Post birth intimacy

[Daddy35NW]

Hi, I can’t actually believe I’m posting on mumsnet, but just after a little bit of advice and possibly criticism (braces).
I’m in my second year of marriage and fifth year of my relationship. We had a beautiful daughter prior to the lock down. Things couldn’t be better with regards our daughters development and our enjoyment from being first time parents, but our relationship is kind of struggling. I appreciate that children are disruptive to relationships and that is to be expected to some degree, but we seem to have no time for each other between caring for our daughter, work, keeping a home etc.
We have had sex twice in 12months, and I’ve tried go be considerate, but it is starting to concern me and make me worried for our long term future.
I have always had a higher sex drive than my wife, she has a very stressful career and often uses this as a reason to avoid sex. I can honestly count on one have the times she has initiated sex and I feel that if I didn’t bring it up, then it would never happen.
It’s not as if I always want it either. The problem has got worse since the birth of our daughter(understandably), but it was present beforehand. If I’m honest our daughter was likely conceived after a discussion about lack of sex.
She swears it’s not an attraction issue and that it’s often how she feels about herself. She insists on a bath, and full self-pampering session before she’ll even entertain the idea, despite me often saying I’m not bothered and find her attractive regardless.
When I broach the subject now, she’ll brush it off with some false promises and then when the time comes she starts telling me I’m selfish and unsupportive for bringing it up when she’s stressed.
We have a great life, both have really good careers, lovely home and family. We get on exceptionally well for the most part and I don’t want to be with anybody else. I’m concerned for our future though and more concerned that she has this fantastic ability to make me feel bad about myself by accusing me of being selfish.
Is our sexual frequency in anyway normal for a healthy couple in our 30s?

Are you breastfeeding? I had a very low sex drive whilst in my first year of breastfeeding. The hormones your body produces whilst feeding can lower libido.

Also, be kind on yourself, you are probably more tired and busy than ever in your life.

My sex life with husband has only really started getting back on track in the last 6 months or so (our son is 2yrs 4 months). Before that it was about once a month

I've just realised I missed the third paragraph from the bottom, you are obviously not breastfeeding! Sorry about that....however is your wife?

It is quite normal for relationships to be very strained in the first few years. My husband was shocked at the loss of who he thought I was and we have had to take time to find our new normal.

Many people that I know who have broken up post baby have done so around 18month to 2years after having a child and I believe it is the most challenging time.

When you say you've had sex twice in 12 months, do you mean the last 12 months, six of which your wife was pregnant and the other six she was busy with a small baby? If so, that sounds pretty normal to me. I think you might well have been underestimating quite how disruptive a baby is.

If you mean that it's always been around that level, then it's not the average for the population, no. But it sounds like it might be average for your wife? Or did her libido use to be different? Or were you just OK with it before?

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, my wife is breast feeding and I’m aware of the effects this can have with hormones and libido. My concern is more that I think we had the issue beforehand and this obviously magnified it. It’s reassuring to know that many others find it a strain.
It’s the way my wife makes me feel like I’m being completely unreasonable and more or less shuts me down that is of most concern. I try to be diplomatic and try to not raise the subject for long periods (weeks), but always end up feeling rejected. I’m not sure she understands the emotional aspect for me and thinks it’s all physical urge

Yes approx the last 4 months of pregnancy and 8 months post birth and I hold my hands up to say I did underestimate the disruption. It’s not as if I want it every night or even every week. Previous to that we were probably twice a month and almost exclusively my initiation. I had to work hard on our wedding night, as she was too tired. I’m probably putting too much emphasis on it, but I’m only being true to myself. I’m 100% faithful and committed. I want to get to the route of the issue, but my wife won’t recognise that there is one

My exh's libido was apparently without bounds, so the first time I slept with someone with a lower libido than me, I was surprised by how disappointing it was, and by the feeling of rejection even though I knew it wasn't intended. If your wife has always had a lower libido than her partners, then she probably does find it hard to imagine what it feels like.

How are you trying to tempt her into it?

My wife seems to suggest my libido is stronger than her ex’s, but I don’t think I’m particularly extreme and have had past partners that have had a libido equal or stronger than mine. In all honesty I’m kind of that past the rejection that I’m not doing much to initiate it. I do complement her lots, but she dismisses my compliments as politeness and says “you have to say that” or other such phrases. I occasionally ask if we can try to find the time within the next few days (so spontaneous and romantic).

Complimenting doesn't always work if someone is convinced they are ugly, for instance, as they might think the compliments are fake, and the effect is simply to remind them of how they see themself :(

I was thinking more of things like cooking some yummy dinner, putting the baby to bed and bringing her a glass of her favourite wine, then cuddling up on the settee and stroking her back as you watch a feel-good film. Then seeing how she reacts if you get a bit more active with the stroking and see if she might accept a kiss. Corny, I know.

Yeah what you describe is how she takes my compliments. I put the baby to bed every night, as she won’t settle without a feed for my wife. I also cook the dinner 9 out of 10 nights. The 10th night is a takeaway. I’m starting to feel like a bit of a mug

I don’t often get up during the night though as I do a lot of miles for work. My wife is doing a fantastic job with our daughter and isn’t at all lazy

In any case, you're not being weird to feel rejected, but you did sign up to life with someone you knew was happy with less sex than you. And this is a really bad time to start bringing it up. And complaining about a lack of sex, or begging for more, is unfortunately a real turn-off.

Do you think that your wife feels as if you are criticising her? "Frigid" is one of those insults women often hear from about age 12 and "not enough sex" can sound a lot like "not sexy enough"...

I guess at times she’s taken it as criticism when I’ve voiced my frustration. She has a real ability to make me feel guilty and if I’m u reasonable. I did sign up, you are correct. I did so because there is no such thing as perfect and I couldn’t live happily without most aspects of our relationship. I thought it was madness to end a relationship over a bit of a mismatch of libidos and I could cope with two or three times a month. I’m not sure I can cope long term with the current frequency.
I do very much appreciate your replies and it’s great to get some anonymous input from the opposite sex

She has a real ability to make me feel guilty and if I’m u reasonable.
If she's feeling under attack, then she might subconsciously feel as if she's defending herself. A family member of mine often comes across as really bitchy - I know it's because she is somewhat paranoid and thinks everyone else is being horrible to her. Still bloody awful to live with though.

Frequency of sex is not something you can push hard on, if at all, so the only thing you can really try to get her to change is her unwillingness to discuss it. She might see it as pointless, though, as she's not suddenly going to feel any hornier however much you talk.

Maybe go in from the side, try to talk about her feelings, whether she is happy in the relationship and in her own skin - without making it about sex at all? It might give you useful insights.

Also, more wine!

My DP and I have mismatched libidos (mine is far higher than his) and it caused so many upsets initially. It took 3 years but after a lot of talking and trying different things out we now settle for once a week/twice if I’m lucky (more now we’re TTC). I also realised that I saw sex as a physical release as opposed to my DP who sees it as an opportunity for connection, care and love. We’ve both had to work on the way in which we see sex. Are you able to speak with her openly? She may be defensive because if she feels insecure - she may lash out at you to protect herself.
Unfortunately, I do think you will have to wait until baby is older to really begin to work on things. She will be going through hell right now with hormones/tiredness/her identity as someone’s Mum as well as your wife. Try not to worry too much (I know that’s easier said than done - this will only add extra pressure to you both)

Yes, that’s good advice and something that needs to be done. Tough being an adult!

From what you've said, and what your wife seems to have said to you, I think maybe she is too self conscious to actually enjoy it, so then it becomes a chore to her. I think you need to help make it more enjoyable for her.

I know you said that this was a problem before she was pregnant but if the baby is only about six months old and she is breastfeeding then this is surely the worst time to be pressing her.

Breastfeeding IMO is one sure fire way to have zero interest in sex. I am sure others will disagree but omg, a baby on your nipples half the day - everyone else can eff off thank you.

Also, it's not just about compliments - to her those might just sound like an attempted exchange for getting into her pants, which might be why she's trying to brush them off! It's more about showing her your affection and your desire to please her.

I’m thinking that, seeing as your wife calls you “selfish and unsupportive for bringing it up when she’s stressed” when you try to talk about the lack of sex, you could possibly fix this by being more supportive of her and reducing her stress levels.

I understand your frustration OP but I also totally see your wife’s perspective. I think it’s hard for a man to understand how a woman feels after having gone through pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding a newborn and then add in a stressful career and you say she’s also the one waking up during the night.

I’m 6 weeks postpartum right now and it’s hard when my DH moans about a lack of sex for me not to scream “someone recently took a pair of SCISSORS to my vagina” and I’m so tired from sleep deprivation I feel like I’m losing my mind, and you’re upset about lack of SEX!”. There’s nothing like resentment and a lack of appreciation to kill a woman’s sex drive.

Make her feel like a goddess for everything she’s been through to bring your daughter into this world and keep her alive and thriving. Tell her how much you appreciate her. Give her a massage. Give her hugs. Ask her if she’s okay and really listen when she tells you why she’s feeling so stressed and in need of support.

It can be a vicious cycle of wife feels resentful and puts up a barrier, husband feels rejected and puts up a barrier, repeat...

I totally agree with @Chamomileteaplease

I think whatever was happening pre-pregnancy/birth of your daughter and whatever realisation you have come to since this is the worst time to be bringing this up or raising the issue with your wife.

Just let her be whatever she needs to be while your baby is so young. That may include the need for her not to have to be a sexual being.

My DH and I had fairly matched libidos and a really enjoyable sex life but post-baby/whilst breastfeeding it just wasn't within my capability to be that way anymore. DH took some time to adjust to and accept this sudden change and it led to some really shitty conversations and upset. I look back now and I'm still hurt by some of it but can see now it was just a change my DH had no real concept of because he wasn't in it and we all needed time to adjust. He was going on what things were like before and I was in a totally different place. No one's fault just one of the challenges of negotiating life post-baby.

If your wife feels self-conscious, it doesn't help to reassure her that you are fine with how she is, she needs to feel that she is ok with herself. If that takes a bath and a pamper I don't necessarily see that as a problem.

I know some people are intimate quickly after birth but in my experience the best gift you can give your future sex life is to invest in it now by relieving your wife of any pressure, by telling her you understand she has really important reasons why she may not feel able to participate right now, that you will do whatever you can to help ease her stress and you will be there when she feels ready. This is a uniquely demanding time and I would remind yourself it is temporary, don't go running ahead of yourself thinking your marriage will always be this way or this is how it is with kids. It can be how it is for a while when they're young but it will improve.

It will likely take longer to improve if your wife feels any pressure or resentment though.

Please see the intimacy she is giving you in being your partner and raising your child. She is giving everything to your family right now and she's not doing it with anyone else but you. She's using her body to feed your child. She's being a Mum to your baby and a good partner to you, she's caring for your needs by letting you sleep at night etc. I understand you miss sex, but please see the intimacy in being parents together, see the care she is giving you and feel proud and loved through that.

When the pressure has really eased from the baby point of view (in my experience after stopping breastfeeding/when they sleep better/about 18 months) and you still feel unhappy about this aspect I think you'll have a better chance of getting somewhere if you work on it then and you have shown her respect and support previously. I think you'll do more harm than good trying to push it now.

Such good advice from Kormakorma, and others on this thread. I have 3 DC, the first two within 2 years of each other, all breastfed and all rubbish sleepers (so far - the youngest is only 3 weeks so not v fair to judge him yet!!) But in my experience it was only after my middle child turned 3 years that sex really started getting back to pre-pregnancy levels. I stopped bf at 10 months or so with DC1 and DC2 but the sleep deprivation and also the bigger question of figuring out my new identity as a mum, adjusting to how my body had changed etc, was just a complete passion killer for me. Interestingly this time around with DC3, with DH being really hands on and supportive with extended paternity leave, I already feel much more interested in the idea of sex - partly because I’m not contending with the shock of becoming a parent in the same way, because he is being great, and because he hasn’t put it in the agenda at all yet! Agree with everything that has been said above about offering support at home, particularly giving her time and space to be herself again without a small person latched on to her (literally!) - thinking about the small things (eg getting her to go for a massage or a pedicure, go for a coffee with friends etc, or yes - having a long bath!), and finding ways of keeping physically close with cuddles etc that have absolutely NO agenda or ‘maybe this will lead to sex’ vibe about them.

She's probably knackered and wants rest more than she wants sex.
Maybe you could split the night shift with her?
That's what I used to do when I went back to work and my then-H was a house husband. If the baby woke up before 3am I got up, if after 3am he got up.
That way we both got some sleep every night (and alternated lie-ins at the weekend)

@ravenmum

Complimenting doesn't always work if someone is convinced they are ugly, for instance, as they might think the compliments are fake, and the effect is simply to remind them of how they see themself :(

I was thinking more of things like cooking some yummy dinner, putting the baby to bed and bringing her a glass of her favourite wine, then cuddling up on the settee and stroking her back as you watch a feel-good film. Then seeing how she reacts if you get a bit more active with the stroking and see if she might accept a kiss. Corny, I know.

Oh that is so true, you think you're lying, aren't you?