If a man isn't just a ****

[HGKPG]

Seriously...if a man isn't just being seen as a knob.. And genuinely has something underlying or wrong with them how many of you see this and how many of you would just move on?
I'm genuinely interested as see so many posts saying 'he's not into you' he's selfish'.. But 'if' there is a reason, how many of you would try and help?
I'm pretty sure my ex has a dissmisive attatchment and I feel the need to support and help him rather than think he's the negative and walk away from what is a majority great relationship.. As quite frankly how many are perfect?!
I've chatted to many friends about this and it's hit most of them thinking and changing their perceptions on not only relationship problms but themsleves too.

I'm confused that you feel he has this trait but your answers say he wasn't like that at all and it was circumstances that made you split. I'm not sure what you're actually asking? Obviously the boards are full of complaints as that's what they are for. No one posts just to say how their dp pulls their weight around the house or is an equal parent, a great partner etc like many men do/are
.

Why are you so invested in helping him? He’s an ex.

Does he actually want your help?

@HGKPG

Seriously...if a man isn't just being seen as a knob.. And genuinely has something underlying or wrong with them how many of you see this and how many of you would just move on? I'm genuinely interested as see so many posts saying 'he's not into you' he's selfish'.. But 'if' there is a reason, how many of you would try and help? I'm pretty sure my ex has a dissmisive attatchment and I feel the need to support and help him rather than think he's the negative and walk away from what is a majority great relationship.. As quite frankly how many are perfect?! I've chatted to many friends about this and it's hit most of them thinking and changing their perceptions on not only relationship problms but themsleves too.

Every man who is a knob - every person for that matter - will have a reason for being so. Many abusive people were abused in turn.

But that doesn't mean you need to, or that you should, take responsibility for their healing in an attempt to rescue them.

That's the epitome of codependency.

Aaahhhh just lost a long reply.

Without outing myself I know he has this and has suffered with things.. It hasn't affected me as his partner but I can see how it could of I wanted certain things.

Example.
He wants a baby. We discuss.. So do I..end of.. Youll never get that baby.. Because a baby brings a band, stress, long term commitment.. He will get pushed out/hurt in the long run due to it etc..
You'll broach/push for some movement and nothing..

Sane applies for any large relationship goal.. Moving.. Marriage..

Also just to reiterate.. He was NEVER awful to me. Always put me first and as I said I couldn't fault. That's not the reason we split.
I do know if I wanted the above things I'd be wasting my time though.

I also know I have flaws and he helped and supported me

@HGKPG Having a 'whatsit attachment style' can only be worked on if it genuinely comes from the person themselves.

Like, he could be looking into what makes him act in a certain way, google and decide he has a 'whatsit attachment style' and then work on it.

Until the person does that, there's no improving it.

You might think he has this thing. Unless/until he does and makes it one of his projects in life to fix it, it won't really change.

Even if you send him info about it, it probably won't stick and he won't majorly work on it.

This sort of thing is something a person has and they don't change unless they make it a major priority.

If you were to be with him and whenever he's crap, say to yourself 'ah the poor thing he has that terrible "whatsit attachment style" that ruins his life,' you'll just be sitting there letting his bollox happen to you.

People have flaws yes, men and women. Which can make you incompatible as a couple. You are describing how incompatible you were

‘He’s not that into your move on’ is more direct and easier to understand and gives women their self worth back rather than psycho analysing someone in depth only to come to the same conclusion - YOU DONT WORK AS A COUPLE for x y z reasons

also agree that it’s not a woman’s job to fix a man or put up with his emotional commitment issues, wasting her child bearing years doing so

Soulof completely agree with you.
I'm aware of what it entails for me hence us not being together. It doesn't mean I haven't got a good heart and can feel sorry for him.
I understand he needs to understand and work on parts and I know he was aware of things now I look back, I just didn't realise it could be so complex.
One of my friends is dating a guy who is like this.. He's extreme though. My friend gets 'nothing' and we all think she's crazy putting up with him.. Each to their own though.

Seriously...if a man isn't just being seen as a knob.. And genuinely has something underlying or wrong with them how many of you see this and how many of you would just move on?

I think you need to define 'move on'. There are a whole lot of people (men and women) out there that would make shit partners, but can be great friends. They make shit partners for various reasons but those reasons don't always have to affect friendships in the same way, eg the not having children.

So if you mean stop being a partner, but maintain a friendship of sorts, then that can be an option for some people. But it can be hard to move from relationship to friendship because of the hurt that goes along with the relationship breaking down.

But if someone continues to enter into relationships without the self awareness that their problems can hurt their partner, then that's not really someone I would want to be friends with.

You are spending a fair bit of time saying the square root of fuck-all, op

Turn yourself inside out trying to "understand" these poor men if you wish but leave the rest of us out of it

How do you help these people? Seriously...I’m not a qualified counsellor or therapist. I’m not a doctor or a psychologist. I’m not a martyr or a facility that exists to provide aid to lost souls. I am an ordinary woman with needs and desires of my own and other obligations to fulfil.

It’s not my job to stick around to ‘help’ someone who isn’t helping themselves. If that person is making my life harder rather than better, why am I expected to sacrifice my wellbeing to help them?

No love - fuck that. There is no obligation...there isn’t even an expectation.
You do what you like of course..but don’t put it to me that I should be doing the same.
One life and it’s mine to live.

What ClaryFairchild said. There are loads of men that I could be a supportive friend to but would make a terrible partner (in some cases just for me others in general sadly). I get that this isn't an easy thing for those undesirable men to accept but unless they are self motivated to really improve themselves it is what it is.

This is all about you.

If both of you wanted to be together you would be. You aren’t together because at least one of you wanted more and at least one of you was not prepared to compromise for it. It’s just another example of “just not into you”.

However you are not able to accept that. Sounds to me like you are clinging to a reason to be involved with him, fix him and then have the relationship. Stalkers think that way.

You didn’t realise relationships and compatibility could be so complex?

There may be a reason for it, but you can't excuse poor behaviour.

Mine has depression, he uses that as an excuse for his alcoholism, drug addiction and associated poor behaviour. I couldn't 'help' him no matter how much I tried. In the end I just had to accept that is who he is now, and the man he used to be has gone.

He's your ex for a reason OP, remember why and move on for your own good.

Fuck that. Fuck these poor men who have "something wrong with them".
What the fuck??
I've spent too much time trying to be the "rescuer" and "saviour" in relationships. I recognize that in myself now - that this is a problem. That's why I've been treated like shit. When I haven't been able to "heal" the man in question they've turned on me and blamed me for everything. They made me responsible for my happiness but I also made myself feel responsible for their happiness.
I am absolutely not putting up with that shit ever again. If they've got something wrong with them then they can get medical help with that if they are interested in finding a solution to their problems.
I was with one guy who claimed to be depressed.Funny how he was always depressed when there were household chores to do or he had to actually go out and look for a job. He never once sought help for his "depression". (Disclaimer: I am not knocking people who really do have depression - people who recognize this is a problem and get help for this).
Then I was with a guy with alcohol problems, issues with his family, use of sex-workers. He really was a mess. I thought I could heal him. More fool me. He treated me like shit but would intersperse this with guff about me being the only person who understood him and he was so happy when he was with me and yes, he would speak to the GP about his issues and go to therapy to deal with the issues from his childhood. Did he do that? Did he fuck!!! Now he's onto the next woman who is supposed to play the part of his mother/saviour.

So, sorry, but I've had enough of this and as I said I'd never put up with anything like this ever again. Dismissive attachment my arse. The absolute vast majority of these knobs do not have some genuine underlying issue. They are simply knobs. If they do have something genuine they should be getting help for this and getting a proper diagnosis not just coming up with some shit to get sympathy.

Nope. I have some serious mental health issues and an anxious attachment issue and it’s nobody’s responsibility to help me except mine. It doesn’t matter the reason for how he behaves, if it has a detrimental effect on you, you shouldn’t put up with it. By all means stay distantly friendly if you like but don’t make excuses for him. I have an ex who is prone to codependency and anxious-avoidant attachment who really fucked me around, I understand why he’s like he is but it doesn’t excuse it. He knows what he has to do and I made it clear to him that if he didn’t help himself I was cutting him off (which I have now done).

PS, to the poster who dismissed attachment disorders, they are very real manifestations of early/childhood socialisation and are very real

The only people I want to coach through life are those I gave birth to.

OP women tend to learn from hard won experience that you can't make someone change and you can't fix someone. 'He'd be perfect if only he (listened, didn't treat me like a servant, wasn't a drug user, didn't emotionally abuse me, worked, wasn't avoidant...)

After a while you start to see red flags and one of them is the need to fix someone. People have flaws and that's fine, no one is perfect but the basics need to be there for the relationship to work. After a while you'll see a pattern in the people you have in your life and that is all about you, not them.

It's better to be alone than on a hamster wheel.

PS, to the poster who dismissed attachment disorders, they are very real manifestations of early/childhood socialisation and are very real

@dodgeballchamp They might be for some people. I have a mental health disability and probably from what I've picked up from here an anxious attachment style. I've worked on it a bit, - although I wouldn'tve called it that, I was talking about the same thing probably.

But a lot of people talking about 'attachment styles' are just trying to make themselves feel better about a bloke not wanting to commit/not being into them/treating them badly. They've only read something on the internet that makes them feel better about being dumped or disrespected, or gives them help that a crap relationship might turn into 'happily ever after' if the bloke were only to fix what's supposedly wrong with them. It's not even usually self-diagnosis in this situation, it's someone diagnosing someone else to try and explain their behaviour in a way that makes them feel better.

Instead of getting in an intellectual maze about attachment styles, they need to just accept the bloke won't commit, or he's nasty/abusive etc.

*gives them hope

OP, what are you avoiding looking at in yourself by focusing on someone else and their problems?

Thanks for the replies
Obviously everyone's got their own experiences, opinions and views. I didn't post to try and 'change' anyone's views nor do I think I can 'change' my ex. I am interested in it all though and why yes like someone said basically how 2 people are so compatible but not at the same time.
I truly believe attachment is a real thing.. Its right when I work out my own. Things I need to work on. I'll go into another relationship aware of what my flaws are that's for sure

It's always a mistake to think you can do the emotional labour for both people.

I know the social expectation is that women do the emotional labour for both herself and her partner, but that's why so many relationships fail. Cos the bloke just sits there static while the woman wears herself out and tears herself apart trying to "make it work". Like a big old rock, he can then go on to the next woman, and act just the same.

Berties.. Nothing!
I ended things not the other way around.
I know my flaws and am not afraid to address and work on them.

@TigerDater

Spot on !! I can relate to everything you mentioned in your post. The ex in my case also suffered emotional neglect as a child, and despite initial lovebombing & being charming sometimes, he had a real cruel streak. For some men, love is not enough, they need a therapist, as they will not see another's point of view.
I hope your life is much happier now, thankyou for sharing.