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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I can't make him leave a house owned as jointly can I?

45 replies

BreathlessCommotion · 04/10/2020 21:35

I'm just checking. Briefly, a history of emotional l abuse, he has changed (but only cos I said I was leaving).

In reflection I still want to end the marriage. We jointly own our house. We have two children, one has ASD. I have been looking at places to rent, but we have a dog (and two cats) and the kids would be devastated if we couldn't take her. Dh doesn't exactly get on that well with the dog.

In a couple of years I could afford to buy him out and remortgage (when current mortgage ends) I might be able to do it before then. He is unlikely to be able to do the same (I earn more than him). I don't think he would leave voluntarily, but I'm worried about leaving the dog and think realistically I will end up doing more of the contact time.

But I can't make him leave can I?

OP posts:
Augustbreeze · 04/10/2020 21:40

If you can prove abuse you could - look at the Women's Aid website, they have a legal page.

pointythings · 04/10/2020 21:42

There would have to be abuse involved. I made mine leave, but he had literally just threatened to kill me and I called the police, who took him away. I was told I did not have to let him come back and that I had all the grounds I needed for an occupation order.

category12 · 04/10/2020 21:49

You might be able to get an occupation order for the house.

If you splitting up and divorcing, at some point the house is either going to have to be sold or one of you will have to buy the other out, so it really doesn't make sense for you to move out and rent, it weakens your position. Of course, if you start a divorce while still living together, he may well revert to abusive behaviours - but you could cross that bridge when you come to it.

You need to speak to a solicitor on the quiet and decide your best way forward.

Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 04/10/2020 21:51

He contacted the charity Respect, who work with the perpetrators of domestic abuse and they told him his behaviour was emotional abuse.

However he has changed since then, so it would be hard for me to prove current abuse. And it was always emotional, coercive (sex) not physical.

OP posts:
BPSCSS · 04/10/2020 22:08

You don't need 'proof' to apply for a non molestation and occupancy order, contact NCDV and they will talk you through the process. I think the currentness could be an issue but I don't he has totally changed and they consider things that seem quite everyday in an abusive relationship. Coercive sex would certainly count.

SandyY2K · 04/10/2020 22:34

It doesn't sound like he is currently abusive, so you can't get him to leave on those grounds.

I have to say it's a small percentage of men who contact the Perpetrators organisations. Most are forced to or have to do it to be able to see their DC on the direction of social services.

So few accept responsibility, but you're not obliged to stay with him, as emotional abuse just kills your feelings.

Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 05/10/2020 04:04

@SandyY2K

It doesn't sound like he is currently abusive, so you can't get him to leave on those grounds.

I have to say it's a small percentage of men who contact the Perpetrators organisations. Most are forced to or have to do it to be able to see their DC on the direction of social services.

So few accept responsibility, but you're not obliged to stay with him, as emotional abuse just kills your feelings.

This is why I've stayed longer and tried to make it work. Weird as it sounds I wish he'd just refused to admit it and we'd split over a year ago when I first instigated it.

But the feelings have gone, and I'm constantly on edge waiting for gin to change back. And every so often when he's tired or stressed a little bit of the old him will slip out in a snide comment. Nothing like before, and probably normal relationship sniping, but it puts me right back to where I was.

He contacted them, in a way, because he didn't believe me when I said his behaviour had been emotional abuse. He believed them when he wouldn't believe me. He was very upset. But if I ever mention it now he says "but I'm not like that now" or that he didn't know or can't change what happened. Which I know. But I can't change how I still feel about it.

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 05/10/2020 04:19

You can still start divorce proceedings so that he takes on board how serious you are. Then when you are able to, offer to buy him out. By which time he might accept the cash, especially if you stop doing anything for him and live separate lives but under the same roof, make it uncomfortable for him. Alternatively, sell the house and buy somewhere nearby - that might be easier. You can start proceedings to force a sale if he refuses, but that takes time.

differentnameforthis · 05/10/2020 04:19

And every so often when he's tired or stressed a little bit of the old him will slip out in a snide comment. Nothing like before, and probably normal relationship sniping, but it puts me right back to where I was.

So it's still there, he is just hiding it well, most of the time?

Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 05/10/2020 09:24

@differentnameforthis

And every so often when he's tired or stressed a little bit of the old him will slip out in a snide comment. Nothing like before, and probably normal relationship sniping, but it puts me right back to where I was.

So it's still there, he is just hiding it well, most of the time?

I have read about the living separate lives under one roof, but we don't have a spare room so will have to continue to share a bedroom. He does all the cooking- athough this a new thing since I said I was leaving a year ago. He also does his share of laundry etc. And I worry about how it would look to the dc- they are 8 and 11, if we started eating meals separately etc.

@differentnameforthis I think some of it is stil there, yes. I think a lot of this current 'him' is a form of masking. I think it actually exhausts him. And the frayed edges are starting to show. He took on all the cooking and meal planning as it was something I mentioned in our counselling. But he is beginning to slip with it and has mentioned how anooying it is to have to do day in day out.

I think its almost like a form of the 'ick' but where not only does everything he do annoy me, but also has a stronger reaction because of the former abuse.

OP posts:
Augustbreeze · 05/10/2020 12:26

Lunday Bancroft's books are very good on'How to tell if he's really changed'.

Basically if he doesn't take full responsibility for his past actions/words and all the effects they had, doesn't seek to make full amends and to accept that you have a right to feel very hurt and damaged by them for as long as you need afterwards, he hasn't really changed.

differentnameforthis · 05/10/2020 12:56

@BreathlessCommotion

I feel for you. Him taking on additional chores around the house, because that is what is expected of him, not what he chooses to do will be an annoyance to him too. It is hard to live a life that is built on "appearing" to be the good guy.

Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 05/10/2020 13:03

I don't know whay I can't just make a decision. I've been considering leaving him for years now. But I always end up staying. I wish I knew what the right decision was. Sorry I sound completely pathetic!

OP posts:
Xenia · 05/10/2020 13:12

We were similar in that I could afford to buy my exhusband out and he coudl not afford to do the same for me. He stayed for the 7 months it took for an agreed divorce (no court hearings but both of us had solicitors both of which I paid for) and final consent order, mortgage and property transfer into my name and cash paid to him. At that point my solicitor said I could get him out if he did not leave.

I however made up my mind and the other 3 children wanted me to divorce too so it was easier than for people who aren't sure. (He got 59% of our joint assets but I don't have to pay him maintenance)

category12 · 05/10/2020 13:25

Couldn't you move into one of the children's bedrooms or otherwise rejig things?

Have you ever spoken to a solicitor or started making any steps towards ending it?

picklemewalnuts · 05/10/2020 13:38

Are you still walking on eggshells? Are you in the habit of avoiding things that set him off?

I wonder if he would be successfully keeping up the 'I've changed' facade if you irritated him.

Augustbreeze · 05/10/2020 13:39

Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That?, available free online, is the book for you. Or call and talk it through with a DV organisation. They're brilliant and will not follow any agenda.

Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 05/10/2020 13:44

I spoke to a solicitor in March and got some basic advice about splitting finances.

I do still walk in eggshells a bit and when things go 'wrong' I immediately revert to my old self and feel anxious and on edge. An example being a short break we had over the summer. He can have a mood that feels like in invades everyone.

I still hide some money stuff from him, despite having my own account now. He got very annoyed about me having zoom drinks with new work colleagues last Friday night. He did the bedtime stuff (and I did get quite tipsy!), but I did solo bedtimes for almost a decade. I saw the old him again then. Not telling me I can't drink, but making comments about it so that I'll not do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
BreathlessCommotion · 05/10/2020 21:07

I'm reading Lundy Bancroft- thanks

I don't know why I'm so unable to make a decision. And why I can say it to him (again). When he gets upset I find it so hard, and end up agreeing to stay so he isn't upset (fucked up, I know). And then if I get past the upset, he will turn nasty, snide comments etc. So I stay. I annoy myself.

And then I worry that its the wrong decision and there is no coming back from it. And life will be worse etc. Jeez I need a slap.

OP posts:
Augustbreeze · 05/10/2020 22:23

You need support @BreathlessCommotion .

AlreadyGone44 · 05/10/2020 22:54

Im in the same place @BreathlessCommotion. Last time I tried to have the we need to split up conversation he turned it all around on me and I ended up staying and promising to try harder. I don't want to hurt him, which is ridiculous after how much he's hurt me. I shouldn't care. He's destroyed my self esteem and my sense of worth and yet I still don't want to hurt his feelings. It's so screwed up.

There are lots of things holding me back. I don't want to not see our kids everyday. And I'm worried about my boys spending chunks of time without me there as a buffer. We have 3 boys, 2 are Autistic, one with anxiety and I'm their safe person. Our eldest especially refuses to talk to DH when he's struggling mentally. I'm afraid of going through the whole divorce process under one roof. Not physically afraid, worried for my mental health and the effect on the kids. I'm getting counselling with the aim of being able to tell him it's over and to not be talked out of it. To be assertive and put me before him.

Augustbreeze · 05/10/2020 22:59

Both, please talk it's through with a DV advisor. They're brilliant and they know all the mind games including the ones going on in your own heads!

Agirlcalled · 05/10/2020 23:09

@Augustbreeze

Both, please talk it's through with a DV advisor. They're brilliant and they know all the mind games including the ones going on in your own heads!
How do you find one of those Augustbreeze?
NeverTwerkNaked · 05/10/2020 23:24

Definitely speak to a solicitor and find out what you would need to do to get an occupation order.

My ex was abusive and the police helped us leave and then NCDV were fabulous at sorting the occupation order but you could also apply yourself direct to the court or you could appoint a solicitor to assist.

I remember I had to prove that I had nowhere else to stay locally whereas he had family living locally he could stay with. The children were pretty young at the time though.

NeverTwerkNaked · 05/10/2020 23:26

@AlreadyGone44 I would strongly recommend counselling/play therapy for your boys too. I organised play therapy for my son a couple of years ago and it made so much difference to him and helped him to stand up to his dad

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