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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sibling loan causing family difficulties...

101 replies

kemos · 23/07/2020 05:20

I was wondering if I could ask for advice here. I have quite a few step/half/siblings and I get on with all of them quite well, but they don't get on with each other...

About ten years ago we were all much closer, we knew if we got into difficulty and needed a short term loan, my eldest sibling (S) was happy to help most of us out with the money, and we always paid S back in short order, over the years S helped out me, my parents and many of my other siblings in this manner.

Unfortunately it came to a situation whereas one of my other siblings (A) got into difficulty and used a pawn shop to set aside jewellery and borrow money. The pawn shop called in the debt and A didn't have the funds to cover it. Other siblings (not me) convinced A to approach S for a loan. Knowing that A was unreliable with money, S demurred, until A offered the much higher value of the jewellery as security until the loan was repaid.

Because S was not at the time living in the same part of the UK as A and the pawnshop, S transferred the money (a shade over £2,000) to A's account and asked my mother to hold the jewellery until they could get it. The debt was repaid and the jewellery returned to A.

Two months later, S came home for a visit and asked my mother for A's jewellery. Somehow A had not turned it over, and many excuses followed, ending with 'I had to give it to my partner, because I owe her money'. Probably tired of being hassled for the money, A announced he was moving out of the room at my mother's, and in with friends. Arguments followed, with S accusing A of engineering an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude to the debt. A responding that such an accusation was a terrible stain on their character. A week after they moved out, S searched through A's left behind possessions and discovered pawnshop paperwork for part of the jewellery dated six days after he had forwarded the money, meaning he had pawned at least some of it again.

Unfortunately, not a penny was repaid and the debt still exists, ten years later and has driven a wedge between my family. It may be just a debt between A and S, but it has created such an enormous elephant in the room whenever family gatherings are arranged.

S accepts that the debt will never be repaid, but now outright refuses to see/speak/be in the same place at the same time as A, and boycotts all family events that A attends, so if A comes for Christmas, S will make excuses, but we know the real reason...

Most of the family take the position that it's either ten years worth of water under the bridge or simply a matter between A and S, but perhaps justifiably, S takes the view that we should call A out and apply pressure to resolve this as we still talk to him...

I'm not sure what can be done after so much time, perhaps I'm venting, perhaps I'm hopeful this can be resolved.

OP posts:
Sakurami · 23/07/2020 10:33

You all sound like leeches and I suspect S is feeling used by you all. If A is a loser and wont Honour the loan, then the family who encouraged it should club together to repay S. Rich of you all to say it's been 10 years yet none of you have had the decency to do something about repaying the loan. I think it is probably the principle more than the money.

IJustWantSomeBees · 23/07/2020 10:33

Also it’s not the sibling loan that is causing your family difficulties, it’s your family being absolute dicks

Batfinklestein · 23/07/2020 10:35

@EnjoyingTheSilence that confused me a bit on first reading too. It meant the debt to the pawnbrokers was paid, by S's loan, and the jewellery was returned to A by the pawnbrokers.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of previous posters. A has behaved appallingly. If I were S I would be very hurt that my family had put pressure on me to loan A the money, but now it's not been paid back they are sweeping it under the carpet.
They should be encouraging A to put a payment plan in place to pay it back, even if it is only at £5 a week or something!

VettiyaIruken · 23/07/2020 11:19

Easy to call it water under the bridge when it's not you out a couple of thousand and crapped on from a great height.

Any decent person would be supporting S and making it clear to A that they did a really shitty thing and you think less of them for it.

VettiyaIruken · 23/07/2020 11:21

And yes, agree with pp. S has been the family bank for years, even pressured into bailing A out and this is the thanks they get.
They are a better person than me because I'd be saying fuck the lot of you.

Scoobydoobywho · 23/07/2020 11:22

I do hope that the family that aren't supporting S haven't had the audacity to ask them for a loan.

LadyEloise · 23/07/2020 11:35

Poor S.
Thief A.
No support from siblings. Sad
What kind of people take the side of a conniving thief ????

VettiyaIruken · 23/07/2020 11:39

@LadyEloise

Poor S. Thief A. No support from siblings. Sad What kind of people take the side of a conniving thief ????
Quite! And actively aid them in the theft by pretending they had followed S's request to hold the jewellery.

Poor S must feel so let down and hurt.

alfrew · 23/07/2020 11:46

Sounds like A is the golden child, gets babied and excused a lot.

My0My · 23/07/2020 11:49

It is a cautionary tale isn't it? Do not lend family money. In fact do not lend anyone money. It always leads to problems in families and spoils friendships. Anyone having to pawn a relative's jewellery has a financial problem so its yet another issue to compound the financial mess. This is an awful situation to be in and I would not engage with the family who were not supportive in getting the money back for S.

We are all inclined to support our own children financially but I would not lend to siblings. They have had life chances similar to my own. They have to be self reliant and not ask. I would be too embarrassed to ask and I would not volunteer to give a loan either; to anyone really. I would give, unconditionally, to my children.

IsMiseMorag · 23/07/2020 12:00

Has something brought this to a head that you're asking now, after ten years?

Mulhollandmagoo · 23/07/2020 12:13

I think S has every right to feel the way they do, I wouldn't be coming around for cosy Christmas parties either!!!!

Your post reads as if you're all annoyed at S for not letting this go, and that is so disrespectful given that you were all happy to use them as a cash point, yet as soon as A betrays that trust, none of you are prepared to stand up for S. I know you wont comment on this thread again as I get the impression we haven't told you what you want to hear, but in the event you're reading the replies - you need to show some respect to S and tell A to do the right thing and start paying back the money, and hope the damage can be repaired!

Alloverthegrapevine · 23/07/2020 12:21

I'd like to know more about how this strange family dynamic has come about but I dont think OP is coming back.

ekidmxcl · 23/07/2020 12:30

I like the suggestion that a PP came up with. All of the siblings/relatives who think that A’s behaviour is OK should club together and pay off the £2k to S. Then A’s loan is no longer with S, it’s with several family members. These family members can then decide whether It’s OK for A’s loan of a few hundred with them to be written off.

S has been abused.

DBML · 23/07/2020 12:40

If I were S, I would feel deceived by the lot of you and would have taken myself and my money a long way away.

None of you would have extracted another penny from me and I would hold you all responsible.

Your family has taken advantage of one sibling and used them. Yet they are the one pushed out now, after all the help they’ve given you.

Frankly, I’m disgusted that you now state this is between S and A. You all hold some responsibility for what has happened.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 23/07/2020 12:44

@IsMiseMorag

Has something brought this to a head that you're asking now, after ten years?
^^This.

Poor S, no good deed goes unpunished, what an awful way to discover this.

kemos · 23/07/2020 13:01

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

You're S, right? (otherwise I can't figure how you know so much the ins and outs unless your mum is an horrific oversharer, in which case you have bigger issues)

What effort has been made on both sides to resolve this? Is A aware that his mum lied to S? Have A and S communicated directly, or is it all through a 3rd party who may be twisting things (I speak from bitter experience)?

No, I'm not. But it is well known because we all used to live together and I was witness to much of what happened...
OP posts:
VettiyaIruken · 23/07/2020 14:16

How do you feel about it?

Yankathebear · 23/07/2020 14:45

The whole family are treating S like a mug. Borrowing and ignoring theft.
If I was S I think I would dump the lot of you.

IsMiseMorag · 23/07/2020 15:07

As someone who's had to deal with a similar family "debt elephant" casting a shadow over at least one wedding and a couple of funerals, I would urge you to get this resolved before you're all forced to come together at a time when emotions will be running even higher. Like when your DM leaves everything to A in her will and hell breaks loose

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 23/07/2020 15:26

Never lend family money.

We loaned BIL 10k about 8 years ago to invest in his business. He still owes us £5k and hasn't paid us a penny for over 5 years. At one point he denied that he still owed us anything, so I had to go through our accounts to prove to myself and DH that we'd not had it. And BIL then admitted that yeah, he does still owe us... That was 18 months ago. Not another penny has come our way. I now don't trust him because he lied to us.

I have no idea how he settles his conscience.

So I'm with S in this.

pinkyredrose · 23/07/2020 16:18

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman have you considered taking him to the small claims court?

monkeymonkey2010 · 23/07/2020 18:01

S takes the view that we should call A out and apply pressure to resolve this as we still talk to him...
well you all certainly have put S in the role of your cash cow/interest free loans and even 'persuaded' an unreliable A to ask S for money knowing he wasn't trustworthy!!!!

so yea - the 'family' should be taking responsibility and accountability...and stop using S as your personal cash cow!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 23/07/2020 18:43

pinky, no. It would cause too much of a family bust-up to be worth it and there's an outside chance that we'll see it one day.

And DH would consider it beneath his dignity.

pinkyredrose · 24/07/2020 08:22

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman tbh why isn't there already a family bust up due to the fact he's stolen 5k from you?!