Red flags or am I over sensitive?

[Tafelberg]

For context, my last long relationship was with an emotionally abusive man with narcissistic personality disorder - I’ve come a long way since then (it ended over a year ago) but my radar for that kind of behaviour is strong and I’m very wary of anything remotely resembling jealousy/possessiveness/manipulation etc.

I have recently been on a couple of dates with a guy I like. We’re taking it extremely slowly but getting on well and talk a lot in between seeing each other, both on the phone and via WhatsApp. However he’s said a couple of little things that have made my guard go up and I could do with other peoples’ opinions on if there is anything to worry about or I'm just reading too much into insignificant things.

First example, we were having a Whatsapp conversation one evening that had been back and forth for quite a while. At one point, my flatmate came in from her night out and I chatted to her for about ten minutes so didn’t reply to his last message for a bit. He sent one asking if his last message had been a bit much (we’d been talking about something quite personal) and when I said no and explained I’d been chatting to my flatmate, he said “don’t let me stop you from being social then”. I brushed it off and we carried on talking and nothing more was said about it.

The second example was this morning. I was talking about feeling hungover still, having been out with a (female) friend for drinks on Saturday night. He knew I’d been out and who with, but said something like “well that is impressive. Saturday night must have been fun.” He hasn’t read my reply to that yet (sent about an hour ago) but I know he’s working and doesn’t always read/respond immediately so that doesn’t mean anything necessarily. Reading that last example back, it looks so innocuous but something about it just made me think he might be annoyed.

What do you all think? Am I being over sensitive? I really don’t want to get into anything with someone who is going to be jealous or funny about me having time with my friends etc. But at the same time I don’t know how I can find out if that’s the kind of person he is, he’s hardly going to admit to it if I ask him. Any thoughts?

Clicked submit too soon.
Someone mentioned it sounded passive aggressive.
It could of course be passive aggressive or else he could be just being nice because they are also normal things to say when someone is being nice and normal lol

@user1481840227 no, interesting that you mention that - he never used emojis. It sounds silly but it really does make it a lot harder to sense the tone!
I really appreciate all the replies. The fact they’re so mixed makes me feel a bit better about being unsure as to whether there’s anything off with the messages or not. I guess I just have to give it a bit more time and hope that if there is an issue, it comes out sooner rather than later (before I’ve invested too much and get hurt).

I hate to sound negative about this but sometimes passive aggressive guys respond to texts in the way you've experienced, WITHOUT using emojis because they see it as an opportunity to be sarcastic with you without you being able to prove it, because it can be read both ways. So if you decided to call him out on it sounding sarcastic they will deny it all and call you the crazy one. It's a bit like a form of gaslighting. The very fact it's got you second guessing is a red flag in itself if you're getting mixed vibes from him. Trust your gut OP and proceed with extreme caution.

Not much help, and I do agree they can be read both ways, but I think the first message sounds a bit more than the second.

It’s difficult because genuine people would mean this absolutely and passive aggressive people wouldn’t

Likewise, you might be cautious about this due to your history when people have meant it badly in the past or you could be subconsciously picking up a vibe from him.

Either way, I would carry on as I think you need more info and other signs are positive but if you start noticing other signs such as him making you feel badly about yourself or guilty about seeing your friends etc then you know the answer.

@wobblywinelover

I hate to sound negative about this but sometimes passive aggressive guys respond to texts in the way you've experienced, WITHOUT using emojis because they see it as an opportunity to be sarcastic with you without you being able to prove it, because it can be read both ways. So if you decided to call him out on it sounding sarcastic they will deny it all and call you the crazy one. It's a bit like a form of gaslighting. The very fact it's got you second guessing is a red flag in itself if you're getting mixed vibes from him. Trust your gut OP and proceed with extreme caution.

That would be a more obvious red flag if he nearly always used emojis and then didn't use them when he sent the passive aggressive text. If he never uses them then it means nothing!

At one point, my flatmate came in from her night out and I chatted to her for about ten minutes so didn’t reply to his last message for a bit.
So when you didn't immediately respond to his text message he sent you another with a snidey, passive aggressive undertone to it - he said “don’t let me stop you from being social then”

The next day you text him and are soooooo 'understanding' of his lack of response despite how he treated YOU - He hasn’t read my reply to that yet (sent about an hour ago) but I know he’s working and doesn’t always read/respond immediately so that doesn’t mean anything necessarily

Why is it ok for him to get narked at you for delaying responding by a few minutes?
Why are you so quick to overlook that quiet voice inside you and 'defend' him when he does the same to you but takes it even further?

I think you need to listen to your gut and take a step back to figure out your own boundaries and get things in perspective before you end up in another abusive relationship.

I think there must be something you have already noticed that makes you look for 'red flags' in other things that maybe are quite innocent.

If this were my bloke though... he would not have made the 'don't let me' remark, and is is a bit snippy.

Only my opinion nevertheless.

@wobblywinelover @user1481840227 yeah I’m really not sure about the lack of emojis. He never has used them throughout the entire time we’ve been talking, I do normally use them quite a lot but haven’t with him and it’s something I have thought about (but mostly just about how lazy they make me - ie I know I am over-reliant on them to get my emotional reactions across in messaging these days and it’s actually been quite good to not do that for a change).

@Trisolaris @PuppyMonkey exactly - it’s so hard to tell if there’s anything behind them. I do normally try to listen to my gut and it’s definitely telling me to be cautious here.

@monkeymonkey2010 I wouldn’t say I was defending him, exactly - more trying to be balanced in my presentation of the situation (we both often take a while to read and respond to each other’s messages because we’re working/out/doing other things so I didn’t want it to seem like he was definitely deliberately ignoring me). Also, it’s not ok for him to get narked at me for that - my whole question was about whether or not people thought that’s what was going on here. Clearly you’ve read it that he was, but a lot of others have said the opposite which is making it hard to know what to think/do. I’ve done a lot of work on my boundaries since my last relationship - what I’m worrying about now is whether my perspective has skewed too far the other way, to the point that I’m picking up on causes for concern which aren’t actually there.

@Anordinarymum honestly, there hasn’t been. These are the only things up to this point that have made me question it. Although, I will say over the past couple of days there’s been quite a lot of talk about sexual stuff (from him) which, while it has just been jokey and inoffensive, I’ve not really been keen on. Wondering if these are the early stages of the ick.

I always think that if you want to check, see how he reacts to you setting some clear boundaries.

Eg going out tonight with some friends so won’t be in touch til tomorrow, speak then!

See if he respects that and sends a message along the lines of ‘cool, go and be social! Speak later!’ If he’s genuine. Or is off with you etc

So anyone who doesn't use emojis is a bad person? OK then.

[quote Tafelberg]@Anordinarymum honestly, there hasn’t been. These are the only things up to this point that have made me question it. Although, I will say over the past couple of days there’s been quite a lot of talk about sexual stuff (from him) which, while it has just been jokey and inoffensive, I’ve not really been keen on. Wondering if these are the early stages of the ick.[/quote]
Have you actually been intimate with him ? I would find sexual innuendo from a non sleeping with me partner to be yukky

OP,

Trust your gut.
Its waving a definite orange flag at you so take note.

He may be PA, he may be snide.

Listen carefully and take @Trisolaris good advice to poke him a bit and see.

@Trisolaris good thinking, I might try that.
@BlokeHereInPeace not at all - as I said, I quite liked the fact he doesn’t use them (and adjusted my own mode of messaging to match) because it made me realise how lazy a way of communicating emotion it can be. I think it means you have to work harder to sense tone in a written communication without them but that’s not a bad thing.
@Anordinarymum I haven’t, no. I agree, I don’t really like it.

Apologies, understood.

So hard to tell by that alone to be honest. I do know that a year and half later from narcissistic abusive ex I still bring myself to talk to another man other than as a friend. He destroyed me that much and fooled totally that I still have days I’m not over it. So you will be very on your guard I think and I would just see what happens and take things very slowly. I agree with another though an orange flag but could be fine but on that alone it’s not possible to say. Good luck

2 day hangover, it happens, it's not the sort of thing I'd admit to to a new prospect though. Kinda gives the impression that you don't drink responsibly, especially in covid times. I think that could of been TMI at this stage, and his response was maybe a bit sarcastic because it didn't impress him, as it wouldn't many, not that it doesn't ever happen to me, not judging, just saying it was something he didn't need to know about.

None of us know him but based on those messages I would absolutely not have any concerns.

@Opentooffers I get your point. To give it some background though, he’d gone out (by himself as far as I know) on Sunday night and got hammered and was having a moan to me on the Monday morning about how rough he was feeling and having to deal with early morning work calls on a hangover, so I was trying to sympathise - if that makes any difference.

Anyway I spoke to him last night and basically said I didn’t feel I wanted to carry things on any more. He was surprised and gutted and when he asked why I told him - I didn’t use the specific examples above, but said I felt there’d been too much of a lean on sex chat so early on which had made me uncomfortable, and that occasionally I’d felt he wanted more from me than I can give and that I’d felt I’d annoyed him sometimes by not being around/replying.

He admitted he shouldn’t have come on so strong with the innuendo etc and apologised. Said there had never been any pressure on me to reply etc and was sorry if I’d felt that too. I am so uncertain if I’ve made a huge mistake now but felt I had to go with my gut. I keep looking back over the messages and still feel so torn.

OP, even if he didn’t mean those messages in a PA way you have the right to end the relationship for any reason, so if the sex chat made you uncomfortable then fair enough. Practicing setting strong boundaries will be great for you long term - you have clearly come a long way so well done!

I think you have done the right thing. If you are starting to question red flags at the beginning you walk away. Your gut is a powerful tool.

The first reply is definitely PA - sounds very snippy. The second one less so, but yes, my guard would be up, too.

Having a proper conversation rather than texting enables you to have a clearer picture as there is no tone of voice, etc, in a text message.

Sorry, I have just read your update. I regret not going with my gut feeling sooner during some attempts at OLD.

Op, don't have regrets, you trusted your gut and your brain/emotions are now checking in to cause doubt.

Gut always..I did something similar recently and it took a few days for the logical doubts to go away however I am really pleased with my decision as there are always more fish in the sea. I feel more comfortable now that I made a firm decision, if there is any doubt end it and this will refine and hone instincts.

Btw, I was in a long term relationship with a narcissist, I raised doubts in the beginning and let him talk me around. In reflection that showed him my boundaries were weak and probably helped him to shape his communications to me..he stopped the obvious controlling statements..my gut continued to nag me but because I couldn't name the behaviour (it was very subtle manipulation) I didn't end it.

I think some of us give the benefit of doubt too much. My sister was extremely harsh in her dating which at the time I thought was unkind but she did not hang onto men who raised any red flags. She has ended up with a good man. I was the empathic one/didn't trust my instincts and ended up in an abusive marriage.