Toxic sister

[BafflingBrook]

NCd as don’t want to be recognised, but could really use some advice.

I went no contact with my sister several years ago now. She attracts drama, doesn’t care about anyone but herself and quite frequently puts family members in difficult situations with things like money. Close family know all of this, but extended family and friends think she’s the bees knees (she’s an extrovert and great fun so is well-liked).

One quite small incident made me feel enough was enough and I’ve been much happier since making the decision to cut her out. The difficulty, and the thing I’d love advice on, is how to navigate relationships with the rest of the family who are choosing to stay in contact with her.

Obviously this is absolutely their choice so I’d never criticise someone else’s decision to stay in contact with her (even when I field frequent phone calls about the latest awful thing she’s done) and I am working on setting boundaries and saying things like ‘oh yeah, that’s why we don’t speak actually. Anyway, how is work?’ Etc. But I really struggle with being told by our parents/grandparents etc that I’ve hurt them for causing a rift and a split.

Occasions like Christmas are difficult, as I’d rather make alternate arrangements than have to spend the day with her, but my family absolutely cannot accept that and I get bombarded with texts and calls (and my DM crying) about why I’m being so selfish.

Has anyone been in this situation or similar? I really don’t want to ‘give in’ and get back on speaking terms but this just seems impossible.

No offence but why can't you just go along and not spend time with her?
Why does it have to be all dramatic and getting 'bombarded' with calls?
Wouldn't you be more upset if there were no calls like this?
Isn't all this more upsetting fir others than its worth fir you?

Keep working on your boundaries.
If they call to tell you about her just stop them. 'This is why I have chosen to go NC so I don't want to hear about it.'
As for contact calls etc... just be very blunt with them.
'I'm not discussing this. It's my decision and you need to respect it.'
I can't begin to imagine how hard this is OP.
But lots on here do know and more will be along soon with some good advice.
Stay firm. Ignore the flying monkeys. Tell them straight!

My story is basically identical to yours. I haven't talked to my sister in 20 years ( half my life). The last time I spoke to her she stole drugs from her neighbour and when she was challenged on it told them it was me, I had to pay to cover the costs or they were going to kill me. So It wasn't a hard decision to go no contact with her (that story is the tip of the iceberg).

She had kids that I adored though and although I never stopped seeing them it was awkward. I'd park outside and she would send the kids out to spend the weekend with me, arrangements made via my mum. Oh , it was awful. They are all grown up now thank goodness... I had to navigate all the other family relationships as well. As I was the only one that went no contact then I was the one who was being unreasonable ..... So she gets first choice in everything. Literally every holiday, Christmas, wedding, christening, family party. She is priority over me ( my sister is also very popular with some of the family, she likes partying etc)

It is basically that you go along and it's awkward or you don't go and get left out. It was very hard for me but I really had no choice. She would have destroyed my mental health if I had stayed in contact.

I couldn't go back though, like you I would have suffered more with her in my life. Life is not fair sometimes.

"But I really struggle with being told by our parents/grandparents etc that I’ve hurt them for causing a rift and a split".

They are wrong; you personally have not caused this dysfunctional situation to arise at all. They calling this between you a rift and a split downplays its significance as well. I presume they are not saying anything about your sister's part in all that when they accuse you of hurting them so therefore their opinion should be ignored. They are not listening to you and will not listen; they want to maintain their own agenda here.

Such toxic dysfunction like you describe often goes down the generations and in your case your parents have played a large part in how this dynamic has arisen between you two as sisters. What was it like growing up in your house?. Not great I daresay.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what are your roles here?.

Your sister reads like a nasty piece of work (it may well be that she actually has some sort of untreated and untreatable personality disorder; emotionally healthy people do not behave as you have described) and the people who like her and or otherwise pander to her do that in order not to get her barbs in their direction. Its not your fault your sister is like this and you did not make her that way.

You do not have to tow the party line and subject yourself to your toxic sister for the supposed sake of "family peace and or harmony". I would stay well away from any and all who run around after your sister because they are really not worth your time and effort.

I would urge you to read and or post further on the current May 2020 "we took you to Stately Homes" thread. You may also want to look at the Out of the FOG website too.

None taken! It’s ironic really because it’s exactly what I wanted to avoid- I was hoping by cutting her out it would put an end to every day being a new drama. And I hate to think of this causing others upset. Going along and not speaking isn’t really an option- we’re not a huge family so it’d be very obvious. I’d either have to speak and be nice or just not be there.

"Please stop placing the blame for this situation on me because you don't want to face up to where it should really lie."

You would not tolerate this or any of this really from a friend, family are no different and these people are blaming you unfairly and wrongly for causing "a rift and split". The cracks were there long before now and I would be examining your childhood as well as their own (what if anything do you know about your parents childhoods, that often gives clues) quite carefully.

You may not want to cause others upset but they have certainly not ever given you that consideration. Instead they've blamed you openly, its really in these people's interests to keep such a narrative in their head because it fits their world view and or image of you causing all this.

Thank you all for your responses so far- @SettingUp792 wow that sounds incredibly hard. I completely identify with her always being the priority in terms of events. There was hell on last year because she said she wasn’t going to a family wedding and then changed her mind but was furious by then I’d RSVPd with yes.

@AttilaTheMeerkat growing up things weren’t great and I definitely see a lot of her behaviour mirroring our dad’s. Not that I’m fully blaming him, I just can see how these patterns have become normalised in our family.

Thank you- I will check out the stately homes thread, I’m (sadly) sure there will be so much knowledge and experience there

I had to stop my family coming to me to moan about my sister/ vent about her also. It felt like they thought I had got off scot free and therefore should help them to deal with the stress of her all the time ( she had kids and took a lot of drugs, stole from people. Basically her kids got taken care of about 90% of the time by family. It was incredibly stressful.) Social services got involved a lot but we managed to stop the kids going into foster care. All the time I wasn't talking to her. It was stressful .

They don't talk about her now that the kids are adults but it took years to get them to stop it.

Instead of seeking the necessary help your dad likely repeated the same old ill treatment that got meted out to him as a child by his own inadequate uncaring parents. He took the low road. This type of toxic dysfunction indeed goes down the generations.

Your sister is likely to be a carbon copy of dad with your mother being his attendant enabler and fellow weak person who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. No-one saw it fit to protect you from all that sadly and your only real option now is to walk away from all of them completely. They only have one agenda; theirs and they will not tolerate any dissent or deviation from that. You represent dissent and that is not tolerated in such family dysfunction.

You will need to grieve for the sister/parents/family you should have had rather than the ones you actually got.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

I have identified many toxic people/relationships in my family also. You are correct in what you say, this doesn't tend to happen in isolation. My role in the family has always been carer/fixer, hers has always been popular/fun. I am always the first to be told we are having a party , can you babysit?

Fortunately I love this role and have tried my hardest with the next generation to be a great aunt/ role model in the family. But sadly you can see the same issues coming through. Not that I'm perfect at all. I have issues. I have decided to start stepping away from the family a bit as my needs are just never even considered. Literally I am there to serve them and it's joyless. And very sad and stressful. Families are not always a gift.

@BafflingBrook

Sorry I feel like I just hijacked your thread!! It's just such a part of my life now that I don't even think about it anymore. But obviously this thread touched a big nerve in me. So I'm sorry.

It has caused me a great deal of pain , the entire situation. You lose a lot in this environment. People don't like the idea of you standing up for yourself in that way. Even though anyone would prefer not to go no contact with their own sister. It is obviously a last resort People struggle with this I've found.

If I could go back 20 years , I would tell myself to get some counselling and work hard on deciding what my role is in the family, what my boundaries/ limits are and how to explain/ enforce them. Counselling could really help with this I think.

My sibling situation is similar to yours, OP. To others, they are very likable, and people do not understand why I have chosen to minimise contact. The older I got, the more I realised how poorly they treated even their closest friends. I accepted that they most likely were quite derogatory about me, too, because they were my sibling. At the time, I thought that once the bile and vitriol was directed at me, I would have to decide about limiting contact. After a visit home to family, with my children, sibling had a major tantrum, really vile, and threw a butcher knife at my children and I (still not sure if accidental or on purpose), so I left straight away and went limited contact. This was enforced by sibling (and then my parents) blaming me for her actions.

Some behaviour is inexcusable, and I am happy putting my boundaries around that

@AttilaTheMeerkat wow you just got my mum spot on. She does whatever will give her the easiest life and there have been times where that’s been at my expense. I can’t ask her to do anything differently but I do need to get better at making sure my boundaries are in place.

@SettingUp792 no not at all, I’m sorry this touched a nerve with you and for what you’re going through. It’s painful, you’re right- I have had counselling before but for a different reason and I do think it could be useful here just to clarify my thoughts. Thank you for the suggestion!

I think part of the difficulty is in not being able to talk about this much in real life without creating ‘drama’ etc. It’s like you say, @spanishomelettes, when people are largely liked, nobody understands why you’ve chosen to cut contact. That sounds horrific, I hope you’re happier with new boundaries.

I suppose at the minute I’m struggling to see how it gets better- this was supposed to be a decision that would make things so much simpler. But I need to recognise things take time and it was never going to be like flicking a switch!

As crap as it sounds, the best thing that ever happened to me was my mother dying. I'd never had a good relationship with my sister, she was not particularly nice to me. She was popular and the family thought she was wonderful. I was and always have been, someone who would rather find a quiet place away from everybody.
It got to the point where I told my mother that I'd spent 30 years trying to build bridges and now it was her turn.
My mother died in 2014 and I haven't heard a thing since, I dont self harm anymore and dont get anxious when family is mentioned.
I'm freeeeee

@BafflingBrook I realise this is an older post but how did you get on? I am in very similar position and looking to vut out toxic sister but not really sure how to go about being 'the bad one'

@DaisyDoo1919 to be honest not much has happened since I posted- lockdown I think has helped in a weird way because the restrictions have meant there’s never been a situation (family get togethers etc) where I’ve had to see her.

There have been a few awkward exchanges where people have said things like ‘have you made up with your sister?’ etc but I suppose later down the line when more and more restrictions lift will be the real test.

I think as well I’m starting to make my peace with being painted as ‘the bad one’. Seeing how my sister has behaved over lockdown (calling family ridiculous to sticking to social distancing guidelines, breaking the rules from day one) has just highlighted to me exactly what sort of person she is and how little I actually care if people decide it’s easier to blame me.

That’s not to say it won’t be difficult, but I feel quite firm in my decision and less upset than I used to be- and like an above poster said, free!

Following this thread.

I'm multi-tasking here, mumsnetting and also listening to harriet lerner.

My problem is I cannot accept my m&d's perception of me anymore (dramatic, sensitive, emotional, confrontational, aggressive). I'm none of this but this narrative protects them from the emotional neglect, scapegoating and projecting ...... that was my childhood.
I feel free as well. The break from my parents low expectations of me is liberating.

But I don't want to lose my only sibling as well, even though my sibling was the golden child and thinks we had a great childhood.

@spanishomelettes wow, your sister threw a knife at your kids and your parents blamed you??

Parents can really back each other up in their deep denial of the actual truth. This is what my parents do. They have the same view of me, and they agree with each other, so in their logic, because they ''second'' each other, they must be right and I am deluded. They don't understand that they're just two for one in the same blind spot

I am in exactly this situation with my DB. I have been no contact for 11 years I won’t bore anyone with the details but I am glad I made the decision as it was the best thing for my own well being. Fortunately now no one bothers me with his dramas as repeating “not my problem” every time some one mentioned him has helped. He is in contact with all other members of my family and that’s up to them I have no issue with that. However, he has caused friction between me and some distant relatives (cousins) as he has obviously told them some bullshit stories about me (he spins a good tale) but although it’s upsetting to know this is happening in the background I just ignore it.

Although it was difficult being told by one of my cousins he had approached her and her at a family party why she was speaking to that cXxt but that says more about him than me.

My DM has in the last couple years told me it upsets her and we will have no family when my DM and DF pass but although I understand and I’m sorry she’s upset I will not go back on my decision. He is absolutely toxic, an alcoholic and mentally unstable ... it will not be my problem when they pass away.

This 1000% resonates with me op. I made the decision mid lockdown to become nc with db. It’s been brewing for years but came to a head mid covid. My db suffered with mh problems from mid teenage years, which I put down to his excessive drug use. His drug use has reduced but he now depends on alcohol and you would probably describe him as a functioning alcoholic. He has 1 child who he has responsibility for at weekends. Most weekends and all of school holidays the child gets taken to my parents for them to look after, even though both parents have health problems and are nearing 70. During lockdown he called me multiple profanities when I told him he was breaking the law and putting his son and my parents at risk by wanting to visit with child and stay over, (before bubbles were permitted.) I have a stressful job in healthcare and decided at this point that I couldn’t control the stresses I faced within my job but I could control external stresses put on me by friends, family etc. I therefore blocked him and said I was going nc. There’s other history behind it too. Whenever we go to my parents house together, I can guarantee he will have constant verbal altercations with my dad. I recall an incident around 6 years ago, when a verbal disagreement with my dad ended up in my dad trying to physically throw him out of the house. It was horrific, my 6 year old child was watching and if we could have got out of the house at that point I would have left. I made a decision at that point I would never go to my parents house at Christmas again. He constantly uses them for money. he works ft in a decently paid job, but always claims to have no money so begs for money, which he never repays. My mum has always said if my dad knew the true extent of how much she had given him, he would be mortified. Interestingly, he always has money for alcohol, cigarettes and weed. Over the years, he has had a life of petty crime, mainly for possession of weed, but did spend 6 weeks in prison for assault. I have now been chastised by family for making the decision to go nic.
Additionally, I have been made out to be the bad one for refusing to go on a family holiday with them all. Again, there is no way I could spend a week with db and his child, (who I can sadly see many of db’s traits continuing - continually back chats, needs to be centre of attention, thinks he is always the Victim, needs everything to be about him.) Yet again, I am made to be the bad one. This has all come to a head over lockdown with my mum too. She has turned it on it’s head and made me out to be the bad one for deciding to be nc. I have now fallen out with her and told her some home truths about how she is normalising his vile behaviours. This has resulted in us not talking to. I just wish people would respect my decision and accept it.

@Tara336, that was my mums response too when I told her he wouldn’t be my problem when she passes away....

@WriteHon I know this is from a few weeks back but your phrasing here really hits the mark - I am having a really tough time with a sibling but I am the one getting it in the neck. Bookmarked - and thank you

@Gingaaarghpussy

I don't judge you at all!  I have felt like there will be freedom in my mother's death.  It's always got to be me who goes back to her and smooths things over.   She is a text book martyr who will never accept that I have any legitimate right to feel anything like anger or hurt or disappointment or frustration about her.  She will get so angry so quickly.  Any attempt to have a discussion is shut right now.  All she's got is ANGER and so it's a stalemate at this point.  I'm bored of it.  

Have to see my brother tomorrow and he is the golden child and believes all the bullshit about me being paranoid and sensitive etc..... So I will need to remain very calm.