

@crossroads1

I don't think we're missing the point just offering a different perspective. The state of your relationship would very much influence how the OW felt and would influence the answers to your questions. For example:

Do you ever feel any remorse?

"no because he told me their relationship was over, that she wanted to get engaged and he didn't want to but didn't want to hurt her."

Do you feel like you 'won' the man?

"no because there was nothing to win. He told me the relationship was dead in the water and they were just going through the motions".

do you ever think about what you did breaking up a relationship?

"There wasn't anything to break up. They weren't married or had kids. He didn't see a future and wanted out".

do you trust your partner knowing that the relationship started on lies?

"he hasn't lied to me. He said he wanted out so he left"

Do you tell people?

"yes because he was going to break up with her anyway."

You see my point. For all you know he could have been saying all the above to her for months, in which case she's not going to feel what you want to hear.