Givers and takers in friendship?

[Bellelou]

Do you think people in a friendship should make equal effort to maintain that friendship like you would in a relationship? Or are people just naturally ‘givers’ or ‘takers’?
I find I’m always the friend who makes contact, organises get together, or genuinely seems to bother about people.
I’ve often thought If I didn’t bother I wondered if they would

During lockdown I’ve continued working all the way through as a key worker whilst many of my friends have been furloughed or had reduced hours. In the beginning I made an effort to contact my friends regularly to make sure they were ok and didn’t need anything etc.
Then life just got busy trying to juggle everything and I suddenly realised last night with the exception of one friend none of my other friends have once bothered to check up on me. And that got me thinking that it’s actually always me who contacts them.
So is it because they not bothered about our friendship (&some date back 30 years +) or are there just ‘takers’ in a friendship who although they value the friendship don’t ever consider making contact first?
I’m genuinely interested. I’m not particularly hung up about it, although feel sometimes it would be nice if one of them thought about me and acted on it.

Yes I think people should make equal effort ,but people can be thoughtless, lazy and busy and their friendships slide. Even thou it takes 10 seconds to send a text lots of people just don't bother. And often those people can wonder why they don't have many or indeed any friends !

Honestly, OP, I don’t feel the need to bustle around tending my friendships as if they were houseplants. I get in touch with friends if and when I want to, for the pleasure of their company, and assume they do the same for me. For instance, during lockdown I’ve been living somewhere very rural with no car, landline or mobile signal, WFH on a demanding project, home educating DS, looking after my parents at a distance, and trying to find a house to buy, so I haven’t been in touch with anyone other than my (shielding) parents. Those friendships will be there to be resumed later.

I don’t consider this ‘taking’ in friendship terms, just as I wouldn’t consider being the first to get in contact or propose meetings to be ‘giving’ — I would assume that the friend who always proposed meeting was someone who needed company more than I did, and were acting according to what they wanted to do.

I have fully as many good longterm friendships as I want, and I really don’t recognise the flouncy ‘Well, my ‘friend’ hasn’t replied to my last three texts, so that’s the end of that!’ approach you often see on here.

Yes there are takers in friendships. My best mate really seems to take me for granted and I've started pulling back because if that. After years of being the giver and her not being there for me earlier this year when I really needed it, I'm reevaluating everything. She also seems to make effort with others which hurts too.

Gahh, that turned out as more of a rant than I thought!!

I completely agree with @Ignoble

For me, friendships are never about giving, taking, expectations or what’s ‘owed’ to me.

I get in touch with friends if and when I want to, for the pleasure of their company, and assume they do the same for me.

It's so refreshing to read this. Far too many women seem to keep their friendships in ledgers, bitterly totting up profit and loss.

Friends are meant to amuse, not underpin your entire sense of self.

I disagree with some of the posters on here. I think there should be some reciprocal effort in friendship. If I’m always the one making effort and suggesting to meet up then I’m going to eventually get bored of doing that! Unless you’re Stephen fry or Sarah millican and can really really amuse me. I mean come on. The best friends I have put some effort into wanting to see me. It has to be give and take. Not always equal but balancing out. If I’ve got a friend going through a really hard time and they put in zero effort then totally fine and I’m going to pick up the slack but if you’re in lockdown, making plans with others, not responding to messages then meh. I’m not going to keep bothering if you make no effort back. We’ve just been through one of the worst times in history. If you can’t send a simple text or respond to a message saying “how are you” then there’s not much friendship to talk of

Friendships should be both give and take. I don’t have a spreadsheet but if friends never contact me either to text to see how I am or to arrange a meet up, I assume they are not interested in seeing me so don’t make the effort back.

@Ignoble I’m certainly not bustling around my friends treating them like houseplants. When I messaged them at the start of lockdown I genuinely cared that they were ok and managing.
@Chitlin I’m joy keeping a ledger of credit and debit in my friendships. The friendships I value I will still keep and nurture in the way I always had.

I was just curious as to whether others experienced this ? And whether it was just a natural role we fall into?
I suppose I wondered if friendships that floundered because i didn’t bother were genuine friendships Or whether me making the effort was actually more of an annoyance to them?

That should read I’m not keeping a ledger!

I think the important point the OP is making is who initiates the conversations, emails, texts.

I agree with you OP.

I’ve backed off some (workplace) friendships because it’s was one way getting the conversations going. One day it dawns on you and you think ‘I’ll back off , let’s see what happens’.

I know what you mean OP. I know people who make more effort to respond promptly to messages from bosses that they hate than friends who have their back - go figure!

I’ve relaxed a lot on the friendship front over the years. I used to get upset at feeling like the giver all the time. I’ve realised that the vast majority of people are quite self-absorbed and just don’t think to. They do love you etc but they’re too busy thinking about themselves. My marriage broke down & ive had a lot going on. It’s interesting (& not at all surprising) to see what friends get in touch even at times of crisis.

It’s a sad life lesson but IMHO and experience, lowering expectations and expecting NOTHING from others is the way to go with friends. Take them as they are, enjoy the moments and live your own life. Tough I know OP when you’re a thoughtful time like you & me.

type

Some people might see me as a taker because I only want to see my friends three times a year max, whereas some would be happy with every week. I've actually once had a conversation where I remarked that I was going parttime so I could do all my stuff on wednesdays and she said she's ask her boss wednesdays off too so we could spend the whole day every week together. The mere thought made me claustrophobic. I like my friends, but I need a lot of downtime to process things and I need weeks to process a visit from one of them.

Some people might see me as a taker because I only want to see my friends three times a year max, whereas some would be happy with every week. I've actually once had a conversation where I remarked that I was going parttime so I could do all my stuff on wednesdays and she said she's ask her boss wednesdays off too so we could spend the whole day every week together. The mere thought made me claustrophobic. I like my friends, but I need a lot of downtime to process things and I need weeks to process a visit from one of them.

People clearly have different takes on what a 'friendship' is and means to them. I think the problem you have is that your take is different to most of your friends. Seems like they see it like @lgnoble does but you don't.
Personally friendship is about enjoying the company and caring about another person. Checking in with them and staying in touch is what keeps friendships going.
So I agree with you that there should be effort on both sides. It doesn't have to be equal effort as some people have more going on that others, but some effort is needed in my opinion.

I have one friend who wasn't really there for me a whole lot when my long term relationship ended. I'm sure she thinks she was, but I didn't feel that at the time. About a year later, she had a breakup (from a VERY short term relationship) and she practically had a breakdown. She sucked up all my time, coming round to my house almost every day. Phoning me for LONG calls. Because I'm a good friend, I was there for her but she will often say "we were there for each other". Not really how I see it. Some people are genuinely clueless about their input into a friendship.

I have found this too. I'm the only one of my friends working full time and in a stressful job, I have more kids than my 3 best friends.

1 friend has been furloughed as has her husband
2 other friends work part time.

I called all of them to check how they were doing because I care, but I have had a crap few weeks and no one bothers to contact me.

I know two of them don't make an effort with anyone else either but it still hurts that they could call me or text once in a while. They are not even on social media so they don't see anything o post or what I am up to.

I feel sad and sometimes want to call them to meet for a walk but then I think why should I bother ?

@1neverending lots of people are very self absorbed aren't they ? I'd like to think I'm a caring friend if I haven't heard from someone in a while I will text them or sometimes I put an alarm on my phone to remind myself to get in touch . Lots of people don't bother , my sister is one of them she literally makes no effort with people and actually said to me the other day ' oh you've got loads more friends than me ' I was so close to saying well yea I make an effort you don't it's that simple. Just a little caring phone call or message can go a long way , some people are just too self absorbed simple as that I'm afraid.

I think it depends on whether you feel resentful about always being the 'giver'?
I had a long standing 'friendship' where I was always and I mean always the giver.
She took time, favours, and her expectations of me were incredibly high to do, or perform a favour.
For example she was always asking for stuff in my home, saying it would better than hers. When I divorced and was vulnerable, she asked for a lot of my things, saying it was best 'to start again'. Yet when she was getting rid of old table wanted £50 for it. There are loads of examples, and its the lack of thought that makes you feel worthless, such as not instigating texts etc.
I was very unlucky as not only was my friend a taker she was a user too. But its a fine line, as you then drive the relationship they put even less effort in as they see you as lower value.
I got rid of my 'friend' I told her that I felt it was unbalanced and that I felt hurt that I was the one to do favours/ childcare, not fun things or even just chatting. When she realised I had rumbled her and was not going to be her unpaid helper, she got angry and dropped me. I realise now that a real friend woild actually be sad to lose me, she was only sad she would lose what I do for her.
I realise I had a long pattern of this and it wasnt the first time.
I now have healthier friendships, where my friends are genuinly glad we have each other. Even if they are busy (as we all are) they will text and say not forgotten about you, will have a proper catch up soon etc.
I am sure lots of you gave examples of this?
It should not be 50/50 or keep a mental track, but if like a relationship with a man you do all the running it makes you feel pretty worthless.
We make excuses for people, but sometimes its that they just not really bothered. So if it upsets you let it fade. Do they contact you for a favour, or are they genuinly wanting to see how you are?
I can honestly say I have cut out all of the people like that now. My circle is Tiny now, but I feel much more happier with my friendships.

I suppose I wondered if friendships that floundered because i didn’t bother were genuine friendships Or whether me making the effort was actually more of an annoyance to them?

Well, from my point of view, 'genuine' friendships are conducted purely according to what the people involved want from them, which may of course change over time. If a friend gets in touch with me, I don't see that as them 'putting in effort' or doing me some kind of favour, I see that as them wanting to see me or talk to me.

If that person felt they were putting in an undue amount of effort into the relationship compared to the pleasure they got from it, or was keeping some inner ledger of who got in touch with who most, I don't imagine the friendship would survive for long, because we would have different, clashing philosophies of friendship.

For instance, I have absolutely no idea who usually initiates contact in my friendships. If it is me, I clearly don't feel it's a burden, or that I'm 'putting in all the effort', or I'd be conscious of it as a negative. But I would in any case only be contacting the person because I wanted to hear from them/see them, rather than out of some sense of duty, so the only person I'm doing a favour to is myself, if you see what I mean.

I wouldn’t necessarily judge friendships during lockdown. Some people have been having tough times and gone into themselves. I think it’s good to understand the dynamics of your friendships. Let’s you know where to put your effort when you have the energy. In other words don’t put yourself out for people that don’t make the effort for you if you’re busy/ depleted of time and energy.

It's so hard isn't it. With two of the best friends that never contact me. I know they don't arrange things with other friends and we try and go on holidays like weekends camping or weeks away as families (which I organise) and they always say they miss us and we are the only people they meet up with or go away with but it's such a shame they never make first contact.

We have been friends for almost 16 years now and it feels like it's always the same.

I always try to not just text but actually call to see how they are

I don't think friends need to be be simplified into 'givers' and 'takers'. I have a friend who tends to take the lead in organising get togethers for a geographically scattered group - we all admit that we probably wouldn't manage it without her but she does seem to embrace the organiser role, and I don't think she sees us as 'taking' from her. I also have friendships where I usually initiate contact - not by agreement; it's just the way things have panned out, and we're always pleased to see each other. I think it comes down to how you feel about individual friends - if they drain you, let you down or never reply to messages then maybe it's right to let things slide, but if it's more that their friendship habits are different to yours, there might be a case for just accepting those differences and continuing to make the contact that comes naturally to you.

@anicebag thats a good point its been hard on everyone for lots of reasons.
But thats what friendships are too, feeling like others care about the good/difficulties in your life? Maybe downgrade some of the ones that don't step up in hardship or celebrate the good as aquaintances to hang out with but dont over share. Likewise dont run yourself ragged to assist as soon as they need a favour. I think in your heart you know who really values you?