What's going on? Drugs?

[troubledoldersister]

Not sure what I'm expecting from this, but wondered whether anyone had any insight.

I am 4 years older than my brother. I am a professional, he didn't go to university and has had a few jobs, settling at the last one for nearly 3 years. He has a son who is at primary school, a very turbulent relationship with his DS' mother and a new partner who he purchased a flat with during lockdown. Due to his work dropping over lockdown, his overtime has been cut and he has been struggling to get by day to day. Or so he says. He is terrible with money, always has been. Car on finance, expensive phone, spending money on rubbish. I am careful with money, albeit it I am lucky to have a decent job and DH who earns well. But I work hard for my money.

Last week he asked to borrow quite a significant sum from me due to not having enough cash to cover some bills. I agreed, on the basis his DP had already drawn the money down from her savings to pay me back the next day. Later that week he asked to reborrow the same sum. I agreed. His DP sent the money to me again, although she sent me more than he'd borrowed and he asked me to send the extra to him. This made me suspicious, but he confirmed that was what I should do, so I did. At the end of the week he contacted me again (called me 3 times in a row and text me, all while I was working) and asked again to borrow the money. When I asked WTH was going on, he finally admitted to having got a pay day loan for a substantial sum (3x what he had initially borrowed from me) with APR of 99%. Again he explained that he couldn't cover basic living expenses due to lost overtime. I asked how much was outstanding and agreed to loan him enough to pay it off, but told him he needed to sit down with DP and explain what was going on. He has been contributing half to all of the bills, despite earning significantly less than her, and supporting his DS. I told him if he didn't tell her, I would. He agreed to talk to her the next night. When I spoke to him yesterday, he said he had spoken to her and she now wasn't talking to him. She said if he couldn't afford to live there, maybe he should find somewhere else to live. This grated me, me and DH are a team - this felt wrong to me. I think she would get rid of DB if she wasn't absolutely desperate for DC.

I am so worried that there is something darker going on with DB. My DM found cut up straws with powder on in his bedroom years ago and also a couple of 'pills'. He is extraordinarily secretive, a liar and all round complicated individual.

Am I being a massive idiot? Is this just a case of not living within his means or is there something else going on? My parents are so stressed and want to pay me back. I have refused, I don't need the money right now. That isn't the issue. I just would like to know other people's opinions as to what they think might be going on.

Drugs or gambling. Probably gambling.

@charliehunnamssixpack thanks for your reply. I wouldn't have thought gambling, but one of his ex partners was a real gambler. He seemed to hate it at the time, but perhaps not so much 🤷‍♀️
I'm tired of feeling like a bank. Just because I have money doesn't mean i should have to subsidise another adult's lifestyle. But the guilt of not helping gets too much sometimes.

Sounds like he has problems with impulse control and stimulation seeking. It doesn't really matter whether it is drugs, gambling, or excessive shopping. Well, obviously, it does but either way you need to stop feeding whatever habit it is. If overtime drops off the obvious solution is to take a second job. Supermarkets and delivery companies are all recruiting round me...

This sounds remarkably similar to a male ex friend of mine. Minus the child. In his case it was bad debt but the underlying cause was a triple whammy of reckless spending, multiple substance abuse kssues, and historic gambling debts. He was also a liar. These things tend to go hand in hand.

Rather than providing money it sounds like he could do with a strong push toward psychological intervention. Poor you, its very stressful having a sibling like this :(

I mean, this ex friend of mine also leaned very heavily on his older sister, until she got fed up with his ways. He always saw her as the golden child who had everything, and himself as the outcast. I think guilt about that is what kept her supporting him for so long.

@Saggyoldsofa you are absolutely right. I am doing him no favours by bailing him out time and time again. I think part of the reason I do it is to try and save my parents the stress, but I am then taking all of the stress on myself. To me, when you have a DP or DH/DW you are a team together. Yet he acts like a single person/teenager and my parents worry they will end up with him at home again. So I try to help so that doesn't happen. I think he is a liar and no doubt about it, he can be an absolute idiot on many levels. But his DP knew all of this before the flat purchase. So to say that perhaps he should find somewhere else to live if he can't afford it really riled me. But equally I don't trust him and who knows what else is going on in their relationship. You're right, it is very stressful! Funny how having someone outside of the family unit acknowledging that makes me feel just a tiny bit better, so thank you.

@Saggyoldsofa you have just hit the nail on the absolute head. You couldn't be more right.

Oh I'm sorry :( I have seen how hard that is to deal with, in that case.
It does sound as if his partner is being a bit unreasonable about the flat on the face of it but I wonder if he is giving you the whole story. She might know what he has been spaffing his money on qnd therefore not be very accommodating of his apparent inability to pay half the bills.
My friend's family certainly did not, and still do not, although they must surely guess where his money goes... honestly, there is no helping people who dont want to help themselves.

Your parents dont have to take him back. It's natural to always feel responsible for your children though.

Can you visit him and scope things out?

Have to say that his past indiscretions coupled with money issues, job insecurity and relationship problems make me think CokeCokeCokeCoke.... but I make be completely wrong.

How significant are the sums of money? If you're talking thousands then I'd be more inclined to suspect gambling.

If hundreds, possibly drugs. But even then it would be hard to sustain a drug problem costing hundreds of pounds every few days without someone realising. Even cocaine, which is expensive.

You say you and your DH are a team - don’t put that in jeopardy by taking money out of your team to shore up a waster who has already shown you he has no qualms about treating you like a bottomless pit of money. These people never stop while they are being enabled - where’s the incentive for them to do so?

Sounds like gambling to me, as PP has said you’d notice if he’d been having hundreds/thousands pounds worth of drugs. I’d rather personally assume gambling as you would need continuous amounts of money to keep that habit up.

I know you care for your brother, but bailing him out is the absolute worst thing you can do. For him and for your marriage. Stop this madness right now and refuse to give him one more pound. Your brother has a lot of growing up to do.

Yeah, it doesn't matter whether gambling, drugs, hookers, the mob or a natural disaster. Not your problem. Your fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) are weapons used by the dysfunctional to suck the life energy out of us. Focus on your actual loving family unit

Essentially, his partner is paying off his debts and to add insult to injury, he’s creaming some off the top.

You and your DH would hardly be a team if he was scamming you.

STOP ENABLING HIM!

I'm an older sister as well, I get it. You're the one who always holds it together. You're the one who makes it alright for everyone else before you even start to think about you. Fuck that. Let your brother and everyone else sort themselves out. Are they not adults? Good. They can do without your parenting then.

What the p p have said.
I doubt you will ever get your money back. Hope Im wrong.

I wouldn't blindly believe him about what he's said his partner has said. Hes clearly lying and behaving erratically, why wouldn't that extend to covering up for himself by making out she's the ogre here?

It sounds like he skimmed money for himself off the top when His DP sent the money to me again, although she sent me more than he'd borrowed and he asked me to send the extra to him. If that's true, that's fucked up and treacherous.

Speak to his partner, get her side.

Also, are you absolutely sure the ex partner was the gambler? How do you know this?

@Saggyoldsofa and @charliehunnamssixpack hundreds, I believe. Well he borrowed hundreds from me. I also thought coke, but how could he sustain this? He brings home a couple of grand a month and 90% of this goes on bills. So I am told. That's the problem isn't it, you never quite know when you are dealing with a liar.

@HopeClearwater I was waiting for someone to say this! While DH is nothing but supportive, I know he thinks DB is a waster and I know he doesn't like to see me hurt. I also know what I would think if it were the other way around.

@mamakena it is absolutely FOG. Which I hate.

@AgentJohnson and @category12 the skimming made me feel sick. I would be devastated if I found out DH had done anything like that to me. I am inclined to believe him about her comments though, as she has said similar in a previous (MUCH less serious) situations. I am (was?) also quite confident the ex was the gambler, but hey maybe I am wrong about that too!

I would stop the loaning money immediately. If he hasn't learned how to manage money by now he never will but his being plunged into debt might be the thing that makes him change. You endlessly bailing him out won't bring him to any realisation of any sort ever.
Until he sells the fancy car and the stuff he has lashed out on, WTF should you help him?

We had this with my 'D' SDS. I loaned almost a years wages for a specific project that would set him up for life. He went out and bought a brand new Beemer. These types are in trouble with money for a good reason.

Maybe there's a reason she's like that, tho.

I mean, the picture of your brother isn't exactly pretty.

So his HALF of the bills is nearly £2k? That's ridiculous unless they've got a 10 bedroom house and live on champagne!

I'm not surprised his partner has told him to sort himself out or leave. He's a compulsive liar, can't pay his way despite earning 2k a month and has scammed her at least once that you know of by getting her to pay you back more than he borrowed and transferring the extra to him.

You really really need to get her side because he's created a victim narrative, but I'll bet she's been carrying the financial load way more then he's told you. I'd assume he's turned to you because she's put her foot down and said no more!

A man with a decent salary does not do payday loans unless they have seriously fucked up their credit and can't go to the banks anymore.

You need to see his accounts, debts etc and speak to her directly before even thinking of giving more £. You're enabling something (drugs/gambling) and you continue to do so she is going to kick him out and he'll be living with you!

@Thingsdogetbetter all I know is car finance, mortgage and child support comes to around £1k. Then he pays half council tax, gas, electricity, water, internet plus car insurance, mobile and food. I can see how it adds up to roughly the figures he has quoted. Of course my view is that you don't spend what you don't have, hence why I am not anything like him when it comes to money.

I am going to have a chat with DM this morning and then with his DP, hopefully today. We are both at work.

Thank you all for your replies. Without them I probably wouldn't have had the courage to speak to his DP today. It was worse than i even thought possible, but now we know. Oh and it is drugs for anyone who guessed correctly. And i feel like shit for ever doubting DP who is possibly the nicest person i have ever met and has dealt with so much. She knows she has our support now, I just wish we'd had this conversation sooner.

I'm glad you spoke to her, I thought he was peddling you shite about her.

I hope he can sort himself out.

You sound lovely, remember you can't bail him out ever again now or he won't have a reason to get better / change. It sounded like coke, if he isn't willing to confront his addiction he will just get further into a downward spiral. I hope his partner can find a way to leave and move on. You've both done your bit and then some!