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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sibling loan causing family difficulties...

101 replies

kemos · 23/07/2020 05:20

I was wondering if I could ask for advice here. I have quite a few step/half/siblings and I get on with all of them quite well, but they don't get on with each other...

About ten years ago we were all much closer, we knew if we got into difficulty and needed a short term loan, my eldest sibling (S) was happy to help most of us out with the money, and we always paid S back in short order, over the years S helped out me, my parents and many of my other siblings in this manner.

Unfortunately it came to a situation whereas one of my other siblings (A) got into difficulty and used a pawn shop to set aside jewellery and borrow money. The pawn shop called in the debt and A didn't have the funds to cover it. Other siblings (not me) convinced A to approach S for a loan. Knowing that A was unreliable with money, S demurred, until A offered the much higher value of the jewellery as security until the loan was repaid.

Because S was not at the time living in the same part of the UK as A and the pawnshop, S transferred the money (a shade over £2,000) to A's account and asked my mother to hold the jewellery until they could get it. The debt was repaid and the jewellery returned to A.

Two months later, S came home for a visit and asked my mother for A's jewellery. Somehow A had not turned it over, and many excuses followed, ending with 'I had to give it to my partner, because I owe her money'. Probably tired of being hassled for the money, A announced he was moving out of the room at my mother's, and in with friends. Arguments followed, with S accusing A of engineering an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude to the debt. A responding that such an accusation was a terrible stain on their character. A week after they moved out, S searched through A's left behind possessions and discovered pawnshop paperwork for part of the jewellery dated six days after he had forwarded the money, meaning he had pawned at least some of it again.

Unfortunately, not a penny was repaid and the debt still exists, ten years later and has driven a wedge between my family. It may be just a debt between A and S, but it has created such an enormous elephant in the room whenever family gatherings are arranged.

S accepts that the debt will never be repaid, but now outright refuses to see/speak/be in the same place at the same time as A, and boycotts all family events that A attends, so if A comes for Christmas, S will make excuses, but we know the real reason...

Most of the family take the position that it's either ten years worth of water under the bridge or simply a matter between A and S, but perhaps justifiably, S takes the view that we should call A out and apply pressure to resolve this as we still talk to him...

I'm not sure what can be done after so much time, perhaps I'm venting, perhaps I'm hopeful this can be resolved.

OP posts:
Devlocopop · 23/07/2020 07:38

I think it is disgraceful that nothing at all has been paid back in the 10 years. A needs to start paying whatever they can, the thieving bastard.

It is not just between A and S though, the whole family should let A know that what they did was unacceptable. This just shows S that A is seen as more important because no one wants to upset the thieving bastard and yet S is allowed to be upset and they are in the right.

Family meeting where everyone tells A they are a shithead.

fuckinghellapeacock · 23/07/2020 07:40

Poor S. I was treated this way by my uncle and the shock when everyone said it was nothing to do with them,, after basically persuading me to loan him the money, was horrible. I have never lend anyone another penny.
How can everyone act like this is ok? A has stolen from S and lied repeatedly. Do you trust them?

TheLegendOfZelda · 23/07/2020 07:45

The mother more than any of the siblings holds a weight of responsibility here. She didn't keep the jewellery safe. What did she say when asked for the 2k instead to replace the jewellery she gave away?

The family sound hard work and S is best off out of it. Keep them at arms length, op

FollowYourOwnNorthStar · 23/07/2020 07:49

OP you write as if you are one of the siblings. As you seem to agree with S’s position (as do, I) I’m very surprised you are allowing S to be pushed out of the family, and yet A still attend everything as though nothing was wrong. In fact, due to no one wanting to upset the applecart, A has the perfect life, where he never needs to see S and be reminded of the debt, and he can choose the family events he wants to go to, whilst S can’t.

If you and all your siblings (and your mother - she was supposed to get the jewellery)
want to take the attitude that we are ok that 10 years ago A essentially stole £2000 from S, and a lot of you are complicit in that you encouraged both parties into making the loan, and your mother failed to get the jewellery in the first place), then I think you should all chip in to pay S back and effectively have A’s part of that loan transferred to you.

If you do so, and are happy to let it go and still see A, then you can rightly expect S to see them too. If you aren’t willing to step up and bear the loss equally, then you/your siblings can’t expect S to ‘get over it’ and should be supporting them more and perhaps not attending family events when A is there too.

BurtsBeesKnees · 23/07/2020 07:52

Most of the family take the position that it's either ten years worth of water under the bridge or simply a matter between A and S

It might be 10 yrs ago, but A basically stole money from S and clearly had no intention of ever paying it back

The whole family were happy to take loans off S but are now trying to brush the whole thing under the carpet.

Tbh I'd suggest you all club together and pay S the 2k, you've probably saved that in Interest alone, on money borrowed over the years anyway. It won't repair the damage to the AS relationship but it might make S feel that her family cares about her

totalpeas22 · 23/07/2020 08:01

Borrowing money is what banks are for, getting money from relations generally causes problems. There is often bad feeling in families if one member has done financially better than others, add in borrowing and lending and you have a recipe for disaster.

AlwaysCheddar · 23/07/2020 08:02

someone needs to tell A to back off and let S attend family events.

EnjoyingTheSilence · 23/07/2020 08:03

I’m confused. In the original post you say the debt was repaid and the jewellery was returned to A. Am I missing something?

Tappering · 23/07/2020 08:04

I'm not surprised that S is pissed off.

The family has used them as a bank for years. Then one of them steals from S - because that's what it is - and a load of them think that because it was 10 years ago it doesn't matter any more.

This misses the point that it tells S that A is more important - because the family are closing ranks around A to excuse his behaviour. I wouldn't want to spend time with a thief either.

Tappering · 23/07/2020 08:05

@EnjoyingTheSilence I read that as A's original debt was paid using the loan from S, but instead of the jewellery being kept as security as agreed, it was given back to A - who promptly went and pawned some of it.

larrygrylls · 23/07/2020 08:07

Season,

I have supported my family, not the other way around. And it was only ever with gifts, not loans.

No stress, no bad feelings.

If you go down the loan route, you are never going to court to get repaid. So it is a matter of honour. And family dynamics get really complicated (and ill willed). The ‘rich’ person is always resented come repayment time (‘they don’t need the money and won’t even notice if I don’t repay...’).

As I said, if I am ever asked for a loan I either refuse or gift the money. Loans within family tend to cause bad blood (witness this thread).

JaaniGoGo · 23/07/2020 08:10

I can’t believe that all of you were happy to go to S for money and support, yet non of you were willing to back them up when they needed your support.

I’m surprised S bothers with any of you.

Chloemol · 23/07/2020 08:14

S has a fright to be upset. A has stolen £2000 and appears to have got away with it, with the rest of the family complicit in helping A steal, and that appears to include the op.

It maybe 10 years ago, but that’s 10 years A could have set up a repayment scheme and have had the debt paid off

To be honest if I was S I would have gone no contact with the whole family now as they agree ,by continuing to see A and not sort out him paying it back , that’s it’s ok for A to steal, and that in fact at important family times such as Christmas and Easter A takes priority

Shoxfordian · 23/07/2020 08:19

I wouldn't be bothering to speak to any of you if I was S
Happy to use S as a bank and then won't support S against A when A basically stole 2 grand from S
Not good.

randolph78 · 23/07/2020 08:20

I agree with people who say A has stolen from S. This is a serious issues and S is right to feel let down by the family IMHO. If S feels unable to attend family events when A is there then I'd not invite A and I'd tell A exactly why that was happening. The family are colluding with A in making out this is 'not a big deal really' in not doing so. 'Water under the bridge' is a horrible thing to say about such a serious incident. People don't just get over it when their trust is abused and S should not be expected to.

Happynow001 · 23/07/2020 08:24

@slipperywhensparticus

I actually hope s never bails any of you out again you totally dropped them in it

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Alternatively, those of you who encouraged S to lend to A when they didn't want to should collectively pay S their £2000 back.

The fact that this happened 10 years ago and S is still angry should show you how betrayed S feels by their family and I wouldn't blame S if no further loans were forthcoming to other family members.

Lordamighty · 23/07/2020 08:30

As a family you ought to be ashamed of yourselves, happy to borrow money from S but now A has effectively stolen £2k from S you all want S to forget it ever happened.
How disappointed S must be with you all.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 23/07/2020 08:30

A is a thief - why do the rest of the family not say so and put pressure on.

Rainbowqueeen · 23/07/2020 08:30

@IndecentFeminist has it exactly right

I honestly can’t understand why anyone would think this is water under the bridge. Does your family have no morals?

EnjoyingTheSilence · 23/07/2020 08:33

@Tappering that makes sense thank you (must have been too early for me to understand 😳)

I totally agree with everyone else, S has been treated appallingly by the family as a whole and A is a thief

HouchinBawbags · 23/07/2020 08:33

As it's 10 years on, is A financially sound now? If so, I'd be willing to be a total bitch and fake an emergency where I needed to borrow £2K off A immediately. Then I'd promptly hand it over to S. mind you, with a family like that I wouldn't be bothered about causing a family ruckus. After all, A got away with it and never suffered consequences. And if it does cause a stink, who cares? A family like that is no loss. What a sleekit, skeezy lot!

SpeedofaSloth · 23/07/2020 08:34

I feel sorry for S here. A should repay the money now.

user1471462428 · 23/07/2020 08:37

Wow so you’re all prepared to borrow off the rich one but then allow something that’s basically theft because you’re to spineless to back the right person up. I thought my family were fucked up but you lot take the biscuit

RandomMess · 23/07/2020 08:38

I'm with S £2k is a lot of money to use and the family colluded with A and still continues to collude now...

How hurtful for S all they are good for is to borrow money from???

Alloverthegrapevine · 23/07/2020 08:42

It would be between A & S except that the whole family got involved in putting pressure on S to lend the money in the first place.

It's a bit rich to call £2000 "water under the bridge". If it's so insignificant, maybe they can settle the debt for their sibling?

In your mother's shoes, having been part of the pressure and then failed to take custody of the jewellery, I'd feel obliged to repay the debt myself, if A really isn't going to do it.

Poor S being seen as a charity for the whole family. I'm amazed s/he wants anything to do with any of you.