Staying with someone you're not "in" love with

[Dontwanttooutmyself]

DH (38) and I (40) have been together for 14 years. We have two DC (10 and 8). DH is a nice man, and we have a nice ("perfect") life together. I care very much for him, but I'm not in love with him anymore.

We very rarely argue but there is a lot of (silent) resentment from me on various things and small events that have happened over the years - his emotional unavailability, his selfishness, his lack of contribution to the mental load, his personal hygeine and the fact that I now out-earn him by 100%.

I feel like DH is another child - I still care about him greatly, but I feel deeply unattracted to a man for whom I have to buy pants and remind to brush his teeth. My sex drive has dropped to zero with him - to the point of actively avoiding it (when we used to have a great sex life).

I've tried ADs and fixed various aspects of my life (medical and physical) that I knew were making me unhappy (and contributing to the lack of sex drive) but the problem is still there.

DH is perfectly content (apart from the sex thing, which is starting to become a real issue) and has no realisation that I'm so unhappy.

My DD adores her father and he is with her, the perfect parent. But DS has a difficult relationship with DH - they fight and DH finds it very hard to be the grownup with him, arguing and then leaving me to "fix" the now crying child. When DH is away (frequently, on his hobby), I find it so much easier, as I only have two people to parent. I've now done the calculations and financially, I could probably afford to stay in the family home and buy him out. It'll be tight, but not impossible.

So what do I do next? I like "being married" and I'm terrified that I'll end up single for the rest of my life as DH was my first serious relationship (a "friend" kindly told me in my singledom-ness of my twenties that I wasn't the sort of girl that men want to marry). Do I try again to go to counselling (which I've tried DH to do before, but he refuses). Do I stay with him till the DC are grown (and hope that things improve)? Or do I shatter the DC's lives and split up - the thought of the upset on my DD's face if we split up, or the risk that the trauma will cause her EDs or depression in her teens is terrifying.

Has anyone else stayed with someone for the sake of the DC? Did you regret it? Did you fall back in love eventually?

He doesn't sound like a nice man at all and I don't like the way he plays your children. It sounds rather like DD is the golden child and DS the scapegoat. For that alone I would leave, never mind the rest of it!

I think counselling for yourself will help to process how you’re feeling and give you the clarity and confidence to decide your next steps - whether that is to continue to try, seek couples counselling or to start a divorce.

Good luck

I left a relationship of 10yrs where I wasn't happy or in love. I was lucky enough to be able to keep the family home. I get along fine with the ex now and recently we spent the day together at my house. It was a reminder that I am so glad not to be in that relationship anymore and I am 100% happier on my own! It took the dc time adjust but we have a good routine where they regularly see their dad and everyone is doing fine.

If he won’t go to counselling (and why not, if he is committed to the relationship), then go on your own. Might help crystallise your thinking. I personally think life is too short to live the way you are living now - do you really want another ten plus years of this... but only you can decide

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?
And as for that "friend" who told you such utter tripe, words fail me. I sincerely hope that person is not a friend any longer.

What do you get out of this relationship now?

You have a house but its not a home nor a sanctuary for you and your kids. Better to be from a so called "broken" home than to remain in one.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. That a loveless marriage could well be their norm too?. All your DH cares about is his own self here, no-one else matters to him because you are all but possessions to him. You are seeing a scapegoat (DS) and golden child (DD) dynamic here and that will really mess them up going forward, let alone their own relationship between siblings. This is no legacy nor relationship model they should be seeing and learning from. I think your children and you would all be far happier going forward if you were to split up and sooner rather than later. They probably wonder of you why you are still with their miserable fun sponge of a dad at all.

Go to counselling on your own; joint counselling would never be recommended in your case anyway and besides which he won't go. He has done you a favour really by refusing because you need to be able to talk in both a calm and safe environment. Couples counselling is a non starter here anyway given the ways in which he treats you all.

I always think it's a mistake to stay together for the children. They know if you're unhappy. I don't believe you can fall back in love with someone.
You say he's unaware of your silent resentment, why ? You need to speak to him, in counselling if necessary. He's 38, let him buy his own pants.
Your friend who said people don't marry women like you is an idiot.

My mum decided not to leave my dad for the kids. My dad showed us how to be contemptuous and not to value my mum. I've spent years unlearning that behaviour. I really resent it.

Honestly sounds like you just need a little courage. You know you don't want to be with him. Be brave and live a life that makes you feel that you are not supporting somebody that can't even shower. It's that basic.
You have it all together all ready. You'll be a lot happier.

Thank you all.

@AttilaTheMeerkat no, that girl is no longer a friend. The death knell was the day she told me not to bother losing weight for my wedding as I'd always be a fat girl (I was only a size 14!). (Enjoyed walking down the aisle in a size 10). Why would couples counselling not be recommended for me?

@Doughnut100 - I'm really sorry to hear that. But thank you for sharing (although that's slightly shaken me).

I'm surprised at the comments, TBH, as I wouldn't have judged DH so harshly. Perhaps I've just become immune to his behaviour and accepted it as normal?

I left my husband when my dc were 8 and 10

There is no easy path through life but I have found this to be true: when you are living an authentic life, you can cope with everything better and be a happier, therefore better mum.

Having a husband who needs to be ‘mothered’ really kills your relationship. - every time you buy his pants or rescue him in his ‘parenting’ - it’s a death by a thousand cuts.

Plus if he treats you like this he is an awful role model to both your kids about what a ‘father’ is.

You’re not wrong to want and indeed expect, more.

If the finances would look ok I would say you’re close to building a better life. It’s just your emotions that need to get to the same place.

If you go to counselling you might find it really helpfu.

If you feel like you're with a child, no wonder you don't fancy him. I do think you're a bit harsh on the earnings thing though as not everyone is cut put to earn what you do for various reasons. It doesn't mean they don't have strengths elsewhere....trouble is.....he's not displaying those strengths either.

What you need to do is take a step back. Realise that despite not behaving like one, he is an adult. For too long, you have revolved around him, lost the big picture and might have been enabling his behaviour (which is not your fault, just the consequence of your dynamic).

Sit him down, very seriously, and say that you will no longer remind him to brush his teeth or anything to do with personal hygiene. Say, if you want, that you have been infantilizing him and that is now going to stop. As an adult, he must decide on what's right for him and take the consequences (like having more filling done or teeth pulled).

BUT, just as he has the right to decide for himself what to do as an adult, you too have a right to decide who you live with, who you are in a marriage with and who you have sex with. If he chooses to do the above things, and relies on you to manage him, then you no longer want to be with him.

If he does change, then you need to have another sit down where you clearly volunteers to do certain tasks with the kids or around the house and takes responsibility to do them and to do them correctly to a standard that you both agree on.

It sounds like it's bad, but the fear of it being worse is keeping you in your current unhappy position.

You might like the concept of marriage, but you don't like the marriage you're in.

Find another. For what it's worth, I truly wish my mum had left my useless dad when I was a kid, rather than staying. I could sense the tension even if they weren't arguing, and I think I was affected by this for a long time, to the extent that it negatively affected my self perception and my conduct in relationships as an adult. I would have had far more respect for my mum if she'd left and made an independent way in life, rather than having me watch her suffer a miserable relationship.

Take the bull by the horns, get yer big boots on, and end it.

@EarthSight - yes, I know it feels harsh saying I resent him for not earning as much as me, and I feel really guilty for feeling like that, but it's a big part of things. We started out as equals (in terms of salary and where we were in our career aspirations) but whilst I worked really hard to get the salary I have (long hours and extremely stressful) because I want to give my kids a good life, he's gone backwards. I feel that if he put the effort into work that I have (or that he puts into his hobby) he'd be able to contribute more. I think again its the feeling of being the only adult in the house.

[quote Dontwanttooutmyself]@EarthSight - yes, I know it feels harsh saying I resent him for not earning as much as me, and I feel really guilty for feeling like that, but it's a big part of things. We started out as equals (in terms of salary and where we were in our career aspirations) but whilst I worked really hard to get the salary I have (long hours and extremely stressful) because I want to give my kids a good life, he's gone backwards. I feel that if he put the effort into work that I have (or that he puts into his hobby) he'd be able to contribute more. I think again its the feeling of being the only adult in the house.[/quote]
What's his hobby? I devote a lot of time to a creative hobby and I need to do it. When I had a normal job that I hated I would have gone bonkers if I didn't. Someone times being creative is a curse as well as a blessing. I understand though why people wouldn't understand that.

I think you must be quite a conscientious person, which are often the most competent and financially successful people in life. Please have a look at what that means in terms of the Big 5 personality model in psychology on Youtube or online. It might explain a few things and might help you in future relationships. I think his earnings might be important to you, but I think it's more than that. You want someone you respect, and I don't think you do respect him anymore. You want someone who is on top of things, who is reasonably organised, able to manage, doesn't have to be told what to do, competent, diligent and has sufficient basic personal hygiene. Because he's not those things, I think the earnings is a bigger issue that it otherwise would be. You probably feel alone, pulling the cart by yourself.

Sometimes*

I get you massively. I love my partner. but I'm not in love. He's the kindest and sweetest bloke. But as we have got older and ten years into our relationship we just seem different. Our conversation doesn't match up. We don't have sex. We have different patterns. We are never energised and spend our time just doing jobs and things. Nothing seems that fun anymore.

The older I get the more I wonder if many people ever truly find someone perfect for the rest of their days? But we are expected to make it work for financial reasons or for family reasons. Ofcourse that's a very important thing and everyone should give it their best. But when it starts to feel unnatural and forced it is questionable why we have to go through the torture when we would be happier alone or elsewhere. I don't know why life has forced us to all focus on forevers. I know people get hurt. But divorce and separation is very common. For most it isn't forever.

My loneliness got really bad in the last few months. I'm doing better now. But I was tempted to start something up with a man I didn't really know. We were both interested but we didn't openly say much about it. It was clear in lots of ways. But it just didn't happen and that's probably for the best. But at the time I wanted to feel the firsts again. I'm not proud of having those thoughts but it is quite sad when you feel like you want to feel close to someone again.

It's definitely hard and I don't have much advice. But yeah I understand

Hmmm, about 15 years ago our relationship was in some ways similar to yours. My DW had a rocky relationship with the DC, often flying into tempers with them for very minor misdemeanours - not tidying the kitchen for instance - and she made no contribution financially, making hopeless and ill-planned attempts to start businesses. I often felt she was like a third child and I told her so on more than one occasion. I never considered taking jobs that would involve a lot of travel or long distance commuting as I was afraid of the consequences for the DC if I was not there to act as a shock absorber for her anger.

But, rather to my surprise, our relationship has endured and we are still together. Our DC are grown up, both successful academically and close to us as parents though their attitude to their DM is noticeably less respectful.

Why did we come through it? Three main reasons I think. Although my DW never made a financial contribution she did not interfere or question my mangement of our finances and my own career, both of which have proved successful. So we could afford a nice house, cars, holidays, support the DC through uni etc and so I do not think they were denied anything they should have had because of her. The second reason is that her moods diminished over the years to the extent that they have now almost completely disappeared, and in any case there's no point being angry with the DC because they are grown up now and, I'm happy to say, won't take any of that kind of shit. And the third reason is that despite our problems we have always had an active and fulfilling sex life, I can remember one rather absurd occasion we were discussing the possibility of splitting up whilst in bed doing the deed. It's hard to be angry with someone who satisfies you in that way on a regular basis.

Of course not every relationship can be saved and sometimes splitting is the best option but things can get better over time, as we have done.

I'm sorry to hear that @Jelllytotss. Something I wonder a lot is whether there are people who are genuinely happy and still in love with their partners after 10, 20, 30 years. I know people have rough patches and I totally get that, but how long does the rough patch have to be for it to be more than a patch.

I suppose the scary thing is that the more I think about it (I've opened pandora's box in my head now) the more I think I've probably always known that this wasn't right. I loved him, I really did, and I pictured growing old with him. But I was quite damaged when I met him, and prioritised "niceness" over all else, including physical attraction and emotional connection. And it was so astonished that someone wanted to love me and spend time with me, I fell in love.

Thank you for the pointer to the Big 5 personality types - I shall go and look it up. But I very much do feel like the only one pulling the cart, emotionally, financially and mentally. I'm exhausted.

I liked being married but in the end I just had another child to look after.
We separated. It's worth thinking about the future before making any concrete decisions.
Go to counselling, go alone or together but definitely go.
I walked out of my second session knowing I wasn't going back either to counselling or to the marriage.
It's tough going, I'm not going to lie but this year has tested everyone in lots of ways.
Also, don't talk to people in rl about it until you are sure.

@Dontwanttooutmyself

DH (38) and I (40) have been together for 14 years. We have two DC (10 and 8). DH is a nice man, and we have a nice ("perfect") life together. I care very much for him, but I'm not in love with him anymore.

We very rarely argue but there is a lot of (silent) resentment from me on various things and small events that have happened over the years - his emotional unavailability, his selfishness, his lack of contribution to the mental load, his personal hygeine and the fact that I now out-earn him by 100%.

I feel like DH is another child - I still care about him greatly, but I feel deeply unattracted to a man for whom I have to buy pants and remind to brush his teeth. My sex drive has dropped to zero with him - to the point of actively avoiding it (when we used to have a great sex life).

I've tried ADs and fixed various aspects of my life (medical and physical) that I knew were making me unhappy (and contributing to the lack of sex drive) but the problem is still there.

DH is perfectly content (apart from the sex thing, which is starting to become a real issue) and has no realisation that I'm so unhappy.

My DD adores her father and he is with her, the perfect parent. But DS has a difficult relationship with DH - they fight and DH finds it very hard to be the grownup with him, arguing and then leaving me to "fix" the now crying child. When DH is away (frequently, on his hobby), I find it so much easier, as I only have two people to parent. I've now done the calculations and financially, I could probably afford to stay in the family home and buy him out. It'll be tight, but not impossible.

So what do I do next? I like "being married" and I'm terrified that I'll end up single for the rest of my life as DH was my first serious relationship (a "friend" kindly told me in my singledom-ness of my twenties that I wasn't the sort of girl that men want to marry). Do I try again to go to counselling (which I've tried DH to do before, but he refuses). Do I stay with him till the DC are grown (and hope that things improve)? Or do I shatter the DC's lives and split up - the thought of the upset on my DD's face if we split up, or the risk that the trauma will cause her EDs or depression in her teens is terrifying.

Has anyone else stayed with someone for the sake of the DC? Did you regret it? Did you fall back in love eventually?

"there is a lot of (silent) resentment from me on various things and small events that have happened over the years - his emotional unavailability, his selfishness, his lack of contribution to the mental load, his personal hygeine and the fact that I now out-earn him by 100%."

Well of course you wont feel in love with him if the above is happening. Have you actually openly discussed all these points with him AND made absolutely clear that these are potential dealbreakers that could cause a split unless resolved through counselling? People often bottle things up silently until they reach breaking point. I know you have suggested counselling before but I wonder whether he thinks the problems are not potentially relationship ending issues (you call them small events which have built up over time) which warrant investing in counselling and you both will just tick along as you currently have been doing, especially as you yourself have chosen to keep silent about your long term resentment

I don't think I've ever been in love with my husband. We have 3 children 13 11 and 3.
I keep telling him I don't love him. He even goggled quick divorce last week. I thought he was finally getting it. Then he starts acting all sad and saying i miss you. He keeps saying I love you and I can't bring myself to say it back anymore.

@Dontwanttooutmyself

Thank you all.

@AttilaTheMeerkat no, that girl is no longer a friend. The death knell was the day she told me not to bother losing weight for my wedding as I'd always be a fat girl (I was only a size 14!). (Enjoyed walking down the aisle in a size 10). Why would couples counselling not be recommended for me?

@Doughnut100 - I'm really sorry to hear that. But thank you for sharing (although that's slightly shaken me).

I'm surprised at the comments, TBH, as I wouldn't have judged DH so harshly. Perhaps I've just become immune to his behaviour and accepted it as normal?

Be aware OP that the default answers for a lot of posters on here is for families to just split up when marital problems are encountered. Of course there are many people on here seeking advice, for whom splitting is the obvious right thing to do but there was actually a thread on this forum some months back on this subject of a lot of posters being quick to just issue LTB advice.

At the end of the day, none of us are perfect, we have selfish traits, we all bring our baggage of some kind into relationships, life itself isnt perfect and is full of challenges and low points as well as the positive. You have to expect that there will always be problems encountered in relationships, especially if you've been together a long time, have kids and other things in life which put strain on the relationship. An intact family unit is worth fighting for, a lot of apparently insurmountable problems can be resolved and is the reason why counselling exists in the first place.

Be aware that most people saying 'ohh divorce does not affect children that much' etc are looking at it from an adult perspective. As a child of divorce, I can tell you that it very much does (and I agreed with my mum's reasons for separation which followed years of fights and various abusive behaviours).

Even as an adult, I still remember how horribly unsettling the reality of the split was (it changed me as a child), the horrible sadness and helplessness I felt (as a child/teen your whole bedrock you've known your whole life is literally falling apart).

Obviously I'm now used to my parents being apart but the sadness remains with me and my siblings that we no longer have Christmases and other family events together (going home for Christmas no longer has the same joy it had), also as adults having to continuously navigate the permanent 'politics' and inherent tension of having separated parents no matter how amicable they now are, and the unwelcome adjustments of the new partners of their choosing into what was previously our own family unit.

One of the most important things in life is family and to be truthful I find it hard not being envious of friends who have intact families (and I fully recognise no family is perfect) as it truly is different from having to deal with divorced parents. Even though our parents obviously still love us the same, the 'warmth' and true family feel is not there and it has affected how I approach my own relationships as an adult.

OP, at the end of the day whether you split or not is your decision, I just wanted to give the other side to the pro divorce/split and 'it has little effect on children narrative' that is so common on mumsnet which from not only my experience, but from that of friends and acquaintances, and research studies, is simply not the the case for the majority of children.

A lot of people on here have been through or instigated splits themselves and understandably, don't want to to think of the negative effects on children to avoid them feeling guilty. Perhaps as well there's an element of, if other people also divorce, there's comfort in the idea that they're not alone, as well as not having to face the fallout themselves if the OP splits from their spouse and breaks up the family.

It's often implied on here that you only have a binary choice of staying in a bad relationship without it changing, or breaking up the family. I would say there is almost always a third way,, which is looking to stay, but taking concrete actions and perhaps different approaches to what you tried before, to improve the relationship over time.

"I would say there is almost always a third way,, which is looking to stay, but taking concrete actions and perhaps different approaches to what you tried before, to improve the relationship over time"

Its not the OPs sole job to improve her relationship; her H has to want to be involved too and he does not seem at all interested. He seems happy as it is so why would he want to change that?. He gets an all encompassing hobby to do on the weekends as well!. She already has two children and she does not need a third i.e. to parent him as well. OP was talking about staying in the marriage for the sake of her children; this has been pointed out to her that this is not a good idea. This lady has also ended up on anti depressants probably due to his behaviours too.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"I would say there is almost always a third way,, which is looking to stay, but taking concrete actions and perhaps different approaches to what you tried before, to improve the relationship over time"

Its not the OPs sole job to improve her relationship; her H has to want to be involved too and he does not seem at all interested. He seems happy as it is so why would he want to change that?. He gets an all encompassing hobby to do on the weekends as well!. She already has two children and she does not need a third i.e. to parent him as well. OP was talking about staying in the marriage for the sake of her children; this has been pointed out to her that this is not a good idea. This lady has also ended up on anti depressants probably due to his behaviours too.

Where did I say it was her sole responsibility to improve the relationship? I had already made clear in my previous post that joint counselling was my suggestion. I had also suggested to OP that framing in a different way and clearly communicating the full extent of the problems (as she sees them), the resentment she's feeling, and the real danger of a split to the husband could actually help get him to counselling. The OP herself has said she has kept silent on the resentment and issues she feels (which is a common problem and would have worsened the situation by letting it build up). How do you expect him to know the full extent of what he needs to work on and her perception of things if he hasnt heard it properly? No human being is a mind reader.

Also if OP is more of a 'take control/organiser/get up and go person' he may have just fallen into the role of being 'parented' by a partner more dominant in this respect, and may actually think she doesnt mind or wants to be in that role, especially considering she does stuff she doesn't have to do e.g. buying him pants!

When I read the OP, I could actually very easily imagine a scenario where the husband would be shocked that she wanted to split as he wouldnt have considered a lot of the things she's brought up to be relationship ending material. On top of that, some of what she says actually just seems to be different personalities/life outlook. Some people are more laid back, less materialistic, and if they and their families have the necessities and a few comforts they're happy and dont consider the pursuit of more money/social status/material things to be a higher priority than other things (e.g. enjoying passions in life), seeing as earthly life is so short! OP's comment about his salary was quite telling. What's normally needed is some sort of a compromise and understanding on both sides and this is where counselling can help. The perceived lack of emotional availability could also simply be his way of dealing with stressful situations, or even his own resentment that has been building up that the OP is not fully aware about. Again, all of this can be exposed in counselling.

Even on the parenting issue, he would still be parenting the son if they split. And she would have even less control over what he does because they wouldn't be living together, plus there could be extra parenting problems that arise on top, caused by the split itself. There very often are, especially if you're parenting hormonal pre teen/ teens and you're now putting your children through the stress living between two homes and busting their family unit apart at a time when they'll already be going through the teen emotional changes and insecurities.

The son may be getting to an age when he's starting to question/push back on the authority of male figure in the home (which is a common stage in boys and is part of growing up). We don't know the ins and outs of what is going on with the son and father/son arguments at that stage are normal, with a lot of dads finding this stage hard to handle. The foundation of it could be that the OP is a more lenient parent and her husband more strict and for all we know, the boy knows that crying means he gets his way through his mother and 'gets back' at the dad this way. It's common to have somewhat different parenting styles but there needs to be some unity so even if you disagree on some things, you're both a 'unit'. Again counselling would be much more helpful in achieving this than a split!! It could help him see things better from his son's point of view and perhaps alter his approach where needed. As a boy, his father is a key and much needed role model. Part of being a parent, especially as you get to the teen years which can become troublesome and rebellious, is providing that male authority figure to help guide a son and bring him into line where necessary. All children need BOTH their parents as part of their development and he needs his dad just as much, not less.