DH is one of the 'good guys', so why am I so unhappy (and can it be salvaged)?

[shadowdiver]

Have name changed for this. Sorry this is so long...

DH and I have been together 20 years, married for 17, have 2 DC (7 & 5). DH is a lovely man. The opposite of a man child. He's kind, non confrontational, doesn't drink much, no offensive hobbies.

But I'm increasingly unhappy. We have been in a technically sexless marriage for many, many years. I came to accept this, but at the beginning I think I felt very rejected physically and it knocked my confidence sexually. I have basically stopped seeing myself as a sexual being. DH doesn't seem to have any sex drive (there's definitely no porn issues or infidelity or anything like that). We're both fit and healthy - so no physical issues.

But along with my physical needs not being recognised or respected, I've very recently realised DH is unable to meet any emotional needs. There have been several very significant times I've really been let down by him emotionally. He's not an unemotional person himself (he can and does cry and is open about his own feelings). But, gradually, over the years, I think I've come to subconsciously realise I'm not allowed to have either physical or emotional needs of my own. I think it's made me resentful and prone, at times, to be be critical of him. Increasingly we bicker over the little stuff. We don't seem to have any fun anymore.

So, we rub along. We have done for years. Every now and then though it all bubbles up and I have an 'I can't take this anymore'. We have a frank conversation about how I don't want this to be my/our life until we die. I suggest marriage therapy and/or that he has some therapy. He concurs. Then he doesn't do anything about it. This all came to a head again a few weeks ago. We once again agreed therapy would help us. Once again he's done nothing. And I'm feeling increasingly sad and despondent and I also feel like I'm losing all respect for him because he won't take the initiative to do anything about us or him. I fear I can see my marriage slipping through the cracks of my fingers before my eyes. But I don't want to leave him. He would be completely devastated. And I can't do it to the kids. Both DH and I come from 'broken homes' (that's probably part of the problem, neither of us has a model for a 'happy marriage') and we swore we'd never do that to our children.

I'm at a loss. Do I continue to suck up my own happiness, emotional and sexual fulfilment and accept that he and this is my lot? Looking back over the years, there's so much we've let slip or done wrong. Not addressing the sex issue earlier on being a major one. But also not making time for us as a couple when we had DC. Does anyone have any stories of rescuing a marriage like mine? Or is it beyond repair?

Not beyond repair, nothing ever is. But you definitely need to be able to communicate properly, which sounds like you can't. If you don't manage to communicate, yes, it will be beyond repair.

One thing that irked me. Is you said you agreed to therapy, but he did nothing. Why didn't you arrange it?

Otherwise. The only question I've got. Is he any fun? And I mean proper fun.

Sorry I can’t help you OP as I’m in the same damn position. DH agrees with certain things I say need to change (but then does nothing to change them) but basically he thinks our relationship is fine. I don’t. Following to see what the advice is.

I honestly don't think he sounds like one of the good ones. He doesn't give you any emotional or sexual validation at all! To me those are two things that you look for in your romantic partnership above all other relationships, yes we can have family and friends but those should be in addition to the support we get in out primary relationship.

The only way for you to move forward in this relationship is to force the issue with counselling. And you have to just bite the bullet and sort that out yourself. Just arrange it as soon as possible. Start looking up marriage therapists and ask about reduced fees for an introductory session. Only go with a counsellor you both feel comfortable with.

If your husband stalls, or doesn't want to continue with the counselling or puts up roadblocks then you have your answer . It's this marriage that you are living in that you can continue with or nothing. Then you can decide more clearly.

Sorry to hear that you're going through this, OP.

It sounds like you have plenty of reason to be unhappy and frankly he doesn't sound lovely. He sounds okayish but apparently quite willing to deprive you of sexual and emotional intimacy which is a bad characteristic in a romantic partner.

You can't fix this alone and I certainly don't think you should just suck it up. Remember - life is not a dress rehearsal; we only have this one shot.

And please don't use the term 'broken home' or allow that kind of thinking to dictate your choices now. Someone else used it repeatedly on another thread and it's such a derogatory expression. I have a number of friends who have separated from their spouses and are very successfully co-parenting their shared children. It's much better for children to be raised by two functioning parents living apart than in a home where one or both of their parents is deeply unhappy and/or where there is bad feeling between the parents.

Have you looked into attachment theory in relationships? He sounds v dismissive / avoidant - so the more you chase the deeper into his shell he retreats. However it doesn’t mean he is numb - he is likely v v stressed and preoccupied internally. Emotions terrify him - so he has withdrawn from emotional and physical intimacy.

But this doesn’t help you. This can be fixed - he needs to address the issues in his childhood with one on one therapy. That’s the end game but couples therapy for a few months is an easier route in if he is avoiding.

However if he can’t or won’t engage then you need to think v seriously about your own emotional health - because this will erode you - this is no way to live.

Give him a clear direction, timescale and consequence. Be v clear that you will be acting on that consequence. Actions not words. I would also take responsibility to set up the couples therapy but watch and wait for him to sort his individual therapy.

Thanks for all the lovely, thoughtful responses...

In response to a couple of questions.
Is he any fun? Not really, anymore. He used to be really funny and used to really make me laugh. But I can't remember the last time that happened! But, to be fair, he's been, essentially, a SAHD to DC2 for the past two years and I think that's probably sapped a lot of the 'fun' out of life. But he's becoming increasingly 'fixed mindset' about stuff (and people) and unable to break out of routines and the familiar. There are some anxiety issues there for him that, again, are longstanding and unresolved.

Why was I waiting for him to arrange the therapy? Because I'm always the one who motivates and pushes for any 'big' things in our life - from moving house to holidays, etc etc. While DH is amazing at taking care of the day-to-day stuff, he very passive in other ways. I'm the driving force of any big change in our lives. And that's part of the problem. Me arranging therapy felt like one more thing I was sorting out for us/him to make our lives better. When I had one of my 'I can't do this anymore' moments a few years ago I went so far to research some good local therapists and sent him the information. But he never booked an appointment or contacted them. But, that being said, after my post last night I did get in touch with a local therapist and I'm waiting to hear back from them.

Re. whether or not he's one of the 'good ones'. Gah. I think so. He is considerate to a fault, always puts my and the DC's practical needs ahead of his own. He gave up work to look after the DC (albeit a career that was languishing and he was completely undriven in and unenthusiastic about). He's incredibly generous with money. He is not emotionally unavailable - he's in touch with his own emotions and recognises my emotions. But in the past 6 or 7 years when I've had the occasional 'big' emotional moments (e.g.a minor breakdown when DC2 was about 6 months old) DH has not been there for me (in that situation, he told me that I should talk to my mum or sister and then it never really got talked about again).

But I'm no saint. I probably could have done/ could do more to boost his self-esteem and self-confidence, perhaps? (Although I've always been really supportive of his career decisions, etc, and tell him I believe in him, etc.). So I know I'm culpable too re. the situation our relationship is in. But I can't fix it on my own and he's always just seemed happy to rub along and seems to have no desire to do actually fucking do anything to make things better.

Book counselling for yourself. For just you. Tell him it’s his job to book couples, if he wants you to have a chance to sort things out, or book it for yourself if you want to......even if you split it will help do it amicably

When you had the most recent conversation, did you tell him what the consequences would be if things didn't change?

You've said that you feel you can't leave. If he's aware of this then he has no incentive at all to do anything or change his behaviour, because he knows that you will stay anyway.

Do you want to spend the next 30-odd years like this? If the answer is no then you need to be prepared to leave him and file for divorce - and he needs to understand that this is the consequence if he continues to passively carry on as he is.

You’ve not had a sexual relationship for many years. He repeatedly agrees that your relationship would benefit from therapy but does nothing about it. He behaves as though you should have no physical or emotional needs. And you bicker.

There is pretty much nothing to save here. You can’t restore your marriage on your own and your husband won’t do anything to help. If you think a ‘broken’ home is bad for children, wait til you hear what living with parents who have no physical or emotional relationship does for their view of a healthy life.

Divorce doesn’t have to be acrimonious. I agree with a PP - go to counselling, alone. Don’t waste another 20 years like this.

OP - what you are describing is a typical marriage rut. It happens very very often.
And also - you do realise that your H is a man with generally not much drive - either sexual or otherwise. He may also be somewhat depressed.
So - it’s unrealistic to expect him to act on your idea of counselling. If you want to work on the marriage - you’ll need to nudge it along and not have unrealistic expectations here. You are married to a follower, not a leader. And you can’t save this unless you accept it.
Good luck with the counselling. I do think once you start - he’ll fall in line as it’s his nature.

Sex thing is unlikely to change as counselling won’t make him have a sex drive. If you want to have a physical relationship - you’ll have to do it outside of marriage.

That’s very astute @MMmomDD. He’s definitely mildly depressed. He had a lot of awful big ‘life’ stuff happen between DC1 & 2 (bereavement) and that’s not helped his sense of self. But you pinpointed it exactly when you said he has no drive. Problem is that I’m incredibly driven and always have been. It wasn’t always so imbalanced. He had more drive when we met but slowly I’ve lead and he’s followed more. And I guess for a long time the balance worked - he put my practical needs first and allowed me to pursue my career and interests while he took care of the boring stuff (a lightbulb is changed the minute is goes in our house, for eg). Problem is, I don’t care about the lightbulbs or the grass not being cut. I want a partner, an equal.

I have wondered about an ‘open marriage’. But I think it would be very one-sided and the complete lack of sex over the past 15 years means I no longer feel sexual in any way (although I do feel attractive - I’m
slim and feel happy in my own body) so I can’t imagine getting it on with anyone.

Honestly , your last post makes me feel a bit sorry for your husband. Being driven/ not being driven... These aren't character flaws per se, they are just who we are. And when you are tripping over yourself in the dark, changing the lightbulb will matter. You don't value who he is and what he adds, you have minimised it.

Given what you said in the update - in your place OP, I’d have a bit of counselling on my own. Focusing more around acceptance of what you have and how your feel about your life in general.
I think changing your H, lifting him out if his rut is a monumental task and can only be done if he wanted it himself.
To put is simply - you can’t change him. But you can change/influence your reaction to how things are in your life.
I think many women in a certain phase of their life/marriage feel dissatisfied. Sort of at a mid-life point, when kids aren’t babies anymore and don’t need us as much. When H has become familiar and routines sat in. It feels like - is this really it? Is there nothing else out there for me - just this daily grind, get old and then die....
I have seen many women in their 40s feeling that way.

So - as I said - if I were you I’d take stock at what you have. A home, happy kids, H that while not that driven, but willing to provide/maintain a stable domestic situation, and who you don’t need to worry about looking the other way. Which leaves you to live your life the way you want. Have your career, have friends and hobbies, etc.
Also - realise on the flip side - if he was highly driven - you might not not able to have the career you want, etc.
So - in a way - you can try to focus on counting your blessings, and figuring out what makes you happy and going for it.

Whether or not you’ll one day want to have sex (with him or someone else) doesn’t need to be decided now or forced. If you are happy to be how you are - why not.

But I’m not happy @MMmomDD that’s the problem. And neither is DH I don’t think.

I feel sorry for him too @Lochie662! As I said, I’m culpable too. But at least I’m motivated to do something about it.

It sounds a lot like my relationship was in many ways. Eventually my husband left and I was gutted but 2 years down the line we’re both happier and get on and co-parent our son really well. It’s soul sapping living with someone you don’t love anymore even if they’re an amazing kind lovely person. It sounds to me like there are a huge amount of hurdles to overcome for you to be happy - do you realistically this can be done? Or you even want it anymore?

In the nicest possible way, your home is "broken" OP. You're modelling a broken, resentful relationship to your kids.

It's better for kids to have parents who live apart but are happy than "stay together for the kids" while clearly resenting one another.

Don't be ashamed to end things with your DH if that's what you want - and it sounds like it is tbh, but some counselling (individual or marriage) would probably help you make that decision.

Have you told your H that you want the marriage to end if things don't change?

OP I'm reading with interest, in a very similar situation. My DH is also a good guy in many many respects. He's generous and practically motivated to sort things out for me and the DC. He's gone through a decade of underemployment with big consequences for our finances and family life - I've taken on all the breadwinning and prior to lockdown would go days without seeing the DC around long hours, making me and them very unhappy - but he also drove me mad by being unfulfilled at home, unwilling to retrain in a better career despite my offering to support, and unable to improve his situation. He's very apathetic about big stuff and we've had a very similar pattern of agreeing at approx 18 month intervals that counselling would be a good investment, which then never happens because, similarly to you, I would like him to arrange it as a signal of intent and he would rather eat his own liver than talk to anyone about feelings. We went through IVF and other hurdles on the way to having the DC and he would literally change the subject or walk out of the room to avoid talking to me about it sometimes. Like you, I do see the positives but just want an equal partner to embark on life's adventures with. We've had no sex for 3 years as our intimacy has corroded- that was a consequence of not arranging therapy but he'd rather live without sex than take the lid off the box. In our case, I think his parent's model is a factor: FIL is deeply passive and MIL is demanding and emotionally insensitive. I suspect DH is programmed to fulfil someone else's script and doesn't know how to even identify his own hopes and wants, never mind champion them.

The best advice I’ve found, which may or may not help you, is this: no-one else is responsible for your happiness, and no-one else has to follow your script. So just appreciate your DH for what he gives you, and love him for who he is rather than who you'd like him to be. And make your choices according to what you need in your life, which can ge anything from more time with friends, more fulfilling activities, home decisions, to having therapy if you want it. etc. You can do all this with goodwill whether you separate or not, but its such a relief to let go of the resentment millstone. My life has improved since I've just accepted DH, and asked myself what I'd do if I were single, and then just done it - then his being there is a bonus and I'm not being pissed off because he's not fulfilling my version of coupledom.

I ended a sexless marriage to one of the good guys.Im remarried now in a healthy marriage to another decent man.It can be done.Dont settle.

OP - the poster above OneMoreForExtra put it better than me, I think.
No one else is responsible for your happiness. It may or may not be related to your H having more drive.
This is why I think you need to start with yourself and figuring out what you want/need/etc.
Simply divorcing won’t make you happy over night.

You say he’s not emotionally unavailable but also that he’s not been there during big emotional moments and he’s shown zero interest in booking therapy so how does that all add up? Also you have a complete lack of intimacy.

Doesn’t sound very emotionally available to me.

@MaeDanvers yes perhaps I’m deluding myself. A lot of it is him saying the wrong stuff if I do lean on him emotionally. After many years he eventually stopped the classic ‘try to solve it’ response. But now he’ll either ask irrelevant or unanswerable questions or make it about him. Eg a while ago I was fed up about a rather complex situation with a friend. His response was ‘why do you think they’re doing that?’ I don’t fucking know - that’s why I’m upset! Then he went on to talk about a situation with him and his friends. Just makes me feel like I can’t talk to him about anything. If I’m having a down day about work he’ll start berating my employer or latch on to one aspect of the situation that isn’t very relevant and it becomes a frustrating conversation that just exacerbates my frustration about work. So I agree with whichever pp who said we have a communication problem. I’ve said exactly that to him many times.

@OneMoreForExtra yes I agree wholehearted about him not being responsible for my happiness and I don’t expect or want that. I’m pretty self-sufficient and generally need very little emotional support. However, it would be nice to feel that I can lean on him when I need to. I mean, isn’t that part of the point of being in a long-term relationship? Otherwise we’re just flat mates (which is pretty much what we are these days). It does sound like we’re in similar situations. DH is similarly programmed to fulfil other’s needs. He is desperate to please and help others. It was endearing at the beginning. Now it feels suffocating. I do have lots of interests outside the home/marriage. I don’t have a lot of time for them though (I work FT, have a horribly long commute - although obviously not at the moment, evenings I’m usually too knackered to do very much and I don’t want to go off of a weekend to do my own thing as I don’t spend enough time with the DC as it is and it wouldn’t be fair on DH).

@beautifulxdisasters and @Tappering I’m not at the point of threatening divorce yet. That feels quite manipulative/ mean. We need to meaningfully explore therapy first. I’ve found a therapist but she can’t see us until September. So I have to try to keep going until then. We have a holiday and various other things between now and then which may help. Or may make it all worse... DH is increasingly unhappy to go ‘outside his comfort zone’, which means holidays can sometimes end up being not fun (him unable to relax or get into the swing of things).

@shadowdiver

Look I mean this kindly, but you are all over the place, he's either giving you appropriate emotional support or he isn't and you keep changing this viewpoint. When he responded with the problem with your friend" why do you think she's doing that?" , it doesn't sound like an inappropriate comment. Your response sounds OTT....but I'm not there , I don't know what's happening, but I have absolutely no idea what your problem is, because I don't think you do.

Also a lot of men like to try and solve the problem, it's not uncommon.

You are coming across as hypercritical and it's getting to the stage where everything he does is wrong. This is the basis for an extremely unhappy home. September isn't that far but I would use the time between now and then deciding what battles are worth keeping fighting, and what ones you can let go.

Yup I am a bit all over the place @Lochie662. Btw - the response to his response about my friend was in my head - I didn’t say it out loud! But I probably am hyper critical. I’m at the stage that the sound of him eating and drinking is grating (not that I’d say anything to him about that). So I know that I need to check myself and get a handle on my feelings to avoid getting to a point of no return. I expect I can do that - after all, I have many times before. And being able to talk to you lot on here has been so helpful. So thanks all for listening/reading and for your kind, honest responses.

@Lochie662 is right. I'm not suggesting that you threaten divorce as a manipulation tactic. But if you feel that you cannot carry on with things as they are, but haven't made it clear to him that you are nearing make or break, then it can't be a surprise that someone passive doesn't invest by proactivly arranging therapy.

If you tell him that you're unhappy and that things must change, and he does nothing and still you stay in the relationship, then he can almost be forgiven for thinking that he doesn't need to do anything, because the relationship isn't on the line. You can't expect him to suddenly start to take things seriously, unless you have an honest conversation about the likely outcome of your marriage if he doesn't get involved.