Haven’t spoken to my mum In years and she’s dying in ICU

[JacobReesMogadishu]

Guess I always knew this would happen. Always hoped she would try and make amends and we could sort our relationship out before the end but now it’s too late.

Both me and my brother have been NC with her for about 7 years after a lifetime Of emotional abuse. Classic narcissist. Raging at us, throwing tantrums, general nastiness, ignoring us for weeks then pretending nothing was wrong. Final straw was when she said something very nasty about me and my brother to my Dd who was 11yo at the time. Dd told me (and we totally believe her), my mum denied it and said Dd was a psychopath who should be in a mental hospital. She told Dd that!

So it was left that we weren’t prepared to put up with it anymore but if she ever wanted to reflect on her behaviour, and have a serious discussion with us about how she would change then we’d be open to restarting the relationship. She never got in touch with us. Too proud, too stubborn, to unable to see how awful her behaviour is.

She’s fallen out with everyone in her life, her mother, her sister, every neighbour she’s had, every friend, every boss. And every time it’s always them that’s at fault, not her.

She obviously hasn’t put me or brother down as next of kin as the hospital hasn’t been in touch. She has no other family so no idea who is. Her vicar told my step mum who texted me (my dad died years ago). I can’t imagine the hospital would tell me anything if I rsng. I don’t even know what’s wrong with her.

Something similar happened in our family, only she was moved to palliative by the time I found out and died a few weeks later. I made no contact and have zero regrets about it. I feel immense sadness for her and for how her life turned out. I feel the pain of what could have been. But the damage was irreparable and I am at peace with knowing I owed her nothing.

If that's your reaction, then that's really what you feel isn't it? (Sorry if that's not worded correctly.)

It doesn't sound like you want contact - then don't. If she's in and out of consciousness, she may not remember what the nurse told her even if she did.

I am not a hard person and have issues with certain things but this would be something that I could stick hard with.

If it would bring you some kind of peace to see her - tell her how you feel and that - then see her. Can you have a few days to think about it?

I wouldn't bother. It's not like the movies, no great resolve comes out of these situations. If you have something that you want to tell her go but dont go hoping to hear something like an apology or i love you.. that could set you back surprisingly long and painful.

It’s a tricky one OP but i actually think it is better for you to go and visit - you may get an apology or even reconciliation, or you may not, but either way you will know. If you don’t go it could end up eating away at you once she has died because then you will never know. Sometimes the not knowing can cause a lot more pain and sorrow.

Be the bigger person and give her a chance because it will help you process your grief later on- even if that grief is for the relationship you never had rather than for the person.

OP,
I wouldn't give her a single thought in your decision.
She had her chance to be a decent mother and grandmother and chose not to.

There will be no epiphany.
She is who she is.

She knew she could come to you and your brother, but chose not to.

She made her choice.
IMO I would respect her decision not to have further contact with you.

It's a very painful time for you.
Please mind yourself.

I don't think you need do anything now as it turns out she isn't dying at the moment.

This is how you could consider it for the future if you have warning that she's in her last hours/days:-

Would you feel guilty if you didn't see her when she's dying? I'm not saying you should feel guilty, just that you might.

But what she said to your DD was pretty awful.

So it depends how you think you might feel afterwards. I don't think you'd be condoning what she did at all by going, itt's just a thing you might feel you should do.

It's up to you of course. x

But knowing all that does she have any assets? Is there anything she could leave you that is worth visiting her for?

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl If at any point she were dying in ICU, she probably wouldn't have the energy etc to change her will at the time.

Ok, so at least you know it's a seizure.

Do you have any personal items at hers or keys?

It meant a lot to me to be able to retrieve my father's family things. Though you do tend to care less about that as you get older.

You can detach now unless there's anything personal to pick up.

The aunt who brought me up died about 7 years ago now, I never went to see her or went to her funeral I didn’t feel guilty either, never mind anyone else you do what you want, but never feel guilty if you don’t see her, you have your future life and happiness at stake. She treated you like crap that’s why you’ve nc for years now. So why do something you know will make you unhappy she made her bed let her lie on it, hugs lots of them.

OP, narcissists are incapable of change. They never accept that they were in the wrong - everything is always your fault, not theirs. There would be no deathbed apology or touching reconciliation, and she will never turn into mummy wonderful. She will be the mother from hell to her final breath.
You need to grieve for the loving mother you never had, for the fact you were denied good emotional foundations in your childhood. You really don’t need to shed a single tear for your abusive actual mother.
Whether you go and see her is up to you. If it would give you closure to see her body after death, or to forgive her beforehand, then go. But if it would simply upset you, then don’t.
I didn’t see my narc mother for 3 years before she died. I didn’t attend the funeral. My DSis and I felt only relief that she was gone.
I hope you have someone supportive that you can offload to at home, as this will all be stressful for you, although it sounds like your mother is nowhere near as ill as portrayed to you, and you have a lot more time to decide what you want to do. Make the decision that’s right for you, not her. She would only accept your grovelling admission that you were a terrible daughter and everything was your fault. She would never accept liability.

I had a similar situation with my dad. Apparently he had less than a week left to live and my uncle told me it was now or never to say goodbye. I didn’t want to see him but didn’t want any regret in later life so decided to see him. It was horrible but I’m glad I did. Anyway he pulled through and as far as I know he’s still alive (3 years later) ...but i feel like I’ve said my goodbyes now.
It’s a personal choice and my only advice would be try to think how you’d feel 10 years down the line. That’s the only way I came to my conclusion

@SirGawain and everyone else that has been sniffy and condescending it was simply a thought. I've behaved impeccably financially over my life and my standards are high. You are confused about what money is.

Money is a daughter going to uni that you couldn't afford to send there, or buying a house in a safe and peaceful area, or getting away from an abusive husband. It's an operation you need that the NHS can't do right now. It's a chance to see parts of the world you'll never see otherwise. It's also a chance to get life changing therapy to deal with the extensive damage a mother like that does.

Where that money comes from makes no difference- it's what you do with it that matters. As long as you don't need to compromise your core beliefs or do something that will cause further damage to yourself to get it. Money made at soneone else's or your own expense isn't worth it. But apart from that it's just money. Being emotionally attached to what you think money is (evil, some kind of curse etc) doesn't make you morally superior. It isn't virtuous. Not everyone has the luxury of being financially safe and not worrying about it at all.

OP it doesn't sound like she has any guilt or second thoughts. She's probably painted herself as the victim and so the only question is what do you want? Put yourself in the future a year. You havent seen her, and she's dead. How do you feel about that?

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl no, I do appreciate your comments. For some people it may have been something to think about. Even before we went NC though her “estate” was something she used like a weapon. Threatening to cut me out the will, leave it to Dd instead, leave it to the church, whoever.

I refused to play those games when we talked and I’m not giving her the satisfaction of thinking I was trying to get her money now. Chances are she’d leave the money to someone else even if she promised it to me (which is what her mum did to her).

Yes, the money would be nice. It would secure my daughter’s future as it’s looking likely she may never be able to work due to illness but we’ll manage.

I don’t have any personal effects at hers, nothing in her house I’d want even if I was allowed anything.

I really feel for you. My mother sounds exactly the same and I have very little contact with her. I don't know what I'll do when the time comes that she's dying.
Sending you a hug xx

@JacobReesMogadishu yes with someone like her it would be a long shot. I did wonder if you could somehow guilt trip convince her to make provision for your DD in her will as part of the 'reunion' but someone like that will be a slippery character. It doesn't surprise me she has used it in the past.

If it does come to pass however don't look at us as tainted money. Look at it as a useful tool to repair some of the damage she's done. I know a number of people from very wealthy backgrounds where various elderly family members used inheritances as a way to control people. Then when they died it turned out that they didn't even own the houses in Chelsea or wherever 😁

Asvfot your daughter never being able to work well she might not be able to physically do much but if she has her mind there may be skills she can develop into a career?

As someone said I think you need to do what's best for you and make it about you.

My mother sounds very similar apart from the fact she would be less direct with her nastiness and say it behind my back. I was n.c. with my mother for several years then tried to reconcile. It didn't work but it did much to appease my guilt (which I shouldn't have felt but did). I got to say what I wanted to say to her and left the ball in her court so to speak...well I got my answer as she never contacted me. But it has helped me moved forward a lot, I don't regret having tried, I do regret how distressed I got at the time when she was totally lacking emotion (part of her narcissism).

Leave well alone and have no further contact.

It's already too late for regrets, and your mother sounds a very unpleasant person- and don't even begin to think she would be pleased to hear from or see you.

[quote MarriedtoDaveGrohl]@SirGawain and everyone else that has been sniffy and condescending it was simply a thought. I've behaved impeccably financially over my life and my standards are high. You are confused about what money is.

Money is a daughter going to uni that you couldn't afford to send there, or buying a house in a safe and peaceful area, or getting away from an abusive husband. It's an operation you need that the NHS can't do right now. It's a chance to see parts of the world you'll never see otherwise. It's also a chance to get life changing therapy to deal with the extensive damage a mother like that does.

Where that money comes from makes no difference- it's what you do with it that matters. As long as you don't need to compromise your core beliefs or do something that will cause further damage to yourself to get it. Money made at soneone else's or your own expense isn't worth it. But apart from that it's just money. Being emotionally attached to what you think money is (evil, some kind of curse etc) doesn't make you morally superior. It isn't virtuous. Not everyone has the luxury of being financially safe and not worrying about it at all.

OP it doesn't sound like she has any guilt or second thoughts. She's probably painted herself as the victim and so the only question is what do you want? Put yourself in the future a year. You havent seen her, and she's dead. How do you feel about that?[/quote]
For what it's worth I certainly took your post to be one of kind wisdom.

Unfortunately there are posters on MN whose default modevis ugliness.

I absolutely believe your post was of a supportive nature.

Wishing you well

@billy1966 Thank you, that's very kind of you to say that. And yes that's exactly what it was. An idea that maybe something could be rescued for her daughter possibly - but a pretty distant possiblity I must say.

No surprises that the flying monkeys were on a fake mission - as a PP exaggerated health claims are a standard Narc hoover.

It’s good you called the ward. It gives you time to think. Seems though this is a double bind because she is likely to recover and if you needed to go NC a second time due to abuse and manipulation you might feel much much worse and trapped.

There is zero evidence that you will get a reconciliation - know that and base any decisions on that.

I am sorry that your DD was so badly abused by this monster. My gut would keep me away out of respect from my DD - but that’s my personal take on it.

Just keep her blocked in all ways

Those fuckers always die last (hope that raises a smile)

@LaurieFairyCake

Just keep her blocked in all ways

Those fuckers always die last (hope that raises a smile)

Yes. Dh rolled his eyes when I said it didn’t sound like she was dying now!

Why not see this as a practise run if she were to die would you regret not seeing her? If not keep nc for your own mh I always think if people are nc when a person dies don't expect to be told about it or welcome at the funeral if you are OK about this forget her.

Had a phone call today from her next of kin who sounded pleasant enough. She felt she ought to ring to offer me the choice of being kept updated. She knew I’d rung the hospital yesterday.

Seems that she is not expected to recover her mental capacity. So whether that means she dies in the next few days or whether she recovers enough to be put in a nursing home and linger on for a while I don’t know.

Do I let this woman as next of kin sort it all out because it sounds like she’ll either be arranging a funeral or a care home. Or do I offer to help?

Has the next of kin person asked for you to get involved?

Are you feeling some obligation / guilt towards the next of kin person?

If so I wouldn’t - it’s your DM wishes and the next of kin person has agreed.

Has your DM asked to see you or for you to be involved?

No rush to make any decisions. Sit still and process how this is triggering you - what your long term goals are / were and once the emotion has passed consider if any response / action is needed.

Don’t react.

I would not offer to help in any way. Your mother informed the hospital this person was her next of kin and this person has taken that role upon herself.