Never been part of a friendship group.

[Whisperywords]

This really.
It bothers me a lot.
I've seen women I used to go to school with continue their close-knit groups into their thirties. I've been on the side-lines of many groups, but never quite "made it." At school I used to eat my lunch with the same group of friends every day, I remember inviting them to my 16th birthday party and none of them ever inviting me to theirs. I'd been on the side-lines of their group since primary school.
I tried making friends with trouble-maker groups then, but just wasn't trouble enough.
I used to go clubbing with a different group of school friends then around the time of my 17th birthday, but never properly gelled with them either. There was no space for me in their limo to the prom, so I ended up going with the trouble makers, despite spending no time at all with them at the prom itself.
In my 20s, I made friends with a completely different friend from school and had by this point, friends I'd met at college and university, but still no group as such. I watched my previous friends become bridemaids for each other. Still, at 35, I've never been a bridesmaid.
I've had different circles of friends since but basically, always been a bit of a wanderer. DH has had one set of friends all his life. Hes 40. They've holidayed together, been each others ushers and god-fathers.
I'm still wandering and have a handful of friends from different times of my life. I still don't have a best friend and doubt I'd ever be a bridesmaid for any of them should they need one.
It makes me sad.
Where have I gone wrong?

[kerryw1992]

Hi,
I think this is so common, it's honestly not just you at all!
I feel a bit like this too, I've got people I speak to but I don't really feel that I've found the right fit yet if you know what I mean!
Have you tried a friends app?
Ive tried peanut and I was really skeptical at first but I've met some people on there who I actually really get on with!
It's basically tinder for mums 😂
peanut.app.link/yORwALobN7

Hope this helps, it's free so worth a shot 🤷‍♀️ x

[Whisperywords]

@VioletGrace I think you have a point about those with more friends being more sought after.
I once did a little experiment, I had a week where I had a lot of social meet-ups planned and I decided to post about them on SM (wouldn't usually) just to see if this made other "friends" want to meet up with me. I'd long suspected this theory.
It was a huge surprise to suddenly receive lots of messages from people wanting to meet up and socialise.
People don't like missing out. So, if it seems like you're the person everyone wants to socialise with, they want to get involved too!
Also, if you're someone who posts about meet-ups on SM, I think it rallies up more friends. I'm not someone who likes to post about my whereabouts on SM personally.

[Cam2020]

I often find the group of friends from school thing a little odd/habitual/forced sometimes. Most people change a fair amount throughout their lives, some friendships last, but many don't. I wonder how many of them would be friends if they hadn't met when they were young? Would they still choose them as close friends of they met as adults? I think a lot of the time, it is familiarity and loyalty that keeps them together.

I drifted from my group of school friends. I'm 'friends' on SM with many of them and while they seem like nice people (and some have stayed friends in smaller groups), they're just not 'my' people anymore.

I have lots of friends that I've picked up here and there, been part of bigger groups along the way but they dissolve more often than not, because people change, people fall out and actually its often not realistic. If you scratch the surface x has a problem y and secretly finds z irritating etc. I have two groups - one of three (formed as freshers at uni) the other of five (we worked together in our late 20s) and the others are all individuals. My uni friends have basically grown in a similar direction and kept similar principles/interests and the five from work are a, pretty stable unit as, we met as fully fledged adults and have not changed an awful lot.

[FridaKFangirl]

@HouseBeforeMarriage

Many years ago, this exact situation (with ExDP) led to me posting a bit of a 'socialising' post on Gumtree or some such. I did actually meet a nice group of girls and we all hung out fairly regularly for about a year before we started drifting as people left London, got married, had babies etc...

I'm not suggesting you do the same! It just sparked a memory. Is there anything you can do that you enjoy?

[HouseBeforeMarriage]

I’m feeling a despondent today because dp is off away for a weekend with a couple of friends (for a post-lockdown permitted activity) and I can’t help feeling envious that I don’t have anything like that ever happening for me.

[Mangofandangoo]

I was never part of a big group of friends. I do however have several good friends who I spend time with individually.

I was on the edge of a friendship group once ( as I was friends with one of the girls) as an outsider all I noticed was how much they bitched about one another and that's not really my thing

[goteam]

@VioletGrace I honestly think the key word there is 'seems'. An ex friend of mine, the bossy alpha type I mentioned in previous posts is addicted to social media and tagging but is actually very socially awkward especially with clever or witty people and gets out of her depth easily. The friendship group she controls are all kind of 'trained' to tag her to boost her ego and only post flattering photos etc. I found out later that the reason she facilitated ousting me from the group is because she really valued me on a one to one level. Sod that though, isolating me from other friends to have her to myself and manipulating people like that. Of the remaining group of 5 there are only 2 she likes, the rest are to look popular. Worst thing is they kind of know that but their desire to belong and look popular supersedes that so they all go along with it. Social media is all about presenting yourself and your life the way you want to. I know we all know that but it does sometimes get me down too.

[VioletGrace]

@goteam that's so true about people marketing themselves as friend material on social media.

A neighbour of mine always checks in at places on FB and tags every single person that she's there with that is on her friends list, for example a wedding reception, or a dinner and dance type event, or even an MLM sales evening party at someone's house. It seems to work as she seems really popular

[goteam]

@RhubarbTea that's exactly right about Facebook and people making an effort only when you look popular. I also have friends like that who come out of the woodwork when I have been tagged at an interesting looking party or something. My closest friends who I spend the most time with don't use Facebook but I often think the constant tagging people and cataloguing nights out is about 'marketing' yourself as friend material. I guess I did this in my 20's - photos of every night out but kind of grew out of it. I have wonderful regular nights out with two close ex-colleagues and other friends but because it isn't on social media my other friends have no idea. I'm sure if it was my social value would increase!

[VioletGrace]

@RhubarbTea

I was thinking the same thing today as well *@VioletGrace* - great minds eh? Although just in terms of the fact that is is easier to make more friends when you already have some. In the same way that it's easier to get a job if you're already in one. Object scarcity and human nature being what it is means that if something seems to be highly prized and hard to find, everyone wants it. Without fail. The same goes for people. A kind of snowball effect I suppose. And would explain why those rather bitchy but surrounded by friends types just end up with yet MORE friends.

I have a friend who will ignore me for long periods on and offline, but the minute I post something which indicates in any way I have spent fulfilling enjoyable social time with friends, she immediately comments 'Love you loads' or 'Catchup soon?? Miss you!!' It drives me batshit crazy.

I know if I had more friends who used FB and were very gushy about me, I would make more friends off the back of that because people think if everyone likes something (or someone) it must be good. My friends are often quiet, don't use Facebook or whatever so others don't see that I am liked by some people and it sort of ends in a downward friendship spiral.
God I need to get off social media...

I totally agree with everything you have said, Rhubarb!

An acquaintance of mine has lots of groups of friends; a group from childhood, a group from high school, a group from her job, groups of mum friends from each of her kids' school years, etc. She isn't an awful person but isn't a particularly great person (very self absorbed, doesn't listen to anyone else, dominates conversation, very gossipy), but other friends of her friends all clamour to be her friend and gush over her, simply because she seems to popular.

[RhubarbTea]

I was thinking the same thing today as well @VioletGrace - great minds eh? Although just in terms of the fact that is is easier to make more friends when you already have some. In the same way that it's easier to get a job if you're already in one. Object scarcity and human nature being what it is means that if something seems to be highly prized and hard to find, everyone wants it. Without fail. The same goes for people. A kind of snowball effect I suppose. And would explain why those rather bitchy but surrounded by friends types just end up with yet MORE friends.

I have a friend who will ignore me for long periods on and offline, but the minute I post something which indicates in any way I have spent fulfilling enjoyable social time with friends, she immediately comments 'Love you loads' or 'Catchup soon?? Miss you!!' It drives me batshit crazy.

I know if I had more friends who used FB and were very gushy about me, I would make more friends off the back of that because people think if everyone likes something (or someone) it must be good. My friends are often quiet, don't use Facebook or whatever so others don't see that I am liked by some people and it sort of ends in a downward friendship spiral.
God I need to get off social media...

[HowFastIsTooFast]

You're not alone OP! I've been in a 'tight' group of friends once, and actually in hindsight the whole group was held together by bitching about whichever one that wasn't there on a given day. Not a great atmosphere to be in and not real friends at all, which they later proved without a shadow of a doubt.


Now I'm part of a few different friendship groups but I'm on the outer edges of all of them. I'm not in the inner circle of one because I don't have kids, of another because I'm not single and so on. Still, these women are all kind and supportive and would be there if I needed them (as I am for them) so I'd much rather that than being best buds with the Mean Girls again 🤷🏼‍♀️

[FridaKFangirl]

Really interesting points @VioletGrace! I think that element of longevity being a-list is quite likely

[VioletGrace]

I've been mulling this thread over and another point to add to my posts from yesterday is that I think women who have a good group of childhood friends to fall back on seem to be more popular with others they meet and have more luck making other friends and groups of friends. Possibly because they don't 'need' any other friends as such and so that makes them more sought after? If the childhood group of mates is quite a large group then the person will always have meet ups and social events to go to, which makes them look really busy to new people that they meet, and then makes others want the busy person to fit them into their lives too. Hope this makes sense!

In my case, I had a nice group of childhood friends that I'd known since preschool days, and we lived in a nice area where people were mostly friendly and open to being friends with others. After one year of secondary school we moved to a town 100 miles away, a much rougher area where only local people were welcome and you were just treated as an outsider if you'd not lived there forever. Add that onto the fact that everyone had been at secondary school for a year before I joined, and all had their little groups, and you can imagine how easy it was for me to make friends! Not very!!

I did make some friends in the end who mostly weren't that nice to me thoroughout secondary school, and none of them were very decent really.

Of course, I have made friends in adulthood, but I do think that people tend to have their childhood friends as their A-List friends, eg have them as bridesmaids and godparents to their kids, prioritise spare time to spend with them over other friends, value their friendship more, etc.

[itchaftershaving]

You are not alone at all and there is nothing wrong with you. I moved countries away from my friends and even though we chatted on the phone a lot in the beginning, it has now fizzled out. I have lived in a small town buzzing with people for 5 years now and not made a single friend no matter how much I try. My dd is in school now and I've only just started getting to know another mum and been on a few play dates but I get the sense she wouldn't take it further than our dc having play dates. I feel like an outsider in general

[Whisperywords]

@VioletGrace I agree with this.

Yes I agree. The popular women often seem to have been spoilt. They seem to give off an aura of superiority that makes people eager to please them and be important to them.

My parents weren't great and I had to become very self-sufficient from a young age. As an adult, I can't rely on my parents at all.

[VioletGrace]

[quote FridaKFangirl]@VioletGrace So much of what you said rings true. I’ve a wide circle of friends but never would be thar first, unequivocal choice.[/quote]
It's hurtful to never be the first choice isn't it. I'm always the Reserve Friend,I feel.

To add to my earlier post, popular women also often seem to be the type who have been indulged and spoilt by parents in childhood and continue to be so as an adult. They have a sense of expecting the world to revolve around them, and so it does.

The most popular girl in my friendship group at school (of which I was always on the edge) was totally spoilt by her parents, and was an utter nasty cow. Still is, if her FB is anything to go by.....

[FridaKFangirl]

*that

[FridaKFangirl]

@VioletGrace So much of what you said rings true. I’ve a wide circle of friends but never would be thar first, unequivocal choice.

[VioletGrace]

I, too, am always a second tier friend. On the surface I appear to have lots of friends but I doubt that any of them, if asked who their best friend was, would name me. I also doubt that I would be the first name mentioned by any of them if, say, they were choosing friends to invite on a night out or to a party. I certainly don't have friends that gush over me as most others seem to have.

In my experience, I have found that to stand out and be really sought after as a friend, it really takes someone who isn't a nice person, or who is extremely confident and self absorbed, and then others all fawn over them, hang on their every word and are so keen to get their approval.

One of the most popular women that I know is not a particularly nice person; she is very in love with herself and acts as though she is better than others, yet has people clamouring to be her friend. When she had her second child a couple of years ago, friends organised THREE baby showers for her! Three!! I've had three kids and have not had a single baby shower arranged for me! She also married a wealthy man and has had various cosmetics procedures done, and brags a lot, and I think all of her friends look up to her and want to be her.

I think if you're a fairly normal, decent person it's hard to be a top tier friend.

[honeylulu]

This is pretty much me too. I have a small group of local friends (who are great - there are 4 of us) and a handful of other good friends (well, 3). I have had to really really work at this though and make lots of effort as I'm someone who just gets overlooked otherwise.

My teenage son was diagnosed with ASD last year and now on ADHD pathway and it dawned on me that I almost certainly have both too. On paper I seem to be a lovely person and ideal friend but socially my wavelength is a bit off (and then I get shy or anxious) and people think i am weird/hard work/ annoying/boring. It is evident that even my own mother feels this way about me:(

Primary school - had a best friend - she was always MY best friend. I was not always hers. It was a very small school so whole year groups tended to play together so its hard to say if I was in a friendship group but, thinking about it I was often awkwardly on the periphery and often didn't get party invitations.

Secondary school. I did become part of a group of 6 early on but in later years it evolved and I didn't! Other members of the group made friendships with other individuals or groups outside ours but I had no idea how. I did have a best friend within the group but by the end of school she was best friends with someone else (I wasn't).

I joined a church youth group - most of them were cooler and more streetwise. Again I was on the periphery. I was (boast alert) quite pretty and went out with some of the guys. Most of the kudos I had came from being so and so's girlfriend. When the group shut down I barely saw them though they still hung out together.

Made contact with one of the school group who hadn't stayed for 6th form and we used to go out to pubs and gigs. However if her sister was around, or she got a boyfriend I wouldn't see her for dust. I had several boyfriends during this time though a lot of the time I felt that I'd rather be hanging out with a group of friends but I didn't have one!

Uni - Made lots of acquaintances in the first term, went to everything I was invited to, made lots of effort. Joined up with an established group and was so happy. I then got together with the alpha male of the group, great at first but soon after I became invisible, just X's girlfriend. He was an extrovert and I wasn't. I tried really hard to forge closer bonds with others within the group but my perceived awkwardness and desperation was off putting I think. We left uni, we split and the group kept in touch with him and apart from one tried to drop me.

Workplaces, similar stories. I made one lovely friend at my last firm (still friends today), and a few acquaintances along the way. I wouldn't say I have any friends at my current firm though I have tried. I am senior now (and married with a family) so it bothers me less than when I was a junior and getting left out of drinks and get togethers that people arranged weekly. When I did go I seemed like a fish out of water.

My group of friends I have now were acquired through a lady I met at ante natal group with ny eldest. I really liked her and put in lots of effort to keep in touch. This approach often scared people off but she took to me, luckily. The other two in the group were already her established friends. It is a lovely group but even so I reckon if they were each to rank their favourite people in the group I would rank last. At one point someone else joined the group and tried to freeze me out. This went on for some months until she dropped out again. At another point I proudly introduced another friend into the group who promptly dropped me like a stone once she'd met my cooler friends!

I'm ok with it now and its reassuring to read threads like this and know I'm not the only one. It does make laugh when people post about disloyal friends and mumsnet says "just make some new friends". If it was that easy we'd be doing it already!

[Stressmess]

@whisperywords so much of what you said is true for me too. The original group which I posted about earlier, the girl who would be the organiser and the leader of the group would have lots of different groups of friends from different places and would never be short of anyone to go out with. She can be incredibly charismatic but has no qualms about using people to get what she wants. She has done it to me and I have seen it done to others too.

I am tier 2 friend too. Recently I take my child to swimming lessons and made a friend I thought with another Mum. Children go to the same School, we live in same area and we seemed to have a lot in common. I really looked forward to seeing her because I felt like we connected and it just wasn't pleasant chit chat. I opened up to her. Then she started to get in with a group of women and I was completely phased out. So yes being a friend until someone better comes along, yes that is me too unfortunately.

[Mittens030869]

I was in a friendship group at uni, but they eventually all ghosted me, though they're quite clearly friends with each other still. However, I also made a very close friendship with another student and we've been close ever since. My DH and I went to her 25th wedding anniversary; her DH is a Frenchman she met during her third year of a French degree in France. I went to their wedding, and then later she and her family came to our wedding.

I heave other close friends from different times in my life, as I've moved about a lot, though not for the last 15 years, and I have a few close friends here.

Your post also made me think of my DDs. DD1 (now 11) struggles to get close friends because she doesn't really connect at a deep level; her classmates like her but she's only been invited to one party since starting Key Stage 2. DD2 (now 8) by contrast has very close friendships at school and used to get invited to parties and play dates regularly. It's made lockdown a real torture for her.

Interestingly, though, DD1 has much more interest in activities outside the home; she's doing guides now, and has always loved their pack holidays. She also loves after school activities. It really doesn't bother her all that much that she doesn't have close friendships, though she does get jealous of DD2 sometimes and clings to her too hard, which DD2 resents sometimes. They're both adopted, but birth siblings.

My point is that everyone is different. I used to find the lack of a close friendship group sad, especially at school, but I now witness DD2 falling out with friends constantly and making up with them. It's honestly exhausting to watch!

Another thing I've learned is that if you really want to make close friends, you have to be proactive, it won't just happen. It can mean stepping outside your 'comfort zone' and making the first move, which is getting to know people, whether at work, at a hobby or at family events.

[goteam]

Sorry, by 'normal' I just mean not needy or selfish and relatively self sufficient.

[goteam]

@Whisperywords people like that have loads of friends as they are fake and people are so scared of being lonely they don't care that they are fake. I had a friend like that and she is also cringingly forward. Sending Facebook invites literally 5 mins after meeting people etc. That was how it was with me and I was most taken aback but as an introvert actually respond to friends like that. The narcissism and selfishness become too much eventually though. For normal well adjusted people anyway which I think I am!