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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need an outside perspective please

47 replies

Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 08:53

DH and I are getting divorced and I feel really confused about it.
We got married 12 years ago and the first few years were good. We had 2 boys and he was incredible through the baby stages. However, when our youngest was about 1, he got a new job that consumed him. From his perspective he worked hard to support us as a family.

So for the next 2-3 years after the job change I barely saw him. In the week he got home at 11pm and I was already in bed or asleep. At the weekend he either had to do work at home or was so exhausted from the working week that he needed a lot of sleep and rest. He was irritable with the children.

So about 18 months ago I eventually told him how unhappy I was. I felt that we had no connection anymore and we awaited counselling. He’s a very dominant person and I would never win a debate or argument with him so I wanted to wait until counselling to discuss everything. However it took 6 weeks for the first appointment and he was heartbroken during this time. The counselling didn’t help. I said how I felt we didn’t have any closeness and the counsellor seemed to take his side and we eventually stopped going.

DH tried to do things and he actually changed jobs (the new one is possibly better but difficult to tell as he’s now working from home).

I do 99.9% of looking after the boys, house, etc. I also work full time but do condensed hours over 3 days a week in a very stressful job. He says that I work part time (I used to) because I work on 3 days so I should continue to do 99.9% of the chores. He does his own washing but I do everything else.

A few months ago I broke down and sobbed and asked for his help. He said he would and wanted to know what I do so we agreed I would send him a list. I sent the list and sadly he said he didn’t feel like he could do anything to help. This was while one parent was dying and the other was seriously ill.

So then we had some complicated family situations which are too outing to mention and eventually my dying parent died.

He wasn’t able to offer me any emotional support. He has no relationship with his parents.

During the last 3-6 months he has barely looked at me or spoken to me.
So we very amicably agreed to divorce. He has found a new place and moves there in a few months.

This week has been really tough as it’s the end of nursery for my youngest, I’m exhausted, my job is physically and emotionally draining, I miss my recently deceased parent, I’m very stressed about finances. But most of all I feel really sad and anxious about the divorce.

From DH’s perspective he feels like he has tried but that I haven’t. He needs sexual intimacy to feel emotional closeness and I need the reverse. So we got stuck in a cycle of not giving each other what we needed.

I’m sad for our boys (5, 7). Sad for myself. I feel like there has been so much loss recently.

I’m interested in an outside perspective. I’m blaming myself a lot. I should add that I have supportive friends and a therapist who I see regularly.

I’m concerned this is a massive mistake.

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 09:01

I forgot to mention the most important part! So since we agreed to divorce a month ago, he’s now looking at me and chatting to me and smiling, etc. He’s being nice again and nice to the children. He’s still not helping much but maybe he’s doing 1% instead of 0.01%!! He says he’s like this now because we have a plan and it’s not in a miserable limbo anymore. He seems to be looking forward to his new life and will see the boys EOW and one night in the week.

So now he’s more engaged and how I wanted him to be before. But we’re divorcing..! If he had been like this before I wouldn’t have suggested counselling.

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 09:06

We also had no support. No dates in the first few years. No family nearby who were well enough to babysit. Our first child never slept and had a lot of extra needs that my DH feels put a strain on us.

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 04/07/2020 09:07

From DH’s perspective he feels like he has tried but that I haven’t. He needs sexual intimacy to feel emotional closeness and I need the reverse. So we got stuck in a cycle of not giving each other what we needed.

Why does he feel like he’s tried when you did as he asked and sent him a list of the things he could do to help and he did nothing on it?!

Even when you straight out asked for help, he’s unable or unwilling to come through, as his Big Important Job takes all his time and energy. But apparently he has the energy for sex - what a surprise Hmm

Counselling with domineering men rarely ends well - either they charm the counsellor into taking their side or if the counsellor dares to suggest they might change they use the info you’ve shared as a stick to beat you with. He’s not interested in helping more with the home and kids, he just agreed to it to keep his cosy life intact.

Blow it up. Take back control of your life. Divorce isn’t easy, but sometimes it the only way to get what you need. I’m assuming he’ll want to spend at least one evening a week with his DCs? So there is your time off. And if he doesn’t, then you factor that in, get a babysitter (or his parents?) or someone else to help you out. But at least you’re not going to be disappointed and let down every day, because you know it’s all on you and you can work it out that way.

Plus you free yourself up to meet someone new in time, who will give you affection and emotional support you need. I met my DP shortly after divorcing XH. I always think of DP as being messy and XH tidy, but writing this down I’ve realised that XH had high standards for MY tidiness and that of the DCs but literally never picked up the hoover or cleaned a bathroom. He just moaned if I hadn’t done it!! My DP doesn’t even live here, but he’s still more helpful round the house and more generous in terms of paying for me to have a cleaner etc!

There are good men out there who want to be a loving and supportive partner. Your H isn’t one of them. (Or if he is, the only way he’ll realise this is when you divorce him and he has to do his own donkey work!)

Cut him loose. He’s had his chances but apparently unless you’re sexually servicing him as well as doing all the housework and childcare, he won’t appreciate you.

It will get better once you’re separated, I promise you. There will be tough days, but there already are. But you will find a strength you didn’t know you had. Flowers

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 04/07/2020 09:09

Just saw your update - they all do that! Mine took the kids to the park for the first time ever and actually sat and watched a film with them (eldest was 12 and he’d NEVER done that before!!) it’s just a power move - “look what you’re giving up!”

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 04/07/2020 09:11

We also had no support. No dates in the first few years. No family nearby who were well enough to babysit. Our first child never slept and had a lot of extra needs that my DH feels put a strain on us.

Sounds like they put a strain on YOU and he escaped into his work to get away from it.

TimelyManor · 04/07/2020 09:13

Everything MarkRuffalo said. You are definitely not making a mistake. You'll flourish when your head isn't filled with him and his shitty behaviour.

SnackBitch2020 · 04/07/2020 09:23

Sorry OP. He sounds more worried about losing his housekeeper and nanny. You deserve better!

Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:06

Thanks for your replies.

Why does he feel like he’s tried when you did as he asked and sent him a list of the things he could do to help and he did nothing on it?!
I think he did try but it was to do things that I had specifically raised as an issue. For example I pointed out that if he’s making himself a hot drink, please can he offer me one too. Please can he buy me flowers occasionally. Not because I want coffee or flowers but because it shows he’s thinking about me. He did do this for a bit but I think I didn’t make a big enough effort in return to give him the things he was needing.

Counselling with domineering men rarely ends well - either they charm the counsellor into taking their side or if the counsellor dares to suggest they might change they use the info you’ve shared as a stick to beat you with. He’s not interested in helping more with the home and kids, he just agreed to it to keep his cosy life intact.
He’s a very logical thinker so his side of events was very logical and I just appeared confused.
Plus you free yourself up to meet someone new in time, who will give you affection and emotional support you need.
I think I’m scared about meeting someone else, forgetting the bad bits about my relationship with DH and end up comparing them.

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:07

it’s just a power move - “look what you’re giving up!”
Maybe. Or maybe he’s just so much happier now.

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:07

Sounds like they put a strain on YOU and he escaped into his work to get away from it.
Interesting perspective that I hadn’t considered. Thanks

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:09

He sounds more worried about losing his housekeeper and nanny.
I’m not sure he’ll notice the difference as he’ll be living alone, not creating the mess of two boys! He’ll have a cleaner. I reckon his place will be really tidy because he’ll want to keep in nice and he knows if he doesn’t that it won’t get done. Then he’ll think that the mess here was my fault!

OP posts:
okiedokieme · 04/07/2020 12:13

I was you, except I stayed because of the kids/scared about not meeting someone else/worried about money. Years later he left me, except I was older so even more worried. Positive end to my situation is I'm in a great newish relationship and realising what it is to live in a partnership, just being made a drink is such a treat still! Actually exh is still a good friend, and he now makes me tea if he is around seeing our kids

TorkTorkBam · 04/07/2020 12:17

He has got you thinking you are responsible for everything, including him. No.

You are well rid. Yes he will probably be happier in his low responsibility world. Guess what, so will you. You won't be trying to manage him any more. You won't be angry at him not for doing your washing. A huge amount of stress will leave when he does.

Get yourself a shit hot lawyer. It sounds like he is a deeply selfish man. This means his idea of a fair settlement will be anything but fair. Don't give in for the sake of being amicable. That time has passed. You will kick yourself in future years if you are struggling financially due to being the primary carer and he's swanning around in new cars and going on fancy holidays with lots of spare cash and low responsibilities.

Perfectstorm12 · 04/07/2020 12:20

I hear your confusion. But I agree with a previous poster, trust your instinct and blow it up. Leave. Embrace the mess and regain control of your boys and most importantly your life. Of course he will charm the pants off you now, but be so aware that he is also power playing you and trying to paint himself as the good guy most probably so he can retell this story to others once you formally separate. Please leave. You were unhappy. You are still unhappy. Give yourself a fresh start. Have you voiced this stuff in therapy?

DiddlySquatty · 04/07/2020 12:26

It’s of course going to be sad and anxiety provoking, and coming on top of a recent bereavement is so so tough.
But from what you’ve written, it really does sound like it’s the right thing.
Him being slightly better in the last few weeks doesn’t take away the months/years that led you to the point of seeking divorce.

Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:29

Have you voiced this stuff in therapy?
Not yet because, weirdly, until about a week ago I was feeling really positive about splitting. I had got really interested and focused on the decorating that I was going to do! So this has hit me sideways. My therapist did say there would be ups and downs and this feels like a down.

OP posts:
Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:31

It’s of course going to be sad and anxiety provoking, and coming on top of a recent bereavement is so so tough.
I think this is so true. I haven’t had time to grieve and DH cannot relate to my grief at all so hasn’t offered any support there.

But from what you’ve written, it really does sound like it’s the right thing. Him being slightly better in the last few weeks doesn’t take away the months/years that led you to the point of seeking divorce.
I guess so.

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 04/07/2020 12:31

Ups and down like hill running.

Not ups then down like jumping off a cliff.

The down is hurting now but there will be an up that follows. It will be all the sweeter.

Dolores42 · 04/07/2020 12:34

Get yourself a shit hot lawyer.
We are actually divorcing without lawyers at all. We both find it divisive and are prioritising the children above all else. We’re splitting everything 50:50 and I’m happy with that.

He’ll pay over the suggested child maintenance amount.

He earns a lot more than me (3-4x currently) but my salary will rise and I love my job.

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 04/07/2020 12:34

I haven’t had time to grieve and DH cannot relate to my grief at all so hasn’t offered any support there.
Listen to yourself there. The pattern throughout has been him not giving support, he backs away from anything requiring support at lightning speed.

That your mind even goes there as expecting it from him suggests you are grieving the dream of what could have been if he were not a selfish cockwomble

yeOldeTrout · 04/07/2020 12:36

"doing 1% instead of 0.01%"

and on basis of that you'd stay married to him?
omg, no. Don't think like that. You & the kids deserve better than 1%.
It's nice to know you have a chance to be amicable afterwards.
That's all this slight improvement means.
It's actually a sign that you will all come thru the divorce ok. Not a reason to stop the divorce.

Don't delay getting the divorce.

TorkTorkBam · 04/07/2020 12:37

@Dolores42

Get yourself a shit hot lawyer. We are actually divorcing without lawyers at all. We both find it divisive and are prioritising the children above all else. We’re splitting everything 50:50 and I’m happy with that.

He’ll pay over the suggested child maintenance amount.

He earns a lot more than me (3-4x currently) but my salary will rise and I love my job.

Funny how the higher earning person who wants no responsibility enters into an arrangement where you get less guaranteed money than a court would award on the promise of future money that there is no obligation for him to provide.

If he is ripping you off like this then hell yeah a lawyer would be divisive.

Have you considered getting a lawyer to refer you both to a divorce settlement mediator?

TorkTorkBam · 04/07/2020 12:39

The children are not prioritised when he is taking his new girlfriend on holiday and cuts the child maintenance and you can't take yours on holiday.

The boards here are full of that as a bog standard scenario that follows when a selfish man leaves. Why would your divorce not follow the pattern? Especially given he has followed that pattern within the marriage?

lolligoth · 04/07/2020 12:41

@Dolores42

it’s just a power move - “look what you’re giving up!” Maybe. Or maybe he’s just so much happier now.
He's happier now because he feels he's now rid of the stress in his life - kids, wife, married life etc. If he has less perceived responsibility, yes he will feel better. But if you are rid of the source of your stress - him and his behaviour - you should start feeling better soon too.
CaptainM · 04/07/2020 12:51

I could've written your post. I got divorced for very similar reasons (plus financial abuse).

Just under 4 years in, I'm the happiest I've been in over a decade! My kids are 7 & 9, have a much better relationship with their dad (because shared care means he's had to give them more time).

My career has massively progressed and I'm a much better mum than I ever was - because I have regular child-free days (one Wed-Mon every fortnight plus every Wednesday night) which allow me to focus on me, my friends, my career etc. Those days also mean that when my kids are home, I am able to dedicate real quality time to them plus get into that time calm, rested and ready to play.

Hang in there - the lows come at the early stages and you need to allow yourself the time to mourn and grieve the family unit you initially had planned.

Then, you move forward and create THE one that will kick ar*e - your way! I love my life and my kids are happier than they would ever have been with the overworked and knackered mama that I was in my marriage. ❤️

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