Never been part of a friendship group.

[Whisperywords]

This really.
It bothers me a lot.
I've seen women I used to go to school with continue their close-knit groups into their thirties. I've been on the side-lines of many groups, but never quite "made it." At school I used to eat my lunch with the same group of friends every day, I remember inviting them to my 16th birthday party and none of them ever inviting me to theirs. I'd been on the side-lines of their group since primary school.
I tried making friends with trouble-maker groups then, but just wasn't trouble enough.
I used to go clubbing with a different group of school friends then around the time of my 17th birthday, but never properly gelled with them either. There was no space for me in their limo to the prom, so I ended up going with the trouble makers, despite spending no time at all with them at the prom itself.
In my 20s, I made friends with a completely different friend from school and had by this point, friends I'd met at college and university, but still no group as such. I watched my previous friends become bridemaids for each other. Still, at 35, I've never been a bridesmaid.
I've had different circles of friends since but basically, always been a bit of a wanderer. DH has had one set of friends all his life. Hes 40. They've holidayed together, been each others ushers and god-fathers.
I'm still wandering and have a handful of friends from different times of my life. I still don't have a best friend and doubt I'd ever be a bridesmaid for any of them should they need one.
It makes me sad.
Where have I gone wrong?

[wifflewafflebiscuit]

[quote FridaKFangirl]@wifflewafflebiscuit I think our situations sound really similar.

I bet if you asked any of my friends they’d point to how I ‘seem to know everyone’... and I am extremely sociable!

But very few of those I know would think to call or message me to arrange to do something...

Love the idea of a Tier 2 club! [/quote]
Yes exactly - I know everyone and people come to me to find people with certain skills or links. But would never invite me to a bbq.
Its not that I feel sorry for myself, I have a nice life, but I do get jealous sometimes and it does get me down sometimes.
I thought it was just me. Sounds like there are a lot of us and @Whisperywords was able to put in words in a way I never have.
Tier 2 ladies unite!

[goteam]

It's not always at it seems. I was sort of part of a friendship group of around 6 in my early 20's and kind of got pushed out by the mother hen type a few years later. She has pushed another out too since and it's basically a case of submissive personality types and dominant and the submissive dont stand up to her. The dominant one in that group of friends is actually monumentally dull but is an organiser and bossy so decides who goes to what and who is invited. She bitches about one member of the group who knows it but is 'happy to be included'. Also, the two 'best friends' in the group actually have quite a toxic and controlling relationship with the submissive one treading on eggshells and having to flatter the dominant one all the time and they basically dont have a laugh together but a tedious dependent relationship. I think a lot of groups are like this. Stay friends because they have always been friends and to feel like part of something rather than really wanting to hang out. I am still close to 2 of the group and one of them doesnt consider the bossy one a close friend at all but is just too nice to ditch the group and is kind of happy to go along with it without placing much value on the group. Bossy one considers her a v close friend and the group her 'girls'. Smoke and mirrors.

I have never has a close knit group either but I think I get annoyed by people quite easily and wouldn't be friends with someone who had right wing views for instance. I think some group of friends ignore negative attributes for the sake of 'the group'. I have seen this happen.

I had a close college group but drifted and take a lot of responsibility as I often find it an effort to stay in touch and am an introvert. I do sometimes wish I was part of a group but you never know the reality when you see a group of friends together. I was also out in pubs and clubs sandwich gigs, festivals etc with friends in my teens, 20's and 30's and when I look back at photos there are only a few I still see. To an observer we probably looked like a tight knit group of old friends.

Also, things like hen nights doesn't always have to be a close knit group of old school friends. I had a random group of 8 at mine. One old college friend, one from university, two from house shares, couple of work friends etc and it was great.

[goteam]

*and gigs. Not sure where the sandwich came from....

[goteam]

@KetoWinnie you hit the nail on the head with your comment about having a strong sense of self. My bossy ex friend uses other peoples personalities to bolster. She has no hobbies and relies on the group. In our 20's she used to chat up arty men with lines like 'my best friend is an artist' referring to one if the group who is an artist and was kind of a sponge for their personalities to boost her her own which was lacking, actually she very much uses people. I prefer to be friends with people because I like their company but that often means smaller groups or 1-1 friendships. I think I have quite a strong sense of self and am self sufficient. OP you probably are too.

It is hard sometimes though. Like yours, my DH still has his close group of school friends but even then he is sometimes like 'I see X and Y went to the pub and didnt invite me'. Sometimes there is less flexibility with a solid group as you feel you have to invite everyone to everything.

[SilverOtter]

@wifflewafflebiscuit I think the Tier 2 Club is a fab idea!

[KetoWinnie]

@goteam I've spent some time thinking about this over the last 5 years (and also reading what information is available - it's limited). Luckily the two incidents were a couple of years apart or I would have gone mad!

But people who try to squeeze you out of a group are, in my opinion, The Charming Bully, their response to stress/fear/competition is a hybrid of Fight! Fawn! (Pete Walker CPTSD, but relevant to any perceived threat)

My own reaction to fear, threat or stress is Freeze, so I really have to go against my natural grain not to disappear in to myself and just give up and withdraw when these charming bully types set out to squeeze me out of a group.

The person who did this to me most recently, she in no way could be jealous of me. Literally not possible. She has a better more secure job which she got on her qualifications (I don't even have a degree). She lives in a bigger, nicer house in better area! She's married. She has a child. I'm a single parent! And yet and yet and yet......... I think there's something about my common decency and independence that triggers her. She wants to place me neatly beneath her on a social / intellectual hierarchy that exists in her head. And if I respect this virtual hierarchy that exists in her head, then she can be ok to me, as she is mostly busy kissing UP. (I'm not up). But the outright nastiness started when I defended a small boundary and I suppose that signalled to her that I didn't see myself as clearly beneath her.

This all sounds a bit intense to people who haven't been through it. But although now I do have boundaries, I guess there is something about my demeanour which is still a little apologetic for having a boundary. The Charming Fight! Fawn! Bully will pick up on that.

If you tell people they'll mostly say ''oh she's jealous!'' but it's not that.
It's that combination of you being beneath her on her virtual social hierarchy and so therefore unable to provide her with any validation and yet, having the fucking balls and cheek (as she would see it) to defend a small boundary. They don't see it as defending a boundary. They see it as a threat to their social status.

I feel like I understand this much better now. It tormented me the first time it happened. Somebody sees you as a threat for their place. THEY have ranked themself and they see you as the closest ranking person and therefore you are the threat to them, even if all you want for the group is cohesive harmony and from everybody to feel safe and included.

I don't know what the answer is. I am secure in myself now but there are other people who need a lot of validation from a group or from their friends and if you have a low social capital in their eyes, you're useless to them. Being a single parent I think some validation-hungry assholes see me as unable to give them any status, so I'm ''down''. And if you kiss up, you kick down.

This is eye opening. I cannot people pushing 50 can behave in this way but a few vaccuums are out there living what looks like a very fulfilling life and yet they will still go to strange lengths that compromise whatever integrity they think they have to exclude somebody who poses no threat to them.

I think I handled it better the second time than I did the first and that is a comfort. The first time after a year of her ignoring me but fawning over everybody else I flipped when I was about to sit down at work and she told me ''so and so is sitting there''. So I didn't cover myself in glory. She got to swan about delighted that everybody saw me snap at her!

Second time, I handled it better. I did not challenge her. I didn't get upset. I just thought to myself well god help you, making me the lightening rod for your issues at your age, but i just withdrew a bit, but carried on talking individually to other people.

So relieved that I finally understand the dynamics of this crap now!

[Buddywoo]

I never had a best friend until I was in my sixties. I was always someones second best friend, never first. I used to feel hurt about this until I met the woman who became my best friend. That was wonderful for about three years, and then I became bored.
I am an introvert, happy in my own company socialising occasionally. It has taken me all these years to realise this. I have also realised that I don't put the work in necessary to keep friendships alive. So now I take whatever level of friendship that is on offer and don't fret about it. When it's over it's over.

[chunkyrun]

Not been to a wedding since my teens. Few friends but not best friends. Would love to be part of a group but it's obviously not for me.

[Lurkingforawhile]

Same too - I think shows like Sex and the City and Friends make us think it's normal, but clearly it's not! The only thing that bothers me is never having been a bridesmaid. That probably sounds really trivial but it makes me sad. I've only ever been on one hen do as well.

[cyclingmad]

I do alot of events and been in many big groups and left them all because what happens is that you end up having to compromise your boundaries and values even beliefs to fit into the group.

As previous posters say, people just allow it to happen to stay part of the group. There is always that one alpha in the group and what I experienced is that they felt threatened by me because I wasn't afraid to say hey i don't really agree with that...

Honestly I don't want those people in my life you end up realising how insecure they are, how needy they become and how hypocritical the groul become...being vocal about how bitxhijg is bad and we should all be nice to each other, than bitching about someone this one girl would come crying to me about how her 'bf' was kissing a girl she had allowed to stay in their room when only 3hrs before she had been kissing another guy its so energy draining

What I realised that in groups I've ever been in it just reverts back to being in a schoolground again...like you never grew up out of all that shite

Thats is why I don't bother no more I have a few friends I can open up to but we are just busy so can't hang all the time but always there on phone when need be. It is no longer how often we meet up or hang out either. I have friends who are my hobby friends those who like cycling that ill mainly talk about that with, books, music etc. So I end up knowing lots of people.

And that is fine and good enough for me. I realise I'm always the one people come to for emotional needs so now I peorect how much of myself I give to a person

[FridaKFangirl]

I think how much of an issue/how it makes you feel is based on a number of factors.

I'm a classic extrovert, in that I get my energy from being around people, hence I have built myself a wide 'social circle'.

It's the depth of friendship (or lack thereof) that bothers me...

[LittleMissnotLittleMrs]

I have friendly colleagues. I have one hobby but no-one I keep in random touch with. No friends from secondary school. One v good friend who was amazing when I was ill. She lives a ferry + long car journey away. I’m single, only child, elderly parents and an 18yo cat. I get it. I don’t know how to change it.

[SavannahKT]

Well, what I can say is that not all that glitters is gold...I am/was part of a group of friends (most of them I have been friends with for over 15 years), but sadly many of them disappeared some months ago when I announced I was pregnant. Luckily I have one best friend, she’s always there for me and vice versa, even though we don’t see each other every day.

[anyoldname76]

Same for me too, it bothered me a lot when I was younger but not so much now, I think the turning point came when I realised I was a 'mum' friend and not a proper friend to a woman I had grown close to through our children. I'm just past it all now.

[Neverending2020]

@KetoWinnie Brilliantly put! Agree with every word.

[goteam]

@cyclingmad yes I was always the only one to disagree with the alpha. Alpha is also very insecure and needy. In fact @KetoWinnie in your example she definitely is the Charming Bully archetype (all 'sweetie' this on Facebook with 10 kisses then saying 'I really find X hard work, can we not invite her to X' behind their back.). Also she used me to get close to a male friend of mine, they went out for a couple of months before he dumped her as she is a nightmare. V paranoid and insecure. I think I was no longer useful at that point and as soon as I met DH she was very jealous and the friendship dwindled and I was firmly out of the 'group' by then but still friends with her through other friends (not the 'girls'!) finally ditching her completely in my early 30's. What she gets from the group of friends deep down is a feeling of superiority as they have none of the things she places value on - money, big house, rich husband. She is now married and thought the new husband was rich but she was pregnant before she realised he wasn't - just flash. But a complete doormat so probably very happy together! I hear gossip from a mutual friend who dorsnt seem to particularly like her either but is not a ditching friends type and is more accepting of people's negative aspects. Her DH hates her though and sees her for what she is.

[GrannyBags]

I was the same - still am in many ways. When I was 40 I decided not to bother trying to fit in anymore and just be me. When I was 46 I met a woman who quickly became my best friend and in many ways the sister I never had. She had never fitted in to a group either.
Just be yourself and don’t worry about the others x

[Phthalo]

Me too. No-one to call if something goes wrong, I’m no-one’s number one and even my best friend (really just my oldest friend) - we refer to each other as best friends but she’s a lot closer to a lot more people it seems and I think she’s changed a lot since we were 7 but our relationship hasn’t if you know what I mean? We are at very different stages of life too.

At school I was always acquaintances with everyone, nice to everyone, never bitchy, was funny and well liked but it turns onto that if you’re nice to everyone then you’re never anyone’s first choice. I’ve got a 5 year old now and have been pondering how to raise him to not be like that, because I want him to have some close lifelong friends. I think I should have been consciously more selective but never want to leave anyone out and make them feel the way I felty. Luckily so far he seems to be taking after his dad and doing well! But I will be terrible at friendship advice if he ever needs it!

[goteam]

Sorry for the lack of paragraphs!

[Phthalo]

Also on a related note, my son was put in the mixed bubble after corona virus (so with a new teacher and kids he didn’t know, whereas majority were in their normal class with his previous teacher who he LOVED) and I think it’s because he’s a good boy, weLL behaved, resilient. And it just made me realise that all my life I’ve not made a fuss, and that gets you volunteered for the shit end of the stick a lot of the time! Not exactly related to the OP but same kind of side of my personality, it seems to tie in. Ugh. It’s funny because in some areas of my life I’m very headstrong! FIL hates me because he can’t control me, for example 😂

[itsureis]

In my early 20's, I was a last minute bridesmaids choice to a friend whom I'd know since I was 3yrs old.
Her other choices were friends in her year group at school, I was a year younger.
I organised her hen parties, went for dress fittings with her and did all the duties that were expected on the day whereas the maids didn't do anything and one even left the party early !
Fast forward 20yrs from then and I've since moved away from the area.
Whenever I went back home, she would be the first person I would visit, always ask if she was free for dinner/ drinks but nothing from her.
One time I asked her out for a drink, just the two of us, as I wanted to speak 1 to 1. She made an excuse that another friend of hers was joining us ... I must have looked disappointed but what could I do. When I was talking with her friend, she told me that J had begged her come out ! I was gutted thinking that she didn't even want to spend one evening with me.
So I wouldn't worry about the bridesmaid thing .... as sometimes they are as important as you think !
But I'm also on the outside of friendship groups - I could count on 2 fingers the close friends I have and still they can let me down but I know if I need them they would be there in a heartbeat.

[wifflewafflebiscuit]

I love this thread. Some of the stories about groups you have been in makes me realise its not all its cracked up to be and maybe I'm not missing out as much as I thought.

And the bit about strength of character is really interesting.

And fangirl I'm the same, I love people but am saddened by the superficiality of so much of it.

[Phthalo]

Another thing is, my parents and sister both seem to have a big group of friends so that makes me feel even weirder 😄 my parents have lots of big parties eg for their anniversaries. They both have friends they’ve know since they were 4. They even met each other when they were 4 and 6 years old! So you’d think it would be natural for me to have close, long term friends.

Wow now I feel even more of a freak 😁

[goteam]

@Phthalo have always been like that too, hate leaving people out but you're right it does mean you are nobodys first choice. The group that pushed me out thrive on a sense of exclusivity and purposefully leaving people out. Nothing is worth doing if they dont post 'Cannot wat to see you, tagged friend A, tagged friend B and tagged friend C at X, it's going to be amazing' with loads of comments about how great it will be etc. Having been friends with them I know whatever it is will be shit and actually friend A and friend B dont really get on and most friends in that group dont see each other 1-1 as they actually have nothing to talk about.

Its all about the clique and trying to get people to think they have a great social life (well this is what Alpha wants to project and the others know the drill...). Having been friends with Alpha friend for 10 years I know the amount of such social media posts from her is directly related to an unhappy romantic life...

Agree with @GrannyBags just be yourself

[perfumeistooexpensive]

I don't belong to a friendship group and neither does my DH. We are happy to socialise with family. I joined a fitness class several years ago and was thrilled to make friends with some of the women and be invited to the pub etc. Then someone new came along and I realised that I was being frozen out. Nights out with everyone but me posted on SM by the newcomer. It became more and more obvious. I had a big birthday and it was totally ignored and yet everyone else had a big fuss made on theirs, surprise parties etc. I had a bad breakdown and will never try to make friends again. I get enough invitations from family and I have a wonderful DH. I'm lucky to have them. I don't understand why I was pushed out, but their loss. I'm better off now, looking back at that awful time. OP don't stress over it, life can be great without these groups.