Kids unhappy about going to their dads 3 years on

[DocusDiplo]

Please can someone advise.
I separated from DD11 and DS9s dad 3 or four ago.

The kids absolutely hated going to his every fortnight. I kept it up due to pressure from him, and advice on here that he should see them and I should plaster on a smile for their sake.

I've done this for a few years but it's the same each fortnight. Occasionally they will go without moaning. But I'm so tired of the complaints and moaning from them. They say they miss me, get nightmares etc etc.

What do I do???

We don't see eye to eye on parenting. He says they need to shut up and put up with it and i shouldn't pander to their emotional manipulation.

He pays the minimum maintenance and there is no formal order, just an arrangement.

Honestly, I'm really struggling and have noone to support me.

He got another woman pregnant within 6 months of leaving me. So they've had alot to get used to. He also moved an hour's drive away (so the better option of seeing him more frequently but fewer nights over is not an option).

They seem to have a nice enough time there, go to the park and beach. But still don't want to go.

Please can anyone advise???? I feel absolutely conflicted.

Thank you in advance.

Could you switch to a one day outing each weekend? That would be less and more frequent. Ie drive down Saturday morning, you drop them off and he brings them home in the afternoon/evening?

Is it complaints and moaning or are they actually distressed by the idea of going? When they get back are they happy they went?

It's all turned to shit. My DD11 finally told him today that she doesnt want the present arrangement to continue. (I have tried so many time over the years but he dismissed it). I asked her to tell him directly. She finally has. For so long she has pretended to be happy and gone along with it cos she felt noone listens to her, her dad dismisses her feelings. He's pretty annoyed.

He's said they're spoilt, I don't set them boundaries and they need to learn to not get what they want all the time. And they're doing to turn into horrible adults. He said this to them face to face and now again on the phone to my DD.

I feel content I've spoken up. I need to do what's right for my children.

Sorry @GhostOfMe to answer your questions, they normally start asking a few days before about when they're going, saying they don't want to, asking for now many nights etc . They used to get very upset and beg to come home when I ever phoned them so I stopped contacting them.
They keep (both, separately) saying they don't want to go and saying they don't like it.
I think there was no easing into the arrangements when it began (it just went straight from them not being close to him AT ALL to every other weekend, Because he wanted that).

A couple of yrs ago my daughter started saying she is hearing voices.

He just denies there is any problem and that they need to suck it up for character building. He says this to them. They just need to deal with it as they can't get their way.

Contact is for the benefit of the children. Unless your DC are horrible spoiled little brats, it's on your husband to do some work to maintain the relationship. Soon your DC will be old enough to be heard in court if your ex wants to take it that far - he needs to think about that possibility.

If he was always the (overly) strict parent, it's no wonder they don't want to see him. Only you know whether there is any substance in what he says. I'm thinking not.

He does not listen at all. He is just a broken record. When we split up, I had no job, no money, and a bit clueless and worried.

Now, I have a secure job (so threats about stopping maintenance don't matter as much) and more confidence in saying that the children are NOT OK. It's not because I "pander to them" or let them "emotionally manipulate", as he says.

Essentially, he left out the blue a few years ago and he didn't really have a relationship with them when we were together. He decided to shack up with a woman straight away so she has always been there at contact. (Obviously they've been together now for a while so it's different) but she was a total stranger at the beginning and they were 5 and 7 and already struggling with divorce so it was not in their best interests to rush it. I stayed out of it and forced them to go. He then moved to a different city, an hour on the motorway, so we (kids) have to travel to see him and this makes it harder for them as they can't just see him for a short time.

Essentially, he made the decisions that suited him when he had power that were all about Him. Now, it's finally time to stand up to him and my daughter has texted him her thoughts. I'm not standing up to him for the sake of it but because the children are emotionally struggling and I don't want to risk long term harm to their mental health anymore. I can finally stand up for my children and it feels so nice.

Your role is to facilitate so make some suggestions but back up your daughter.

He could visit them instead of them going to him for example, plenty of Airbnb's about. I bet he's less keen when he has to put in some effort and be disrupted instead of them.

Can they articulate what they don't like about going to their Dads? Is it connected to something as simple as missing their friends or even their x box? Does he have different, stricter rules? Are they bored there? How many nights are they there?

It does seem a shame that he wants to continue the contact and you are not trying to facilitate this by sitting down as a family and trying to work out what needs to change to make the kids happy.

Could you ask a family member or friend to mediate?

Since he moved isn't it up to him to collect them?
Can your kids keep a diary of what's actually happening?
Are they generally well behaved and he's especially strict so it makes it tense when they visit, and do they say anything about his other child who must be a toddler?

If this went to court your 11 year olds wants would most certainly be taken into account on contact.

The 9 year old could go either way.

Does he drop them home or do you have to collect as well?

Omg I empathise. Same position here but mine are younger. They only go because I've trained them to. My only rule is that they must all go together. No way is he cherry picking one kid. And if he does then that child has the soup responsibility of supporting that adult. Sucks. Also sucks it is our job to 'facilitate' it. Turns out everything is our job. When it's successful it's their fathers doing, when it's unsuccessful it's mine. Personally my plan is the same as yours, when they are 11 or 12 they will, quietly, gave my blessing to say no. Personally mine only go now so that by that age he has well and truly ruined it for himself.

I agree with your position however...if this goes to court you may not get the back up that you think is in the best interests of the child.

How are you communicating this to him? Just advise that you use email and always try to promote his contact with the children and put forward their feelings but with suggestions that will help them enjoy the time with him.

The reason I say this is that some/many courts promote children seeing the nrp even if the child is highly resistant. NRP often use parental alienation as a reason and it is accepted by courts.

If he is a bully then he will use whatever strategy that works for him rather than best interests if the children.

Thanks for your responses.

Currently they go fortnightly from Friday night to Sunday late afternoon and we meet half way for pickup/dropoff. He used to come once midweek for an hour or so but that was often cancelled (maybe 50% of time) if he was working late or tired.

I'm happy to take them weekly for the day, or once a month for the whole weekend or another combo, but he won't discuss it at all. He just keeps reiterating why it should stay at EOW. I've also let him visit them at my house so he could see them comfortably. There is no benefit or need for me to be an obstacle but I don't want to be the one forcing them to go in tears anymore and dealing with the run to them going.

They say it doesn't feel like home, they miss me, they have nightmares but that's as far as they can articulate their feelings. They have said they're jealous of the toddler but I brushed this aside a little as that's normal with siblings isn't it.

They seem to do nice activities there , there's no problem with that.

I am happy to facilitate; I've never discouraged them from going and tried to be positive for them , etc etc. However this has been going on for years and I think they're old enough now to listen to them.

This is a man who has always been selfish. When he was doing nights he used to ask me to take a toddler and baby out the house all day and wander the streets so that he could sleep and we wouldn't disturb him accidentally.

Have they told you why?

X post!

That's so scary @Techway
I just speak to him or text him, we don't use email. I really really wouldn't want anything to go to court. The stress for everyone would be unnecessary and unhelpful. It's something I should think about, thank you.

He is more strict but I don't Think that's the reason they don't want to go. I Think with that they would moan rather then being very upset ????

Have you had legal advice on what a court might decide should you reduce contact, eg to one weekend a month and the offer of a day visit (outing) in your town another weekend each month?

That seems necessary to inform your decisions.

Would weigh up how likely it is that he’d go to court.

I would tell him they don't want to go and stay with him.
Why doesn't he come up to see them and take them out for the day?
If he does take you to coury, and bare in mind your dd might be 12 by this time, can a judge make you take them to his, isn't it his responsibility to collect them.
I would go down this route first, he comes to see them or at least drives to pick them up. This alone might make him not so stubborn.

Sounds like he is ticking a box here.
He moved away from his children. He chose to bring a half sibling into this incredibly upsetting situation which is gutting for most children. I'm betting if he split from the current woman, he would not come to collect your children as he wouldn't have to put on the "caring father" facade.
I don't blame your dc for not wanting to go. Does he ever see them alone without his new woman and child?

Yes, I'll do this Thank you.i haven't had any legal advice as was trying to keep it simple.

If he tries to go to court won't you have to do mediation first?

I've heard that. I'm so sad. I feel so stuck in the middle and don't know what is right. I feel absolutely sick. I want them to be happy to go but they never are. I can't fix everything and my life is already hard enough, I work nearly f/t, I study, I am drowning and this is a burden that I can't cope with. Why is this my problem to solve? I feel so stuck. I hate him so much.

I too think you should tell him they don't want to go. His choice to move an hour away so he should come down to visit, maybe take them out just for the whole day instead of overnights. The poor kids are having nightmares and sound really distressed. Ignore any moaning or blaming from him. Make it clear you are offering him visits, then if he decides to go the court route so be it. By the time that happens your DD will be old enough to be heard that she has no desire to go. Good luck x

You should take your dd to the gp if she is hearing voices.
Speak to their school about some support and counselling.
Your children sound distressed and a counsellor in school could really help.