How much arguing is normal?

[FiremanSpam]

I don’t have much experience of healthy functional relationships (my own or parents) so I’m wondering, at the start of a relationship, how much arguing is to be expected? I have been seeing a new man (both late 30s) and most things are going well expect for relatively frequent arguments that escalate before I know what’s happening. Normally it’s a misunderstanding and in the end it gets sorted, but I’m worried it’s too much in what is supposed to be the honeymoon period. His communication gets louder than I’m used to and that is an extra worry really. If I try to use humour to diffuse a tense conversation it doesn’t work because he doesn’t seem to get anything jokey once he’s wound up. It’s starting to get me down a bit m, but I also know that relationships take time and patience. I can be anxious and indecisive sometimes, so it’s not like I’m the easiest person to deal with. I’m just feeling upset about it because I want a happy ever after and it never seems to work and out. That does sound a bit childish on my part.

You're right, you should be in the honeymoon phase and while the odd disagreement is fine (you're both finding out who the other is) frequent shouting is not. End this, and keep trying.

Frequent arguments early in a relationship can't be a good thing. This is probably not the right relationship for you.

That sounds like the start of my last relationship, it turned into a royal shitstorm.

You know it’s not right, you know you deserve better, that’s why you’re asking. Trust your own instincts.

most things are going well expect for relatively frequent arguments that escalate before I know what’s happening

Not healthy, not normal, and this relationship is headed for disaster. Get out now.

No arguments in the honeymoon period, and he definitely shouldn't be comfortable enough already to be raising his voice to you.

Disagreements, yes. It's perfectly normal to have a bicker now and again about random things. But arguments aren't normal at this stage. And arguments should be happening over serious things, not annoying little bits of life.

I would end it and move on. And I am the least frantic, dramatised MNetter there is, I am not one for saying LTB over trivial petty things. But this does not sound right at all. It will only get worse.

What are you arguing about?

Nothing really major. Misunderstandings, or what feels to me like trivial stuff but it quickly escalates. I think he has a very black and white outlook, being right or wrong is important to him. Being right becomes the priority. It could be insecurity or frustration that takes over. Now I’m thinking about it, he an be quite childish like storming out. I am sure he doesn’t mean it to upset me. It might just be different ways of dealing with conflict. Has does apologise, we both do. Happens again tho.

Thanks everyone for honest feedback. sigh

It doesn't sound right to me.

In fact, DH and I argued quite a lot in the early months together and we did significantly cut our alcohol consumption after 2 or 3 otherwise lovely evenings had descended into stupid drunken bickering. But I was never scared by the way he expressed himself when arguing (he didn't raise his voice to me (though we do both raise our voices sometimes now when we argue, but we're 20+ years in...)) and we both had a very strong sense that we were good together.

It's a bad sign that he is already raising his voice with you and causing you to feel uncomfortable. He doesn't sound right for you.

"It could be insecurity or frustration that takes over." But he's an adult, not a child, and he needs to regulate his emotions no matter how insecure or frustrated he feels. And he storms out as well as shouting. And has to be right.

He's trying to teach you that he will give you a very hard time if you disagree with him so it's better if you just agree with him the whole time. That's a big red flag.

Nope, this isn't right.

I think he has a very black and white outlook, being right or wrong is important to him. Being right becomes the priority. It could be insecurity or frustration that takes over. Now I’m thinking about it, he an be quite childish like storming out.

He's a narcissist. If he can't gaslight you, he stonewalls you by storming out so you'll shut up.

Run for the fucking hills.

Not good OP. Life is too short for this shit. You should be in the early happy stages of a relationship. I'd move on if I was you.

At the start? None.

In the longer term? Not many shouting level ones and no slanging matches, with hurtful words, or IMO it's hard to come back from.

However I recognise the realities of life have an effect during times of stress, so in long term relationships of course every couple with disagree on some stuff.

My previous most healthy relationship (ended just because it ran its course) we never shouted or said hurtful things in four years together.

I don't say hurtful things or things I don't mean during an argument, I dislike people doing so because I can't understand it so I think either they did mean it but it's been simmering away or they didn't mean it and wanted to hurt me on purpose - neither of which is healthy.

You're already having frequent arguments, early on, with escalation from petty squabbles to him shouting.

Honestly, can you really be arsed to waste time on him?

I have been with my dp for 5 ish years now and he has never behaved as you describe. Not even my quite difficult and unpleasant exh did.

He sounds like he has shit relationship and conflict resolution skills. Which will mean that he is more likely to start smacking you around tbh. It will just be a matter of time.

I think you know that you cant take on a partner who is a "fixer upper". Take them as they are or don't, but you won't change him. If you want a violent relationship, then stay in this one.

This is red flag behaviour.

Storming out during the honeymoon phase should result in a permanent out. You're actually not sensitive enough here, it sounds like you have put up with too much already. If it doesn't feel right in the honeymoon phase, it's never going to. Trust your instincts on this, you really should end it.

In over a decade we haven’t shouted once. We can disagree over something and talk about it calmly as we both know the other cares and neither of us feel any need to “win” an argument.
Shouting is intentionally intimidating; you do not have to accept it in your life/home.

Storming out? Just no. You know this isn't right, time to move on.

Just another voice to say please end and leave now. Don't ignore the red flags and waste your time. I wish someone would have told me this!

I would predict that this is likely to get really quite dangerous at some point unfortunately OP.
I have 3 long term exes. The first two, although we had our issues, wete otherwuse safe and reasonably healthy. Looking back, this was due to flowing and non hurtful communication styles as well as decent conflict resolution.
My third relationship however was a different story altogether and started similar to yours. The man was an utter nightmare. What initially seemed to be a brooding, handsome young man, was in fact a moody, controlling Narcissistic man child.
I had, up until that point never known a man to make so much noise about the smallest thing. I he wasn't having a go, he was quietly ripping me to shreds piece by piece. But the arguments were abysmal from the beginning. He would shout, strop, flounce about, slam doors, throw things. I'd never experience this before so was really quite scared but assumed it must be me.
I tried to leave him in the forst few months. I came home that day two a framed photo of us that was by the tv, with him cut out of it and placed back in the frame, which seriously rattled me.
My point is, he started our exactly like your man. It isn't worth it, trust me, these men are dangerous. I almost checked myself into a mental ward twice as I genuinely believed I was cracking up.
I put up with twelve years of it.
During arguments, I had dirty nappies thrown at my head, coke and lager poured over me, three phones and a laptop thrown and broken. Locked in my flat and keys thrown out of windows, pushed, shoved, punched, crotch grabbed, and much more.
I had several panic attacks while with him which I had never suffered with before and at one point was so stressed out I developed a twitch in my arm and neck.
The relationship was hell, from beginning to end. I was young when I met him and just assumed everybody is different; maybe he was just more sensitive, maybe he loved me more, maybe he was misunderstood, maybe I was lucky that he put up with me when clearly I'm an awful person. I must be if the man who loves me reacts to me this way. Nope. The man was a horrible, horrible human being, a bully and an abuser.
Get out OP, yours is headed the same way and it will not be pretty.

Massive red flag OP. He will get worse, not better. You’ll never be able to relax around him and will end up walking on eggshells to avoid making him angry.
Please leave now and spend some time reading up on healthy relationships and also unhealthy ones before you try and find a new partner.

Lots of misunderstandings from the outset make it sound to me like the two of you think totally differently. Do you find yourself frustrated that you can't get him to understand you, even though it seems obvious?
Life is much easier when you are simply on the same wavelength.

Yes exactly that. As soon as he feels criticised, which is never my intention, he changes massively. It’s made me feel upset a few times now. One minute we are having what fees lighthearted chat then suddenly I’ve said something that’s gone down badly and changes everything. The rest of the time he is very nice and kind, so it’s not all bad.

It’s never ever all bad.

I liked this comment:

I don't say hurtful things or things I don't mean during an argument, I dislike people doing so because I can't understand it so I think either they did mean it but it's been simmering away or they didn't mean it and wanted to hurt me on purpose - neither of which is healthy

How is he in the rest of his life - what is his behaviour like with colleagues, friends, family, random people in the street (waiters etc) is he a “high conflict” person (google that) in general or is he Mr Nice and just erupts at home?

He is abusive and is training you up to exert power and control. This is his method/process:

1. He is hyper vigilant to engineer a fight. He nags, pesters or picks at any random thing to goad and provoke an emotional reaction.

1. Once he has you in this state - he turns up the heat to punish you further by escalating the argument.

1. He employs two extreme emotionally and polar opposite controlling behaviours to confuse, terrorise and control you. Shouting and raging is attacking and in your face to incite fear. Then storming off and shutting down is abandoning and blaming you.

1. The aim (especially this early in the RS) is to establish his dominance and subjugate you. He needs you afraid to speak out in case he shouts and leaves. The escalation and shouting is threatening. He needs you walking on eggshells so that you are controlled 24/7 adapting your behaviours, disconnecting your feelings so as not to annoy him because you are terrified of an eruption at any point.

Good for you for questioning this. Don’t try to fix him. Fix yourself a bit more by building on your good effort to reach out on here by closing down this RS.

Have you any ties with him? What would it require to disentangle yourself? He sounds v nasty and emotionally volatile and may likely want to punish you for leaving - so make sure you put in any safety precautions.