What could be wrong with her?

[Heidi3333]

What could be wrong with her?

Hi there. Just looking for some opinions please.

My brother split with his ex wife 5 years ago. They have 3 kids together age7, 9 and 12. Their relationship was very turbulent and she eventually left him for another man, falling pregnant with the new man 6 months later. My brother divorced her and she still with the other man.

She has a reputation for being moody, fiery and prone to having aggressive outbursts over trivial things that wouldn’t upset anyone else but she has gotten worse the last few years since. She was always fine with me but everyone else in my family have had problems with her. Her own family say she was a v “troubled” child.

I’m a nurse (not psychiatric) and have a basic understanding of mental health but I’m sure she needs help. However, I’m not sure exactly what could be troubling her.

Some examples of her behaviour :

⁃	extremely jealous of other women paying attention (even working with or talking) to my brother when they were married. Even though my brother has remained single since they split she’s said she will go crazy when he eventually meets someone else. 
⁃	She slashed their car tyres to ensure a friend couldn’t borrow their car then cracked up at my brother when he didn’t replace the tyres quickly enough.
⁃	Frequently tells my brother his children aren’t his, that he needs a DNA test, that they hate him etc etc and that her life mission is to turn them against him. He is a great Dad and the kids seem to love him.
⁃	Is always falling out with family and friends.
⁃	Seems to enjoy fighting and arguing with people. Volunteered to come and ‘sort out’ some people I was having bother with.
⁃	Uses her children as pawns to extort money/child visits out my brother all the time. Doesn’t care if she upsets her children by denying them access to their Dad to get what she wants. This can go on for months at a time.
⁃	Goes onto her 12 year old daughters social media and pretends to be her by posting horrible comments about her Dad.
⁃	Is very controlling with her children when they are visiting their Dad - always phoning, checking and even coming and taking them back to hers if certain conditions she’s made (usually v unreasonable) aren’t met.

The list goes on and on.

As far as I know she isn’t violent but my brothers both think she is capable of hurting someone.

She doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her and has never sought help.

I’m worried that my nieces are suffering from emotional abuse and that they will end up damaged.

My brother is currently getting legal help to get regular access to his kids as he hasn’t had them up for months.

What could be the matter with her? And is there anything I can do?

Ah yes, a lot of abusive men like to needle their partners and then, later when the abused woman gets angry with him, paint her as the abusive one.
Classic

@PerfectPenquins

Why did your brother continue to have children with her if she is so bad?

Asking kids direct questions of who they wish to live with is manipulation. Kids want to please people and will say whatever they believe that adults wants to hear.

If your brother was unconcerned he could have filed for an emergency order hearing straight away, why didn't he?

There is no such thing as paying more maintenance than he should. There is a minimum not a maximum

The issue us her bad behaviour has gone unquestioned and unreported for years. If there was actual concerns I would have expected the adults to safeguard the children long before the parents split. Claiming mental instability is a common malicious tactic when arguing over residency of children so it can be hard to believe.

She's is terrible with money and has recently become bankrupt. She commonly demands extra money from him in order to see his children! I've been there when she's come to pick up the kids because he's refused to give into her blackmail.

I agree he should have sorted this out legally along time ago but he couldn't financially afford to get legal help and wasn't eligible for legal aid. However, he is now in a position to get legal help.

How do you know she's terrible with money?
You dint even know her, yet you know this personal detail.....

@roundandsideways

How do you know she's terrible with money? You dint even know her, yet you know this personal detail.....

Er I've known her about 20 years 🙄.

I'm going to stop replying to you now bc I think you're just looking for a fight. You sound quite like her actually...

She does know her.....it’s you that doesn’t know her

Ha, I sound like her do I?
It must be awful, when someone points out the truth, and sees through these claims you're making, without any evidence except your opinion.
Just FYI, you can not just ask over the Internet, whether your sil has a mental health disorder, this requires a qualified professional, who will not make a diagnosis based on your biased opinion

Why is it that on mumsnet whenever anyone mentions a horrible person - and from what OP has said her ex SIL is a horrible person - alot of people immediately jump to borderline personality disorder?

The thing is nobody but a psychiatrist - who actually meets and talks with your ex SIL will be able to give any kind of diagnosis, there may not even be a diagnosis she could just be horrible person, or she may even be a nice person who has been made to look bad (this does happen, and some people are very, very good at making others look bad).

Borderline personality disorder I'd say, an inability to manage and regulate her emotions and struggles to form and maintain normal and healthy relationships. She sounds quite text book to me in my professional opinion xx

Hope yr brother can get regular contact agreed so he doesn't have to communicate with her, that's the best way tbh; 'parallel parenting'. But it's unlikely she'll give up that power and control.

@Heidi3333 - this sounds like an incredibly difficult situation and I don't really have any advice except to say that it would be better not to ask your nieces if they want to live with your brother or things like that. I'm sure it felt like a very natural question but doing things like that gives your ex-SIL an excuse to shut you out (as she has indeed done) and that isn't good for your nieces.

We all make mistakes (and I can things of countless things I should have done differently in the past) but it would probably be more helpful to your nieces, and possibly even your brother, if you could try and maintain a reasonably civil relationship with your ex-SIL even if she is very difficult.

@roundandsideways

Ah yes, a lot of abusive men like to needle their partners and then, later when the abused woman gets angry with him, paint her as the abusive one. Classic

This.

The opening post actually screams of it.

I have bpd and along the way have met many other people with bpd and none who have behaved in this manner. Sounds like something different but it's for a psychiatrist to assess and diagnose.

If she has mental health problems why has your brother given back the kids. He has full parental rights same as her.

Something doesn’t add up here

He’s deemed her with MH and the family have went along with it. Did you see his text to her or just hers

You state you know her but do you really and do you know your brother really.

For some strange reason I find myself actually feeling sorry for this woman. No one knows what’s been going on behind closed doors and all of a sudden her ex in laws want to diagnose her with MH issues and are asking her kids if they’d prefer to live with their dad?

Correct me if I’m wrong but it does sound very manipulative on your behalf.

I'm going to go off the idea that OP genuinely has the impression that the behaviours she has witnessed from this woman have been troubling because otherwise, she probably wouldn't be posting here. If she was interested in smearing someone, she would just be doing it - to people who actually know them. Abusive people generally don't feel the need to look for advice because they don't care about others and don't doubt themselves.

However, her behaviour, as its described, is very overt. Usually, these kinds of abusers would be much more subtle in a way where it's very difficult to know what's going on. Eg. On the social media point - A parent engaged in alienation is more likely to endear the child to themselves (making out they're a hero, underdog or martyr) whilst inappropriately laying it on thick about how the other parent is harming them or the child and that might cause the child to send negative messages about the other parent - posting their own thoughts without permission risks the child seeing the separation from their parent's thoughts and possibly even feeling wronged by their parent.

Whilst I'd be hesistant to bother with mental health stuff, this just sounds more like a narcissistic asshole than anyone with BPD. Just pure controlling. "I'm your mother, I can do exactly what I want" sort of thing. Even on your brother's time.

This might mean that your nieces have more of a chance of realising some of her behaviour is not reasonable. It's very important that people stand up to this behaviour around your nieces though because if they see it gets their mother what she wants, they might eventually copy it.

All you can really do is advise your brother. (Unless you think those kids are being abused or neglected and he won't act, in which case absolutely report to SS. It'll probably just end up as a footnote. But they're only going to ask why nobody did earlier if there's a huge litany of complaints in court and he ends up with a section 7 anyway.)

Your brother needs to take some legal action and quickly. Divorcing people with narcissistic traits is not fun but there is no excuse for leaving his kids to deal with this by themselves. If they are showing signs of anxiety he needs to ask for more time with them and fast, screw what he wants.

He needs to ignore all the stuff about her being jealous, cheating, falling out with people etc that's personal business and won't matter in court, he needs to tell his solicitor about any issues and behaviour that might be effecting the children.
These include (from what you said)
-Intrusion into other parenting space:
Including Excessive calls/texts, Early collections, Setting and enforcing rules
-Possible Parental Alienation
She confessed to this (I've heard women say what you said word for word so...)
However, if the kids are upset when they can't see him, then she is fortunately not doing so well so far. (That doesn't mean don't take it seriously.)
-Access Issues
He hasn't had them for months? Is that because of lockdown?
-Kids Mental Health
The kids are showing signs of anxiety. If your brother is in a position to get legal help now, can he also maybe pay for some councilling?

It's also very important that he doesn't accidentally join in with her in making a stressful environment for the kids, and whilst he should correct lies told about him if the children present them to him, he shouldn't interrogate the kids for information on their mother or say anything negative about her. In fact unless the kids bring her up, best not to mention her at all.

Sorry, didn't realise they were already divorced!
I assume they don't have a court order for child arrangements or is she in violation of it? Either way it sounds like he needs to go back.

If your brother was more responsible he would have fought legally to get a court ordered visitation schedule. I don’t buy that he couldn’t afford it.

He could have booked mediation, he didn’t.

He could have self represented in court, he didn’t.

He could have not brought 3 children into what you characterise as a “turbulent” relationship, he didn’t.

And you say you “never” get involved, but then got in the children’s ear asking “would you like to come live with daddy?” Thus causing trouble & putting the children in between. I don’t even have kids & know full well in a divorce situation you shouldn’t ask the kids who they want to live with because they will feel stuck in the middle & that causes them stress.

Why didn’t you or your family lend your brother money for legal advice so he could fight for his kids in court? Sell a car, re-mortgage, get a better paying job...something, anything.

I find it very hard to believe that he was unable to afford legal advice but didn’t qualify for legal aid. Apparently now he does, so what changed exactly in his circumstances?

I not suggesting that his ex doesn’t have emotional issues, but you haven’t said anything which suggests the children are actually being neglected here.

What exactly do you plan to tell social services ? What is your exact complaint ? I daresay you’d have more success going through the usual channels like mediation & court than trying to prove she is an unfit mother.

Thanks v much for the replies.
To address some points:

• a few of you have suggested my brother is the abuser and that he is simply making up all the claims about her or is needling her to behave the way she does. My family and myself have seen evidence for ourselves over the years what she is like! Why is it that when a man accuses a woman of abusive behaviour that some people assume he's responsible for her behaviour or that he's making it up? But if a man is accused then people just automatically accept it must be true! Woman can be abusive too!
• the arrangement since they separated was that the kids lived with her and my brother got them at the weekends. For the most part this has worked but she goes through long spells where she denies him access for whatever reason. Often it's to do with money. She didn't want the kids coming to his during lockdown as I'm often next door at my parents and as I'm a nurse she worried about the kids getting covid19. Fair enough. However, my brother increased her maintenance money during lockdown as she was having them all the time but now they are able to come to his now at the weekends due to covid situation improving she is demanding that she still receives the increased payments! My brother is refusing to do this and has dropped her maintenance back down to the normal amount and so she is refusing to let him see the kids for this reason. He hasn't had them for the weekend for nearly 5 months.
• he did get legal advice in the past but was told by the lawyer that it would cost £1000s to fight her, money my brother just did not have and he wasn't eligible for legal aid. However, my Dad has just sold his farm and has come into a lot of money and is now in a position to help my brother out financially.
• yes, I shouldn't have said what I said to the girls about living with their dad. However, after remaining neutral with them over all the conflict for years I slipped up. I won't be doing it again. However, I still do believe that it would be in their best interests for them to live with their father.
• my family haven't suddenly decided she has MH issues. We have known for years she has!! She just seems to be getting worse. I have always suspected there was something 'wrong' with her, I couldn't put my finger on it. The reason I started this thread was to guage other people's opinions.

Anyway, i hope that has cleared up some points. I do appreciate all the comments.

X

You know that booking mediation doesn’t cost a lot & he could have organised that himself, right? he distant even bother to start proceedings...

He *didn’t bother to start proceedings

How is trying to prove your sil has mental health problems going to help your brother with access?
Whether or not she asks for maintenance has nothing to do with access
It reads as though all you want is to not pay maintenance, and you want your brother to have custody so he won't have to pay maintenance
You have not answered the query as to why he left the children with someone he considers unable to parent, which you base purely upon her reactions to you and your brother, not any sign of actual harm to the children

The problem with these situations is that usually both parents are making the problems worse. He won’t get any legal advice or go to court, so he is constantly stuck in a cycle of hating her, not seeing the kids, resenting the money he pays her and she is stuck in a cycle of anger at him for constantly what may feel like undermining her playing emotional games as well with the DC.
At visits with their dad these DC should not have to feel under pressure to tell tales on their mother and make decisions about where they live.
He had THREE children with her so got her pregnant 3 times despite knowing she is possibly unstable and violitile? Then left them with her?

GET PROPER LEGAL ADVICE

OP, I mean this nicely, gauging strangers' views of your secondhand accounts of your brother's wife's behavior does absolutely nothing for anyone. Especially since you say yourself that your family already have decided she has mh issues. It's not as if anything we might say would be a revelation. It just feels like curtain twitching gossip sadly.

If you came here to discuss how you felt, you might have got a warmer reception. But symptom based gossip about a woman you already obviously dislike, that's going to rub many the wrong way. Especially those of us who have been demonized by our exes.

I'm sorry your exsil has caused so many issues in your family, hopefully it can be resolved but possibly you'll have to wait it out.

Your DB needs to take and follow legal advice. Beyond that, you all should probably limit how much you discuss the ex. It doesn't help and just stokes the drama.

@fantasmasgoria1
I was going to say the same thing. I have BPD and I know not everyone displays the same but she doesn't sound BPD - she just sounds mean.