Sexual coercion

[teaandsconesagain]

How do you define it?
I'm not sure if I experienced it during my marriage of twenty years .

@RodeoOnaCamel out of interest has she had relationships since you separated?

I'm so glad it's over weirdly

Not weird at all.

I healed from the marriage split very quickly because of that continuous coercion. It helped to Move on if that doesn't sound strange

Of course it doesn't. It's lovely to be free of it!

@TiresomePaperDreams It sounds absolutely horrible. So glad you're free. x

^the absence of physical intimacy directly caused some of the things referred to as "coercion" in some of the posts above - I found myself withdrawing from her, sometimes being grumpy, and on a few occasions losing my temper and saying things I later regretted.
I was also very clear in explaining that sex/intimacy was not "optional" in the relationship for me, and that while I would never "expect" sex on any given day, week or even month, the reality was that not having it at all would doom the relationship.^

I would find you very, very nasty. Being free of men that pile on the pressure is liberation! Not having the sex you want didn't cause your behaviour- that behaviour was your choice completely. If you felt tetchy due to the lack of physical release you could give yourself a hand. And that sensation of being pressured, as PP's have said, is not a turn on at all and eventually makes women dislike their partner.

@Tiresome - I find my libido goes up and down. There doesn't have to be a reason for it, though whether I feel fat definitely makes a difference. I have eating disorder symptoms and the amount of thin where I feel comfortable having sex is actually unattractively thin, at least in my 40s. But I don't like if my tummy looks what I see as unpleasant during sex.

But sometimes I probably just am less horny than other times. As a relationship goes on my libido lessens for some reason.

@teaandsconesagain I'm not surprised at all that you feel relieved and could move on quickly. What an awful person he sounds. I hope you find happiness.

@RodeoOnaCamel can you start your own thread to discuss your marriage? Don't take up a woman's space to discuss how you may or may not have sexually abused your wife. Fwiw, your commandeering of this space makes you seem entitled enough that you could very well be a habitual abuser of women

@SoulofanAggron agree with all you have said.

It was absolutely awful. I used to get anxious when the kids had gone to bed and relieved if one of them woke up. Couldn't stand him touching me in the end and those words 'back on track' 🤢 I was so so relieved when it was over.

I think ex just thought I had gone off sex completely but I hadn't- I didn't want to have sex with him because he made my skin crawl after the way he behaved. The first time with someone else felt amazing and I have had a partner since who was just amazing.

I hope you're at peace with your body, I have similar issues at times 💐

Yes, withdrawing affection is a natural reaction to sexual rejection.

The difference between that and sexual coercion is intention. If you are sulking because you are hurt and frustrated then that's not coercion. If you are sulking because you know your partner will find that unbearable and will cave into your sexual demands so you'll stop, that's coercion.

Any kind of domestic abuse is a pattern. If your husband shouted at you once because you trapped his hand in the car and you've been together 25 years, he's not abusive.

If your husband shouts at you every single day because he wants to maintain dominance over you, that's abuse.

If your husband sulks, withdraws from you and doesn't speak to you until you cave in to sex, that's coercive sexual abuse. It's a pattern of abusive behaviour.

From the OP, her husband was sexually abusive. He regularly sexually assaulted her and coerced her into unwanted sex. All of that had nothing to do with lust, it had to do with dominance and control. Rape has nothing to do with lust. Men don't rape because they have unmanageable desire, they rape because they hate women and want to degrade and humiliate them.

Telling your partner that you are not willing to put up with a sexless relationship is not the same as coercing them into having sex with you.

@RodeoOnaCamel Well yeah it is really. It's a threat to leave if you don't get what you want. Coercion in a narrow definition is 'the action or practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.' The threat to leave is a threat. It's emotional blackmail and also meaning someone is under threat of losing other things in their lives if they don't give you sex if you want it.

It also means that someone is giving you sex, well, having it extorted from them, when they don't want it. They don't want that sex. Is it ok with you to 'have sex with' someone who doesn't want it? Ugh!

I hope you're at peace with your body

@TiresomePaperDreams It helps that I don't have to be naked for anyone. Hurrah! Pass the cake.

@SoulofanAggron

Thank you for telling me that you would find me "very, very nasty"! What a charming person you are! :-)

Your post suggests you think that sexual intimacy can be completely replaced with "having a wank". It can't, at least not for me. If it is that mechanical for you, then good for you.

I fail to see how telling your partner that you can't live with a sexless marriage is "nasty". Surely that's better than just leaving without any warning?!

@rvby

You are right about this seeming to have taken over the original thread - that was not my intention and I apologise to OP. You are cruel and nasty to suggest I am a habitual abuser of women though - that's a pretty disgusting and disproportionate response on your part.

^Yes, withdrawing affection is a natural reaction to sexual rejection.

The difference between that and sexual coercion is intention. If you are sulking because you are hurt and frustrated then that's not coercion. If you are sulking because you know your partner will find that unbearable and will cave into your sexual demands so you'll stop, that's coercion.^

@namechange12a Yes. Also I think the difference is that with a normal person they wouldn't inflict their feelings on their partner, their feelings mightn't be overwhelmingly clear, whereas a person being sexually coercive demonstrates them deliberately in order to have an effect on their partner.

I fail to see how telling your partner that you can't live with a sexless marriage is "nasty". Surely that's better than just leaving without any warning?!

But you said that some of the things we have mentioned as being coercive also happened in your relationship. Coercion isn't the same as having a calm and respectful discussion to say, not as an ultimatum, but to express how you feel, that sex is important to you.

What a charming person you are! :-)

You sound delightful to me, too.

Your post suggests you think that sexual intimacy can be completely replaced with "having a wank."

The thing is if you're nagging your wife into sex, that's not sexual intimacy. Intimacy = 'close familiarity or friendship' Nagging someone for sex isn't friendly, or demonstrating a close bond. That person will be doing something they hate/dislike. You don't make a person you're intimate with do that, and it's not a demonstration of intimacy.

You are cruel and nasty to suggest I am a habitual abuser of women though

Hardly any men admit that, even when they are though. Virtually everyone in prison is innocent. Or it's all those nasty women's/woman's fault for not putting out on demand.

@TiresomePaperDreams

(1) "I fail to see how telling your partner that you can't live with a sexless marriage is "nasty". Surely that's better than just leaving without any warning?!" (my comment)

(2) "But you said that some of the things we have mentioned as being coercive also happened in your relationship. Coercion isn't the same as having a calm and respectful discussion to say, not as an ultimatum, but to express how you feel, that sex is important to you." (your comment)

These are two separate points. I never withdrew, acted sulky, shouted and at the same time said to her "I'm not putting up without sex". The only times when I pointed out that a sexless marriage was not permanently on the cards, I did so calmly - and generally in the presence of a trained sex therapist or marriage counsellor.

I'd also like to point out that never in our entire relationship did any of my negative behaviours actually lead to sex. I totally agree that this kind of behaviour is a turnoff, and I was always ashamed of myself afterwards.

@SoulofanAggron

Congratulations on escalating your critique of me to the level of "sex offender in a penitentiary"!

I never nagged my wife into having sex. I occasionally became upset and withdrawn after months of rejection. And after many years I told her, calmly, that I couldn't remain in a sexless marriage. For some reason you wish to paint me as a rapist. I'd suggest that says more about you than it does about me.

@RodeoOnaCamel I'd love to know your ex-wife's point of view if it.

I agree with @rvby that this thread was a poor choice for you to post on. It seems as though we can't have a space to discuss what coercive control relating to sex is like to experience without someone on the other side trying to justify their actions.

@RodeoOnaCamel bud. Just start your own thread if you want to talk about yourself. You can have the last word there, if it's that important to you.

@teaandsconesagain

Women are told here all the time that they can end a relationship for any reason they want or no real reason at all.

I've certainly ended past relationships for sex related issues. Including not enough sex.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to someone that no sex in a relationship is a deal breaker. That's not the same as having a stop because sex wasnt available on a particular occasion.

*strop

Sorry. Should have tagged @RodeoOnaCamel

It defaulted to the OP after I C&P'd the name 🙄

I think what happened was that he expected the same level of sex during our marriage as we did before kids came along.
It cameto a point that I could not hug or Kiss him lightly without him seeing that as a come on yet he would never hug or kiss or sit with me unless it was for sex.He came
To bed hours after me and always waited up for me after I was out with friends so we would have sex. I had to drink alcohol to even contemplate sex with him. He made my skin crawl. Once he said to me as Inwalked past him with dinners for the kids, while looking down my top and doing some sort of shimmy , May I???? I nearly vomited . I wished he'd have a n affair or something would happen to get rid of him , yet when he did,I was totally shocked and sad.
Trying to unpick here. Your replies have been really helpful.
I got the ick and avoided sex or affection. It was a lonely lonely time.
I could not go to our room to sort clothes or clean en suite and he would follow
Me for a quickie while the kids were pottering about the house.
He kept slapping my bum every time he passed me and in front of the kids until my youngest son started doing the same to me.
He was so moody and sulky about sex and I completely shut down sexually.
I love sex but after he left I felt nothing sexually for a year.
I have not met anybody sexually since the split. I look forward very much to that but am
Worried that it will happen again.
I remember one evening shortly after he made his announcement to leave, I asked him if he was sure that he didn't want to go to counselling or try to keep our family together... he said no ... and I remember walking up the stairs and had a grin on my face. I couldn't understand why as I was terribly sad that our family was splitting.
I see now that I am free but am
Hesitant about a new relationship for sure.

@teaandsconesagain I'll reply properly soon but so much of what you have said resonates with me. Its sadly all so familiar 💐

@teaandsconesagain
I understand what you felt. I had similar with my ex but different as I did not want to be in the relationship at all but he manipulated me into being in the relationship and to stay in it. He would threaten suicide and so on.

but the sex part all resonates...apart from the fact that I didn't even want to be in a relationship with him and wasn't attracted to him he was also a problem drinker and there were so many issues. When it came to sex he made me skin crawl and I had to force myself to have sex with him, it didn't happen very often and it genuinely felt like I was raping myself.
I do not use that word lightly.
I was actually raped when I was a teenager....but forcing myself to have sex with my ex over a number of years caused me a lot of sexual trauma, far more than the rape in my teenage years.

Have you had any therapy after your relationship ended?

@teaandsconesagain I'm in no hurry to find a new relationship, after my latest sleazy ex. If I happen across someone who seems excellent then I might give it a go.

The trick would be to bin them at the first sign of any of these behaviours. There are probably other red lines, but this and disparaging comments about my figure are definite red lines for me. Oh and narcissistic sentiments.

Mine was the same @teaandsconesagain, within a couple of months of our DC being born he expected me to want sex with him all the time. And yes any time there was a cuddle or anything he'd always expect more.

I feel sick reading what you wrote about him making the comment whilst you were giving your DC dinner. How absolutely disgusting. And slapping your bum. What a revolting human being.

No wonder you felt relief, I did too. And I used to think the same- I loved sex too but he repulsed next and I thought I would never have sex again. I totally understand your hesitancy. I was 30 at the time and I ended up having a fling with a lovely 22yr old and I think I was attracted to him in part because ex was older than me and the younger guy was so different. I also felt 'safer' as I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere serious with him so i wasn't worried about history repeating itself. The abuse in my marriage has definitely scarred me and affects my choices going forward but luckily it's not put me off of sex.

Sorry for what you went through 💐

@teaandsconesagain my ex used to grope me in public and in front of DC as well. He would want me to be hypersexual at all times, but he was also pathologically jealous and seemed disgusted by me being a sexual being when it wasn't directly about me meeting his needs, honestly he just wanted a blow up doll.

I'll never forget the time I was ovulating and was actually up for it, honest to God he actually had a tantrum because I had rejected him a few days before, how dare I want sex on my own terms / according to my own timing... how dare I have preferences that didn't directly please him... ugh.

It's so difficult to keep loving someone who treats you like an appliance. It kills you over time, no matter how much you try to keep the fires going, as it were.

Another thing I've thought about is how terribly so many men are brought up and the disgusting messages that they learn through their socialization (media, peers etc) - basically many men seem to learn this idea that women exist to meet their needs. It starts with their mum picking up after them and expecting nothing from them (#notallmums), then it progresses to gfs and wives. They can't seem to connect the idea that a woman is a person, not an object, and that treating a person like an object is not going to make that person want to be close to them.

So much of sexual enjoyment is about whether you feel safe and free to be yourself with a partner - how can you enjoy or want something where you KNOW that your partner thinks of you as a "thing" intended primarily to meet his "needs"???

I say this as someone with a very high drive myself... all my partners have been people first to me, precious people who I care about and want to see happy and fulfilled. I can count on half a hand the number of men who have seen me in the same way. It's really so sad.

@rvby agree with all you've just said. There's so few of them that see women as anything more than something to stick their dick in. That's how it feels anyway.