Should I cut contact with my DM because of the emotional blackmail?

[Mittens030869]

I've spoken about the childhood abuse my siblings and I went through as children on previous threads so I won't go into that here. My abusive F is long dead, so there aren't obvious safety issues surrounding contact with my DM.

My DB was involved in abusing my DSis and me, though he was also abused himself and is badly damaged. I haven't allowed contact between him and our adopted DDs (now 11 and 8) and my DM has respected this when she's had them on her own.

However, she is very manipulative. She keeps going on about how hard my DB has found not having contact with my DSis and me, and she's pushing hard for me to start seeing him again, as he's feeling very hurt and rejected.

This is also tricky, as he claims not to remember anything and has always put our F on a pedestal, though he is coming to understand that our memories of our childhood are different from his. His GP and psychiatrist say that he shouldn't be told anything more for his own sake.

Another thing that's getting to me is that she also wants to work towards contact with my DDs and has insisted on buying presents for them from the uncle they barely know. But actual contact would also be very tricky, because DD2 (8) has picked up that our F was abusive; she blurted out the question 'Did your dad rape you? So that would be very difficult to manage anyway.

I've kept up contact with my DM because I considered that my DDs had a relationship with her as Granny and would be hurt if contact was stopped. That's no longer the case after lockdown. They say they don't want to go out with her on their own now.

My DSis is saying that she wants to cut contact, because if my F was alive, contact wouldn't be happening. She also thinks my DM knew what was going on, something she has always strenuously denied. My DSis has memories of her knowing about it and not doing anything. It's possible, as I went to a private convent school and didn't come home until the evenings, so she might know things I don't.

I don't know what to think. My DM claims to be broken-hearted about what happened. But then when I pointed out that my F's behaviour towards her was abusive, too (paranoia about her cheating, emotionally abusive and controlling), she defended him and said it was because of his Parkinson's Disease medication, and then the illness itself

And finally, my mental and physical health isn't good, especially following long-term COVID, which thankfully is clearing up. But I'm completely drained (I already had CFS and PTSD anyway), and I'm worried that seeing my DB will set me right back if I see my DB face to face, as I always found seeing him very triggering.

But my DM will keep pushing my buttons. I feel I need to pull back, but she's about to turn 81 and the guilt will be hard to live with. My DM used to spend 2-3 months every year in Africa, which she won't be doing now, because of the COVID risk, so that means she's going to be around permanently.

I apologise that this is so long, but I didn't want to mislead by not giving the full picture.

I suppose I just want a hand hold here, as I am emotionally fragile right now, and don't want to make the wrong decision here.

Wow. Your mother would never ever have had contact with my children.

I think you know it’s likely that she knew what was happening- or suspected. Her justifications and attempts to manipulate you into accepting a relationship with your abuser are horrific. And to be open about the fact that she’s hoping to involve him in your children’s lives? I have no words.

Bottom line? That question should never have had to come out of your DD’s mouth, and if she hadn’t been exposed to this woman, it wouldn’t have.

They’re now actively telling you they want to distance themselves. At 8 and 11. God knows what she has to them when you aren’t there.

Please cut contact.

*says to them

What Fizzy wrote here.

Guilt is an absolutely useless emotion. Why do you feel guilty re your mother; your mother certainly does not feel guilt nor for that matter any remorse and she remains manipulative. She has not changed a bit since your own childhood. She installed those buttons she put in you and your mother is full of excuses and bs. Such people never apologize nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

If you do not protect your children from her, who else will?.

You're not telling DB to protect his fragile health. You're considering seeing him DESPITE it likely impacting your fragile health.

Do you see the disconnect here?

Your mental health is more important to you than either of them. Your mental health IS more important to your children.

I'd be very upfront with mum in this circumstance and tell it as it is:

I'm not having contact with Brother.
I'm reducing contact with you.
I'm reducing your contact with my children.

You need to know that your kids are safe and that you are safe. Not allowing mum alone time with your kids is the way forward.

The question came out, not because of my mum, and not because of what DD2 heard me say, I hadn't talked to her about it. But she had unfortunately been groomed online in the Roblox chatroom, which I hadn't realised existed. I stopped that as soon as I found out. I discovered it because she started talking about 'online boyfriends'. I explained that not all adults could be trusted and bad things had happened to me as a child. I didn't mention the word 'rape' or mention my F. I hadn't talked about it at home for a long time.

I don't know where she heard the word. Thankfully, she won't know what it means, as she only ever chatted online. I just spotted clues that they weren't children.

I'm curious who's told you that the GP and psychiatrist both advise against telling your brother anything more about the experiences of you and your DSIS. Because frankly that sounds like utter bullshit. I can't imagine medical professionals colluding in falsifying the past. That's a very dangerous game to play.
So where did that statement come from? Your mother by any chance?

@ThinkWittyThoughts Thank you for that. Yes I'm starting to see how manipulative my DM is. I can see how much easier life was when she was in Africa, which says a great deal.

wow, I would step back from your mother. That is an awful situation.

I'm glad you have your sister to validate your memories and your perspective.

You don't owe it to your mother to just whitewash over everything that happened.

I'm having a tough time dealing with my mother but nothing on this scale. You have all of my sympathies. I wouldn't announce ''no contact'' as a plan but I would work on minimising contact as much as possible.

@ImaginaryCat Yes, it did come from my mum. It all started when my DSis finally snapped and said, 'I'm telling him myself.' Since then, my mum has taken control as usual.

She had this same attitude when the police were investigating actually. Her only concern was that our DB wouldn't cope in prison and could I find out what would be the likely consequences?

As it turned out, my DSis and I agreed with the detectives investigating that prosecuting my DB wasn't in the public interest. There was no indication that he was a danger to children now. (He has no contact with our DDs, though. We used to have him at family events, but I saw that they were scared of him because he used to shout at them and bump into him.)

I agree with @ThinkWittyThoughts and it's so easy to see when it's somebody else's dilemma I know (and I can take something from her post too).

Do what's right for YOU

Your mental health should not be thrown under a bus for the sake of your brother's mental health!

Value your own right to defend your mental health by not letting them erode that boundary.

I think that the 3 statements spelled out in thnkwittythoughts post are , if not communicated to your mother (might be a red flag to a bull) three statements that you need to give yourself full permission to live by.

grrr on your behalf, so many mothers of adults out there just expect you to show up in the family forever with an accepting smile staple gunned on to your face when they haven't even acknowledged what happened in the past, never mind apologised for it or committed to it never happening again! HOW can you white wash over that!

You need to put yourself and your children first.

Tbh I thought "repressed memory" had largely been debunked?

Your mum has a history of putting the men in the family first ahead of the well-being of her daughters, and I feel she is doing the same with your brother. He is not your responsibility. Your children are, and your own mental health, and I would continue no contact and make it a condition of any contact with your mother that she stops pushing you for contact with your brother.

I would also not trust her to keep him away from your children, even if she has so far. It's just a risk you can't take.

I am nc with my dm for a lot less op. No way on earth would she be having an unsupervised relationship with my dd's...
Your dc will, imo feel guilt and puzzlement they saw your dm after the childhood you had. Imo also you appear to have sacrificed them to appease your dm. Please withdraw any contact and take your precious dd's with you.
I promise you won't regret it.

Keep away from you mother.
She doesn't sound like a safe person to have around your DC. She doesn't sound trustworthy. Keep them safe.

Wow, just wow. She has been prioritising your brother (an abuser) over the victims (her daughters) all this time. And you, in turn, have been trained to do the same.

Bin them both, there's no remorse there, no recognition of what they've done to you, no attempt at making amends. Just more abuse.

'Repressed memory' really is a thing. I'd had flashbacks for years that I couldn't place, until they became clear when I had small children, and my DSis had different memories that fitted with mine. There was one particular assault where the police were able to trace one of the perpetrators, but there wasn't enough evidence for the CPS to bring it to court. (Because the perpetrator the family knew was dead.)

As I understand it, it's simply the case that memories processed through EMDR are not allowed in court. But our statements were taken before we did that, so they were accepted as genuine.

I meant complete repression of memory, sorry - your brother claiming not to remember anything at all of those events.

They do allow victims to have talking therapy, as long as the therapist's notes are presented as evidence. EMDR can only happen once the case has been completed.

@category12 Thank you, I understand. My DSis and I don't believe he doesn't remember anything. He was a victim too, and groomed to abuse us. I suspect he's been frightened with the prospect that he might be sent to prison.

Op I posted about similar family situations in December. My sister and I found out that our mother had taken one of our children to collect their rapist friend (D) from prison without our knowledge. We hate this man, always have but our parents think he hung the moon and even let him call them mum and dad.

I disclosed to my mother when I was 14-15 that my stepfather's best friend (S) had raped me repeatedly over the previous 18-24 months. I told her to protect my baby sister and my 12 year old sister. She refused to believe it and kicked me out.... i had no choice but to go and stay with the man and his family. After that my life spiralled out of control and I ended up in a very violent relationship, with a drug addiction and two babies. All the time the man would pop back up into my life every few months when mum asked him and his family to come to our holiday home etc.

I met my husband at 24 and he really helped me. I had a total breakdown at 30 when the man's step daughter who I used to baby sit for found me and told me he was in prison for raping her. Then the whole truth came out. He was a repeatedly convicted rapist and paedo before he even met me or my family. There were rumours at the time but mum and step dad chose to ignore them. At 30 yo I finally got to go to the police and tell them everything and my mum had to confirm that I had told her and she did nothing. Since then my life has improved massively. I've spent A LOT of time in 1-1 therapy and counselling but psychotherapy helped me the most. It's transformed my life and I now have boundaries and a huge dislike for drama where at 20 I fed off it.

My sister and I cut our mother and step dad off 100% in December. We haven't seen or spoken to them since. They risked our children's safety because they prioritise their rapey creepy arsed friends over their own children and grand children. Mother keeps reaching out to my sister like nothing has happened asking what the kids want for Xmas. She doesn't reach out to me at al and I don't know why. She had in the past accused me of being the ring leader of turning the kids and family against her (because I tell the truth and loudly).

We've told our other sister ( their daughter) that mum needs to accept responsibility for her actions and apologise. She can't, it's absolutely impossible for her to see that she has done wrong. So she hasn't seen 6 of her 7 grand kids since December. We never want to see her husband again. But they are still trying to manipulate us through my eldest daughter and our sister.... telling them my mum has been given a 50/50 chance of dying in surgery, she's bed bound, suicidal. It's all lies meant to make us feel guilty and run to fuss over her but for the first time ever it's not working.

My sister and I have realised now how much better our lives have been in the last 8-9 months. No drama. No safe guarding concerns, no worrying if I can trust them etc. My mental health is better than it's ever been as I'm not struggling with the stress of the phone ringing with mum in the other end calling one of my sisters, the council, the neighbours or me fit to burn. I have also started working through a CPTSD book I found on amazon and it's been massively eye opening but has caused some sleepless nights as it's uncovered some things I'd forgotten about. But I think I need that for healing so took a break but will go back to it when the kids are back in school.

If I was in your shoes OP I would seriously consider going zero contact. It's hard, I've had many wobbles but am stronger for it now.

@HotPatootiebootie

I remember your thread. Thank you for sharing this. The difference is that my mum does believe us about what happened, which was why I was unnerved when she insisted that my F's treatment of her wasn't abusive but because of his illness. Does she blame his abuse of us on his medication as well?

She also has this habit of bursting into tears when we bring up the past and asks us not to 'spoil her time with her DGC'. (If only we could escape in that way. )

Then she recently burst into tears on the phone to my DH. I'm now thinking that it's simply a case of 'crocodile tears'.

I'm so sorry you went through what you did. It just stays with us forever, doesn't it?

My mum did believe me about what happened, she just wanted to preserve her friendship and to openly admit that he had raped me would mean that she has made a poor judgement of his character and put me at risk. It would have been a failing on HER part as a parent and so it was easier to say I was lying about the rape and had led him on. Because every 14 year old girl wants to get laid by a pot bellied 45 year old toad with a mullet 🤢.

And it does stay with you forever. I can go months feeling great and then one tiny thing will send me spiralling and I barely sleep for a week and hallucinate. It's brutal. I wouldn't wish it on anybody .

You need to stop your children’s contact with your mother. She is a risk to them because she is trying to encourage you and them to have contact with a sex offender. The fact that he wasn’t convicted isn’t relevant here.

I can’t believe you would even consider this, knowing your children’s background. They are much more vulnerable Than most children and of course your brother and mother know this.

Why do you think your children don’t want to be alone with her ? that’s not normal for GC. It’s because she is saying and perhaps doing things that make them uncomfortable.

I honestly can’t believe that you can’t see this big red flag. Don’t you remember ANYTHING from your home study?

Haven’t you had any support or therapy after your own disclosures of abuse ?

I’ll tell you what - why don’t you phone your children’s social worker and ask their advice ? Remember to explain the family are concerned that the abuser is feeling hurt and rejected because his victims won’t have a relationship with him. Explain that his GP and psychiatrist Apparently say he shouldn’t have to face up to what he’s done.

Oh and that no one in the family feels he should be held accountable because it wasn’t his fault. And that everyone is prioritising the perpetrator rather than the victims.

I’m sure they will give you some VERY clear advice. This is a MASSIVE safe guarding issue and they will want to come round and discuss it with you as a matter of urgency.

Does your brother have access to other children socially or in his job? what about the other children that your father abused ?

I’m sorry to be so blunt with you as I’m aware that you are a survivor and are vulnerable yourself. But the day the adoption order was granted was the day You needed to stay putting your children’s welfare about your own and your mothers feelings.

@HotPatootiebootie

Op I posted about similar family situations in December. My sister and I found out that our mother had taken one of our children to collect their rapist friend (D) from prison without our knowledge. We hate this man, always have but our parents think he hung the moon and even let him call them mum and dad.

I disclosed to my mother when I was 14-15 that my stepfather's best friend (S) had raped me repeatedly over the previous 18-24 months. I told her to protect my baby sister and my 12 year old sister. She refused to believe it and kicked me out.... i had no choice but to go and stay with the man and his family. After that my life spiralled out of control and I ended up in a very violent relationship, with a drug addiction and two babies. All the time the man would pop back up into my life every few months when mum asked him and his family to come to our holiday home etc.

I met my husband at 24 and he really helped me. I had a total breakdown at 30 when the man's step daughter who I used to baby sit for found me and told me he was in prison for raping her. Then the whole truth came out. He was a repeatedly convicted rapist and paedo before he even met me or my family. There were rumours at the time but mum and step dad chose to ignore them. At 30 yo I finally got to go to the police and tell them everything and my mum had to confirm that I had told her and she did nothing. Since then my life has improved massively. I've spent A LOT of time in 1-1 therapy and counselling but psychotherapy helped me the most. It's transformed my life and I now have boundaries and a huge dislike for drama where at 20 I fed off it.

My sister and I cut our mother and step dad off 100% in December. We haven't seen or spoken to them since. They risked our children's safety because they prioritise their rapey creepy arsed friends over their own children and grand children. Mother keeps reaching out to my sister like nothing has happened asking what the kids want for Xmas. She doesn't reach out to me at al and I don't know why. She had in the past accused me of being the ring leader of turning the kids and family against her (because I tell the truth and loudly).

We've told our other sister ( their daughter) that mum needs to accept responsibility for her actions and apologise. She can't, it's absolutely impossible for her to see that she has done wrong. So she hasn't seen 6 of her 7 grand kids since December. We never want to see her husband again. But they are still trying to manipulate us through my eldest daughter and our sister.... telling them my mum has been given a 50/50 chance of dying in surgery, she's bed bound, suicidal. It's all lies meant to make us feel guilty and run to fuss over her but for the first time ever it's not working.

My sister and I have realised now how much better our lives have been in the last 8-9 months. No drama. No safe guarding concerns, no worrying if I can trust them etc. My mental health is better than it's ever been as I'm not struggling with the stress of the phone ringing with mum in the other end calling one of my sisters, the council, the neighbours or me fit to burn. I have also started working through a CPTSD book I found on amazon and it's been massively eye opening but has caused some sleepless nights as it's uncovered some things I'd forgotten about. But I think I need that for healing so took a break but will go back to it when the kids are back in school.

If I was in your shoes OP I would seriously consider going zero contact. It's hard, I've had many wobbles but am stronger for it now.

Hope you don't mind me asking hotpatootie what your CPTSD book is pls? Going through similar situation and trying to make sense of everything and not sure what books are useful. to you, OP and all in a similar situation. It's really hard to be objective when it's yourself and to know what's 'normal'