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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this an abusive relationship.

26 replies

TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 14:13

Couple, married 9 yrs, 3 children aged 5, 3 and 18 months.

One partner will not allow the other access to joint bank account, will not allow them an individual bank account.

No household bills are allowed in second persons name.

Second person is not allowed to visit friends or family without the first person.

All text messages and phone calls to second person go to first persons phone as well. Second person is not allowed to reply to messages without message being checked by first person and is not allowed phone calls when alone.

Second persons car is damaged and unforgivable,first person won't allow them money for repairs so they are reliant on first person for lifts to work and are collected at the end of day.

Second person not allowed haircuts or new clothes apparently parents don't need this and they are very selfish to want things for themself.

First person has pawned second persons belongings including highly sentimental gifts from family.

First person meets second person on lunch break everyday - to eat together, second person not allowed to say no.

If second person tries to disagree, they are shouted and sworn at.

Is this in your eyes abuse? I know what I think but it is my relatives relationship and I don't know if I am just frustrated I feel like I have lost them.

OP posts:
Aria2015 · 05/07/2020 14:17

Yes it's 100% an abusive and controlling relationship.

namechange12a · 05/07/2020 14:20

Yes it's abusive.

Original poster
TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 14:21

Yes. That is what I thought.
My huge problem is, and I didn't put this first because I didn't want to sway opinion, is that the second person is my big brother, who was always the one who looked after me and now it is going to be so hard to look after him and try and help him get out of this god awful situation.

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 05/07/2020 14:22

Yes of course it is

MikeUniformMike · 05/07/2020 14:23

OP, could you somehow get Women's Aid number to your relative?
Maybe slip it in something you can hand her without arousing suspicion?

namechange12a · 05/07/2020 14:24

He could contact the Men's Advice Line for further help and information.

MikeUniformMike · 05/07/2020 14:25

Cross post sorry.

Original poster
TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 14:25

@mikeuniformMike
That is what I would do. But the 'victim' god I hate that word is my brother, I can't actually comprehend it is happening to him.

OP posts:
Original poster
TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 14:30

Thanks namechange, I hadn't seen that one. I have seen mankind. I need to be able to get to him without her, the only thing I can think is to go to his place of work with a "family emergency" and take him somewhere before she arrives for lunch or to collect him.
I thought about getting him another phone so he can contact us but he is scared she will find it. I only know what I know now from fleeting conversation last week while she went to the toilet.
He knows it isn't right but doesn't want to lose his kids.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 05/07/2020 14:31

It's like all abusive relationships. It starts with small reasonable steps, then a little more because they get so upset when x happens, you know I get upset when y so ...

And before you know it you aren't allowed to do anything.

picklemewalnuts · 05/07/2020 14:32

How old are the children?

picklemewalnuts · 05/07/2020 14:33

Sorry, I've just seen

WitsEnding · 05/07/2020 14:34

It sounds as if second person only has the opportunity to ask for help when at work. If there is a union, I would approach them even if he is not a member - both union and HR should have a domestic violence policy nowadays, and this sort of abuse would be covered.

At a very minimum ask work if he can use their phone/internet and set up alternative bank account, the aid organisations can help him do this with scant documentation.

namechange12a · 05/07/2020 14:40

Get him without her and do what exactly? He obviously doesn't want to leave or he would have already. He's probably right and she sounds like the type to make up stuff in order to keep him away from his children. He needs legal advice, he needs to start collating evidence of the abuse: text messages, messages, incidents, arguments. There's an app he can download called Brightsky where he can record audio and video, journal events and he can get info on local organisations. Here's some info on finding legal advice.

DaisyRaisin · 05/07/2020 14:50

Its extraordinarily abusive. Your brother is not being afforded the same freedoms as a prisoner. It must difficult to watch. He has to start keeping a diary, start talking to people about what's happening. If she loses control then things could turn nasty . I wouldn't underestimate someone who is that controlling at all.

Original poster
TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 15:02

You're right @namechange12a he doesn't want to leave because as he said to our younger brother "seeing my girls every morning is the only thing worth waking up for" it breaks my heart, he is a shadow of the man he was even 2 or 3 years ago.
I just suppose I have to wait for him to be ready to leave but it is so hard to watch him change, and be afraid to speak.

OP posts:
namechange12a · 05/07/2020 15:05

It's very, very hard watching someone you love being abused. His children are also being abused and they are learning that this is what a relationship is and so the cycle goes on.

OhTheRoses · 05/07/2020 15:11

Who owns the house. What is she holding over him. Why on earth can't he open a bank account and have his salary paid into it? Why can't he get himself a phone?

There has to be more to this.

DorsetCamping · 05/07/2020 15:15

Have you gently broached the subject with your DB?

DaisyRaisin · 05/07/2020 15:21

@OhTheRoses

There is more to this

Abusive relationships are incredibly complicated and the abuser traps the victim by using a variety of manipulation tactics.

It's not as simple as saying "what is she holding over him". Although one thing she is clearly holding over him is his relationship to his children.

This man isn't being weak by not leaving, any more than an abused woman is weak for not leaving. It's vile what some people do to others, it really is.

Ohnoherewego62 · 05/07/2020 15:23

My goodness.

Is he physically safe? Definitely emotional and controlling aspects here. Why is he so scared? Has she threatened him?

It sounds as if he is asking for help by telling you.

Yousureaboutthat · 05/07/2020 15:28

What you can do OP is give your brother support and information to enable him to break free of her hold over him. It is very difficult for a 'victim' to leave an abusive relationship because they have been living with it for so long and they fear the consequences of doing so. But supply him with information, contacts for agencies which offer support, websites to look at while at work, and a way to contact you (possibly from work; phone he keeps there, alternative email account or something). He also needs to document everything that's happening and keep a diary. If he can access support through work (employee assistance programme maybe?) then he should do so.
Slowly he needs to try to break free of this

sunshinesheila · 05/07/2020 15:37

Maybe if he or you speak to his employer you could chat to him on a work phone number during working hours. I as a manager would absolutely support this and do anything I could to help him ie leave to see a solicitor for advice or whatever he needs to do on the down low.

Original poster
TennisButterfly · 05/07/2020 16:04

@ohtheroses
Not sure who owns the house, would have assumed they both needed to to get a mortgage. He can't open a bank account as she keeps their paperwork "safe".
There may well be more to it but as he has only let us know how bad things have got over lockdown I can only assume that being with her 24hrs a day no breaks has had an effect.

@ohnoherewego62

I think he must be physically safe, although my mum is worried sick that he isn't. From what he has said he is scared of her taking the kids away. That seems to be the 'thing' she has over him.
I think he is asking for help too, it must take a lot of courage for a man to admit.

Everyone else thanks for your advice, I know all I can do is provide information and wait, I think he knows it isn't right, he wouldn't have told us if he thought it was ok. It is so different to how we were brought up our parents are still very happily married after 40+ years he has a good example. I think the situation just got away from him and now he is stuck.

OP posts:
LordOftheRingz · 05/07/2020 16:09

The issue is the longer it goes on the weaker he will become, and his mental health will be under severe strain, then what use will he be for his kids. He might just have to be brave and face the risk of not being with the kids, if he thinks they are under risk of emotional abuse he needs to tell SS. Then take it to court.