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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Men who stonewall - can they change?

44 replies

DocusDiplo · 03/09/2020 05:55

Hello.

I've met a.man who has admitted he didn't talk to his ex-wife for days.

We have only had a few dates and I'm wondering how to deal with it.

I know I'm jumping ahead in my thoughts! He seems quite nice but this has.made me wary.

I'm wondering whether his openness is a good sign?

Could he change? Has anyone had any experience of people changing?

I know you'll all tell me I'm naive and that's OK too, but just thought just perhaps there's a possibility men can change?

Thank you.

OP posts:
FigDate · 03/09/2020 06:14

Red flag. Ditch. They almost never change. He is telling you so as to prepare you for the treatment you are to get from him in future.

marriednotdead · 03/09/2020 06:19

No they can’t. He’s told you that this is how he behaves, listen to him. At best it’s a bad habit and he doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with it.

I was married to someone who did that, it’s far more soul destroying than you can imagine and is classed as a form of domestic abuse.
Quit while you’re ahead.

LockdownLoving · 03/09/2020 07:03

NOT a good sign. He has warned you himself.

user1493413286 · 03/09/2020 07:07

I think it depends on the circumstances; was it all the time or a one off? Was it when their marriage had completely broken down or throughout? What’s his view on it now? I’d treat with caution; I find it odd that he’s told you in some ways.

mummmy2017 · 03/09/2020 07:09

Maybe tell him the first time he does it too you it's over.
The be very very careful about how fast you let this relationship progress.

Original poster
DocusDiplo · 03/09/2020 07:28

Yes, it's not right is it. There's so many frog on online dating that when someone who seems alright comes along you try and give them the time of day.

Maybe I'll just go with the flow for light fun and not stay detached emotionally. That's quite difficult for me though!

Yeah a weird topic - I'm pretty weird myself. I think we were talking about exes? or I was probably trying to sound him out... Can't remember.

Stonewalling is abuse but I don't think he realises that. I wondered whether perhaps people can get into bad / toxic / dysfunctional patterns with partners and he might not be like that forever??

I'll be wary.

In response I did say "hmmm, that's not healthy" or similar and "maybe Some women wouldn't put up with that shit...".

OP posts:
category12 · 03/09/2020 07:36

Try seeing how he reacts to a no or you otherwise crossing him, not going along with him. I'm not saying pick a fight, or anything dramatic, but just I dunno, he suggests a date somewhere, say you fancy somewhere else. When he says something you disagree with, don't let it go. See how he responds.

Shoxfordian · 03/09/2020 07:37

Stop dating him then
He's told you what he's like so step away

SeaEagleFeather · 03/09/2020 07:40

stonewalling is soul destroying. It's a powerful tool for making the other person miserable.

FigDate · 03/09/2020 07:42

Abusers know what they are doing. They do it on purpose and enjoy the kick they get out hurting others.
He is sounding you out to see if you are primed to be his next victim. “Will she keep seeing me if I drop this in, if yes that’s a good sign she will accept the abuse I will eventually give her”. He will keep dropping these little nuggets in and pushing your boundaries slightly, increasing slowly.
Have your boundaries firm. Be on guard. If he keeps making you feel slightly uncomfortable with the things he says then take that as red flags and get out of there before you feel emotionally over invested.

JamieLeeCurtains · 03/09/2020 07:45

I can see how it came up in conversation, but it's not clear what his motive was for telling you.

When I first met DP, we were friends (via friends) for a while before we started a relationship. In that friends period, we had the freedom (for want of a better word) to rant and ramble on about Exes and DMs/MiLs and teenage DC and all name of stuff. And sometimes I'd say to him, 'that makes you sound like a right gobshite', and sometimes he'd say similar to me.

I think if we'd met 'as relationship material' we'd have been a lot more circumspect around each other!

Which takes me back to your chap. What's his game here? Setting you up for a future of hearing, 'well you knew what I was like'? Or does he have a genuinely and generally open style of communication, and he's telling you about a marriage breakdown?

It'll be there in your gut, somewhere, the answer.

Vodkacranberryplease · 03/09/2020 07:55

I think you could possibly nip it in the bud with the right techniques but you would have to be strong willed and ready to detach. And have an active social life ready to go. For example if you were stonewalling someone who then simply vanished out with mates every night, didn't do anything for you like cook or clean and was always doing other things totally ignoring you but seeming like they were having fun you would stop it pdq. Sadly if you are married with children you don't have that option easily. It's there but takes money (babysitters) friends (often dumped by then) and a certain attitude.

Women aren't willing to enforce consequences with actions and want to talk. Men don't change by talking they change when they are on the receiving end of consequences. It's a vast generalisation I know but sadly a true one. Not a popular opinion on here I might add!

Obviously you do talk first. It's just after there's no change you have to change tack. And men are great at winning so will up the ante and get really angry and you really need to be calm and hold your nerve through that which is hard. But keep calm and keep enforcing a consequence every time.. they WILL change unless they are deeply disturbed.

A lot of arsehole husbands go on to have decent or even good relationships with new women. Often because the new woman doesn't have their children (so can go more easily) or is less willing to put up with shit.

Of course a lot don't. I think with this man you just laugh and say 'if you did that to me you'd be on your own at home sulking, I'd be at the pub with my friends!' And make it clear they would not enjoy their stonewalling experience. And 100% act on that. It would soon stop.

Vodkacranberryplease · 03/09/2020 08:03

But equally I do think they warn you if their worst traits. So you need to be VERY aware of that. And make it very clear that it's not something you would be prepared to take. It might be with this one that you tell him you would benoutbofvthere the very first time he did it. Warn him back. Let him know what youre like. I've never been stonewalled properly and the only person who did a similar thing (sulked) was a little shit who I dumped.

He was upset for years but I wasn't willing to let it go and would mention his behaviour which would then lead him to sulk (while split up). But he was spoilt by his mummy and the youngest.

Mothers of boys.... do not spoil them! Do not let them disrespect you or see you being disrespected! They need a lot more guidance than you think!

Sakurami · 03/09/2020 08:57

I had to stonewall or grey rock in my last relationship because I was sick of talking and nothing changed and I was trapped because of the kids etc.

I would ask him the circumstances of him stonewalling and take it from there.

SeaEagleFeather · 03/09/2020 09:30

Brilliant post vodka

Wondersense · 03/09/2020 09:52

@Vodkacranberryplease

But equally I do think they warn you if their worst traits. So you need to be VERY aware of that. And make it very clear that it's not something you would be prepared to take. It might be with this one that you tell him you would benoutbofvthere the very first time he did it. Warn him back. Let him know what youre like. I've never been stonewalled properly and the only person who did a similar thing (sulked) was a little shit who I dumped.

He was upset for years but I wasn't willing to let it go and would mention his behaviour which would then lead him to sulk (while split up). But he was spoilt by his mummy and the youngest.

Mothers of boys.... do not spoil them! Do not let them disrespect you or see you being disrespected! They need a lot more guidance than you think!

I once got close to a man who said that all the women he really wanted, the best ones in eyes, never dated him because they knew better. He actually thought less of a woman if she seriously considered him as a prospect.

I still believe today that not being his girlfriend is possibly one of the best decisions I ever made. He had so many issues.

BertiesLanding · 03/09/2020 09:54

Maybe I'll just go with the flow for light fun and not stay detached emotionally. That's quite difficult for me though!

I'll guarantee you now that this tactic is not going to work. And you know it too.

Aquamarine1029 · 03/09/2020 10:00

Maybe I'll just go with the flow for light fun and not stay detached emotionally. That's quite difficult for me though!

Come on, op. This is a monumentally stupid idea and you know it. Why would you risk getting yourself caught up in an abusive relationship?

He has told you very clearly who he is. Massive red flag and forewarned is fair warned.

Vodkacranberryplease · 03/09/2020 10:37

@SeaEagleFeather thanks! Was expecting all kinds of fuss tbh. But not all pricks are abusers - some just need a bit of reigning in..

@Wondersense you were right. I always listen very carefully to those early pronouncements because they are telling you the truth and sounding you out. Carry on seeing them and expect the same as you have 'agreed' to more of the same unless you specifically state otherwise and stick to it. I like the fictional boyfriend myself. The light hearted 'oh I used to go out with someone that did that. I dumped him too much hard work haha'. Then he knows what you will do. But you need to be prepared to stick to that which is easier said than done when emotions are involved.

Wildwood6 · 03/09/2020 10:58

When someone tells you who they are believe them OP. I don't believe he's being open, you've only had a few dates, it sounds more like he's testing the waters. If he'd done the hard work to improve his behaviour he wouldn't be bringing it up like this just a few dates in. We tend not to share our inadequacies and the bits of our personality that we've struggled with until we we're much closer to someone. You should be even more wary if you're the kind of person that finds it difficult to stay detached emotionally.

Raidblunner · 03/09/2020 11:07

I wouldn't give in to the LTB mob just yet. Certain partners can bring out the absolute worst in each other. Me & my ex wife were like this, In relationships subsequent to her I've never had any problem. I'd got to the point where what ever we said to each other turned in to an argument so it was best to say nothing. The guys been honest with you and perhaps give him a chance.

Wondersense · 03/09/2020 11:09

@Vodkacranberryplease It's good to be honest, but I think some people do it so they can abdicate an responsibility for their behaviour........'well I did warn you!' That kind of thing.

His bullshit wasn't worth going anywhere close to. He was highly manipulative, but I could see right through him, even though he must have thought he was being subtle. Trying to neg me, trying to put me down when I was happy or when I had done something well. All because he wanted to bring me down to his level, which was insecure and depressed. He was one of those people who hate to see others happy if they're not happy. Lots mind games generally. He really was a Jekyll & Hyde character. Totally toxic.

Babaoreally · 03/09/2020 14:55

Well - from my perspective, what you’ve described isn’t stone walling - it’s silent treatment. Stone walling is when people throw up lots and lots of reasons why they can’t do or discuss something that’s important to someone else - and don’t allow conversation to progress, as it gets side tracked as to whether each reason is genuine.
What you’ve described is I think ‘silent treatment’. It’s abusive, destructive and has been said to cause similar trauma to physical abuse in the way it can leave a partner feeling anxious, isolated and tearful. It’s a form of controlling behaviour. Anyway - I’d have serious concerns about someone who felt this was OK.

Daisy434 · 03/09/2020 15:05

I wouldn't continue the relationship. I remember reading an interview with a well known couple and the wife said her husband can go into major huffs and not talk to her for days, I just can't watch him now. I can't bear people using the silent treatment to me so it would be a terrible match ( I'm not saying anyone likes it but I react quite badly to it).

I wouldn't risk continuing with this relationship, not at this stage. Ignoring someone for days and being self aware and open enough to say that he does that while simultaneously not seeming to realise it is very bad behaviour is a massive red flag to me.

user1481840227 · 03/09/2020 15:15

No....they don't.

My last ex was a stonewaller, among his many issues lol
Even though he desperately wanted to make things work with me and chased me for a long time after I ended it...and I think he did try to be better at communication he genuinely wasn't capable of it because stonewalling had always been his default.

Both of my parents were also stonewallers...and they were never able to change either...even though now they have also lost their grandchildren as I have gone full no contact with them!

In all of those cases stonewalling was accompanied by other emotional abuse, gaslighting and so on.
I'm not sure how likely it is to occur on its own, but I know for sure if someone told me that I would run far far away!!