Existing in a marriage.

[AngryPancake]

My marriage is complicated. I’ve not been happy for a number of years now but I have to exist in it because there’s no fees able way I can leave or afford to leave.

My Husband works for a family business. I’ve been with him for 25 years and we have 3 DC 15,12, 10.

I’m a sociable person. He hates people. He really dislikes my friends and now refuses to have anything to do with them. I am very passionate about my hobbies, my husband has no interests of his own and he hates mine. One in particular he’s regularly rude unsupportive and vocally offensive about. He is also an incredibly jealous person and often becomes difficult to live with if something really gets to him.

I really don’t like to admit this but I don’t enjoy intimacy with him any more. I feel guilty because he does tell me that I’m beautiful and he loves me, but I hate myself. The other problem is that he hasn’t been to a dentist for 12 years. He’s “scared” of them and says that his teeth are fine. But he has such terrible breath that it puts me off. We haven’t kissed for years.

He often gropes and grabs at me for his own gratification, and most mornings will see to his own needs. I understand that, and I will usually go along with it.

He’s frequently huffy. He often tells me that I’m unreasonable and selfish when I ask him to do things. He works almost 7 days a week and I do understand he’s tired, but god at least 10 years everything that isn’t the business has just been left to practically decompose.

I can’t leave him, it’s just not happening as we are in a financially impossible situation. If I were to leave him I really don’t think he’d carry on, I know he’s probably depressed but he does nothing about it other than pile pressure on me as being his “everything”.

The kids however are happy. We go through patches of arguing. He sulks often and goes to bed early most nights. He would rather spend the evening on his phone than interact with me though.

His idea of important is the whole family constantly spending family time together. This involves sitting in the living room watching rubbish on tv and him on his phone.

I don’t work as he had traditional views when we were younger that I foolishly just accepted. Now the truth is we can’t afford childcare.

I’ve suffered depression and anxiety over the last few years. Initially brought on specifically by his behaviour. I feel that everything I ever do I have to ask his permission for. There are things I know I’ll never be allowed to do. Going away for girly weekends or more than one night for example unless it’s specifically for a big birthday situation is always a complete nightmare, and he tells me as a mother that shouldn’t be doing it. There’s so much he hates that it leaves me feeling massive resentment and frustration. Everything we do MUST be as a family.

I know that this is a highly complex situation, and I hope I’ve been able to explain things, but what I need is help to work out how I carry on existing in our marriage. It’s getting harder and harder. I’m 42, and I know I could have another 30 years of living like this.

He sounds like an arse! Don't let money stand in your way of leaving. Surely its better to be happy. Have you looked into what benefits you'd be entitled to and how much maintenance he'd have to give you? Contact your local housing association/Council and see if you qualify for housing. You only get one life and you deserve to be happy.

I think you might have to explore leaving him in a bit more detail. You're married to a rapist who dominates and terrorizes you and is teaching your kids that control and isolation = love. You can't really do this forever can you?

Otherwise, I mean, yeah you are going to have a really shit, depressing life if you can't find a way. Your kids will probably also have fairly shit lives.

Might it be worth being poor, if it means you can be free?

The fact you've written all this down and asked for advice makes me think this might be your first step on your new life. I understand your anxiety and the worry about leaving. Don't leave yet you have time to get a new way of life organised. Think about training to find a job that you could do to support yourself.

If he's going to bed early that is at least giving yo a time when you can relax and don't have to walk on eggshells. Do you have friends/family you can rant to to help ease the burden of all of this?

I think if you can 'compartmentalise' your feelings for him - don't argue with him and don't let the horrible things he says to you get you down kind of - in one ear out the other. Say9ing things like this to you and you believing it will undermine your confidence.

Don't give him any ideas that you feel like this - if he's jealous and controlling this will definitely make him worse.

OP read the book "too good to leave, too bad to stay" by Mira Kirschenbaum. Its an excellent book for anyone in doubt about their relationship and considering whether its worth staying in the marriage. I think the questions she poses will bring you to some rather startling conclusions about your marriage. Its very balanced though and not at all leaning towards encouraging women to leave- but it makes you really look at the fundamentals of your relationship, and how healthy they are.

Can you tell us why there's no way you can leave? You sound really unhappy.

Would he consider marriage counseling? Do you think this is at all salvageable? Or is it effectively over?

If your child was in this situation you find yourself in, what advice or support would you give them?

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up; did you see similar at home from your parents?.

You're now 42; do not get to 43 and be in such an abusive marriage. This is over anyway because of the abuse he metes out towards you and in turn your children who pick up on all the vibes both spoken and unspoken between you two. You cannot exist in such a marriage; doing so will only further break you and in turn your kids and you're already suffering from depression and anxiety (he likely being the root causes of both).

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?. Where are your family here?.

Do not undertake any form of joint counselling with him; its never recommended anyway where there is abuse of any type within the relationship?. Counselling for yourself through the likes of Womens Aid and your local domestic violence group would be helpful.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. I doubt that the kids are happy at all; they are all too clearly seeing their dad conduct his own private abuse based war here against you as their mother. Do not kid yourself here at all re them.

You in turn are staying within this for your own reasons; these being financial concerns and feeling responsible for him (codependency) . Both are piss poor reasons for staying together. They are not going to say thanks mum to you for staying with him and that could well lead to your own relationship with them being damaged. One day your kids will leave home and sooner rather than later if you two stay together.

You have a choice re him; they do not and the two of you are providing them with the blueprint for their own adult relationships. Is this really the legacy you want to be leaving them?. No it is not and the only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

Thank you so much for replying.

I never really considered him to be a rapist. I’m not sure I really feel violated in that way. The worst he does is grope me when I’m sleeping. I have to lay really still because if he thinks I’m awake then he’ll just go in for it. He does sulk if I really fight him off but I understand he has needs, because men do.

My kids are definitely happy though and that’s the main thing. They know we sometimes argue but that’s about it. In fact if I were to leave now I know they would be very angry at me. They’d need to stay here too because it’s their home.

I just can’t leave for many reasons. I’ve got no job (At 42 having not worked since my mid 20’s there’s just no way anyone would employ me. Physically I’m not very aesthetically pleasing either and so they also goes against my chances.)

I have absolutely no money at all. The family business has been in a terrible way for many years now and everything goes in it.

I have no pension no will and pretty much don’t exist as a person. I’ve never been on benefits before so I don’t even know where that would begin.

Ultimately I’m scared because if I left my husband He would have no one. He’s incredibly bitter and although he has some friends he sees maybe once or twice a year, he’d be completely on his own and I’d be terrified of what he’d do. I also know my kids would never forgive me. It’s just an impossible situation.

If I do leave it’s going to be once the kids have left school and left home. But again, I’ve no idea how I’d do it. I just need to know how to enjoy life up until that point.

He makes me feel guilty over the slightest things. He also makes me feel dirty and weird. I can’t really explain it with detail. He’s in the past stalked me in social media and he’s also been on mumsnet so I have to constantly change my name!

Also he would never consider counselling. There was a few years ago an incident where we had a huge falling out (this ended up with him stalking me on social media and getting me to the point where I had to go on ADs because I was at breaking point) He said he’d go then but it was only in his words “so a counsellor can’t tell you how wrong you are”

(Situation was something they was totally innocuous but sent him crazy. Friends got involved because they were worried for me. I really didn’t do anything wrong at all, and it was a horrible horrible time.)

I stay with him too because I know that no one else would ever touch me. He does tell me I’m beautiful and that I have an amazing body etc. I really don’t, I look awful, I’m totally over the hill now too and I know that I’d just spend the rest of my life alone if I left, and that is also a scary thought.

I'd rather be a single mum on benefits until I got a job than stay with this man. You can't stay because you think your kids are happy when they practically only interact with you. Kids pick up on more than you realise. Not your responsibility to make sure a grown man is happy.

Small steps.
Apply for jobs that would work with DC schooling or volunteer.
Build up your self esteem.
Start to squirrel away money, slowly over time, it will build up to a deposit for rent on a flat.
Look at what benefits you would be entitled to.
Get counseling for yourself.
It may take some time to leave, but start to plan now.

OP you have got into the habit of believing everything is impossible and everything must stay the same for ever. But that really isn't the case.

For instance, I'm struggling to understand just how much childcare you'd need for children of those ages? If your youngest child is ten they'll be moving to senior school (or at least, they'll be of senior school age,) in the coming year. Surely they will be getting themself to school, with or without their siblings. And at eleven could be adequately supervised at home for an hour or two by the then sixteen year old. Or whatever. The point is - not being able to afford childcare should not be a reason why you can't try to find a job.

And you speak as if you're the only person ever to have had a long period without work. You're not - and people in this situation do get jobs.

You do not look as unattractive as you think.

You would be able to apply for and receive benefits. You don't need a badge saying "I've done this before".

Often I would suggest studying for a new qualification to kick start a new stage of life - though it doesn't sound as if any family money would be made available for that.

But you do need an income - however small. That would give you the confidence to see your life and yourself with fresh eyes.

Because honestly, your children will all have flown, very soon. It is moonshine to say you're stuck in your marriage for the next thirty years.

This kills me to read.

You have spent your WHOLE adult life with this man, to whom you are just a receptacle for his penis, and mother to his kids with hobbies he hates and whose basic role is to serve his emotional needs (otherwise who knows what he might do).

You are 42. Younger than me. You MUST NOT spend the rest of your life like this. You have one life. ONE. Would you be ok writing this at 80?
Would you be ok never having felt the sunlight on your race from a balcony in a hotel where you've gone with your friends for a weekend?
When your kids leave home, a certainty, where are you existing then mentally?

He does not own you.
You are entitled to be happy.
But...you are responsible for that happiness at this point. If you accept this half life then it shall ever be so. And then that is on you.

I would suggest first off get a job volunteering if you can. It'll be a stepping stone and it will give you more confidence.
Then start making plans.
You are halfway through life. Now is not the time to give up.
I'm older than you and quit my shit marriage of many years because I don't want to waste any more of my precious years.

Op, it sounds like your self-worth is through the floor and the negative things you say about yourself - is that really your own voice, or is it his, (or maybe your parents')?

You're being abused.

With regard to getting a job, you could look at getting training or consider something like cleaning as a step into the workplace. How much childcare do children of those ages actually need, really (unless SN)?

As you're married, you're entitled to a share of all the marital assets. Get some legal advice about your options.

Speak to Women's Aid.

‘The worst he does is grope me when I’m sleeping. I have to lay really still because if he thinks I’m awake then he’ll just go in for it. He does sulk if I really fight him off but I understand he has needs, because men do.’
OP, this is not ok... we all have needs, the need for peace and respect. Sulking if you ‘really fight him off’ is coercion and punitive.. I’ve been there too, it’s horrible pressure... It sounds like your self esteem is really in need of some nurturing.. how about seeing a counsellor on your own?💐

You shouldn't have to fight off your spouse at all, this isn't normal in relationships, op.

It's him, not you.

What was life like for you as a child?. Your depression, anxiety and negative self image you show yourself likely started with them.

Sounds like he could be abusive.

I think you’re in denial about the negative impact on the DC.

Of staying this long.

Your story is heartbreaking. It sounds as if you think you are so worthless you deserve a revolting husband and miserable existence. This is wrong - nobody deserves that.

You say your children are happy - really? How can you be so sure? Does he put all his emotional energy and love into them, to make up for his failings in his self-appointed role as provider, and his failings as a husband? Do your children look at you two and think “I want a marriage like that when I grow up”? If they do, is that what you want for them?

Get yourself some counselling to clarify who you are in the world, see where that takes you.

We live somewhere where it’s not possible for my kids to get to or from school by theirselves. They are totally reliant on being picked up so it’s why my days are fairly limited. They are at 2 different schools at the moment. Next year will be a bit easier as my time during the day will be stretched between pickups. I started volunteering a while ago with the hope it might lead so something eventually, but I do worry that I’m just not that desirable to any employers.

I don’t think he’s a busier. He’s stubborn and brought up with very traditional views. It was fine when we were younger but as we’ve aged he’s got more extreme. I’m not on the mortgage or anything like that at all, it’s all in his name. I also have a lot of debt because at one point I had to take out loans & extend my OD by £1000s to help out the business. I do believe it’ll all eventually be repaid but it’s another reason I have to stay for the time being.

There are also other very complex financial involvements that I can’t go into detail with.

I really can’t afford counselling!

What I will say is, if you met me, you’d have absolutely no idea any of this was going on. I’ve always been a master of internalising how badly I feel about things. I think I probably come across as being really pretty confident on the surface. But I’m so not like that at all. I hate being me and I constantly battle anxiety and I just have absolutely no optimism in me for a happy bright future. There’s literally nothing for me to look forward to.

Debt in your name that it can be shown he has benefited from would be considered joint responsibility in financial settlements in a divorce.

Read about coercive control, op. I think it's likely he's financially abusing you on top of that.

If you left him, you could potentially live closer to their schools so they could walk home.

There are routes out of this. Nothing is set in stone. Your life could be different.

And assets in his name you have a claim on in a divorce.

You’re married, half the house is yours, half your debt is his. There is no “mine & yours” in marriage. You are likely in a much better position if you split up & get what is rightfully yours than you realise.

I like to think of “when I’m on my deathbed what will I think/regret/wonder what if”

And then work from there

OP over 90,000 U.K. couples divorced last year. They were all financially involved - by virtue of having been married. Probably most will have involved children - who usually remain with the parent who has been the main carer, either staying in the former family home or moving using a proportion of the proceeds from selling said family home. One of the purposes of marriage is to ensure you have these rights and protections if things go wrong.

Every difficulty you have raised is solvable - truly.