Do I actually want a live in relationship and everything that comes with it?

[Annabellerina]

Yes I know you're not mind readers but I wanted some help thinking through the pros and cons as well as some stories - bad and good!

I'm mid 30s, divorced, have 2 primary aged DC full time, their dad has no contact which is his choice. My DC and I, maybe 70% of the time, have a really good thing going. We get along well, have fun together, and they're pretty independent which helps me to not feel tied down. The other 30% of the time I struggle to do everything alone, feel hugely overwhelmed and would welcome some support, adult company and intimacy.

I have a boyfriend of a year, my DC have met him only as a friend, a handful of times. He's a real gem. I've had plenty of relationships, bad and good, abusive and healthy, and this guy is a keeper. If anyone has done the freedom programme (I have) he is like 'the friend'.

He would like to meet my DC properly, as my boyfriend, and move things forward. He says he wants everything with me, living together, marriage, possibly one more child (that bit would have to be my choice), he says he's besotted with me. He also says he doesn't want half a relationship so if I didn't want what he wanted then he'd end things. I totally respect his line in the sand and I've promised to think about it. He says there's no rush and to take my time making my decision.

The difficulty is that I swing between loving the idea and hating it. I can't really imagine living with another man again. No matter how wonderful he seems now, I'm not naive enough to think that he'll be wonderful to live with. Honestly, who is?! I also don't want to unsettle my kids and I feel this is a big risky unknown.

I don't want to give up my much cherished freedom and independence, my financial stability and the happiness my kids and I have for that 70% of the time! But if I don't want to move forward with him he'll end it and I'd be bereft. I know I would be. This is by far the best, healthiest, most fun relationship I've ever had. But I keep thinking, shouldn't I be absolutely certain? How do people make this decision?

*living, not loving!

Have you previously had discussions about the type of relationship you want etc?

I personally was after someone who I would eventually live with, hopefully have a child with (very unlikely sadly) and marry. I was upfront about as a relationship that didn’t include those things wouldn’t be right for me. We had discussed moving in around November time, we then had to isolate together for two weeks due to covid (thankfully a false alarm) and his housemate has CF so he couldn’t return there. After a week of discussions we decided he could stay for lockdown as long as my son was doing okay, it has now turned into a permanent move. We haven’t killed each other yet 😂

You need to figure out what it is that you want, rather than deciding if you will follow what he wants.

Yeah, it was just an example of reasons you might not want to do everything on his relationship list.

I'd be pretty worried about another child becoming a definite want for him.

NO, no, NO! YOU are not the one pushing this, he is. YOU don't want it. You've only been seeing him a year.

What jenniferR2 said x 1000!

He would like to meet my DC properly, as my boyfriend, and move things forward. He says he wants everything with me, living together, marriage, possibly one more child (that bit would have to be my choice), he says he's besotted with me. He also says he doesn't want half a relationship so if I didn't want what he wanted then he'd end things. I totally respect his line in the sand and I've promised to think about it. He says there's no rush and to take my time making my decision.

I take a huge step back from anyone who is besotted with me, tbh. I learned a while back this is rarely a good sign.

You and he are not compatible. Time to cut him loose. He told you what he wants, and no, it doesn't work for you. Do not be pressurised into this in order to keep him - you're right, it's different for you now you're divorced and have kids.

Messy, set in his ways, not a lot of experience with kids. Have you read this board? More threads from women who move in a boyfriend like this and it's a disaster than there are tents at Glastonbury festival in a non-Covid year.

'I've been thinking it over. I'm not ready at all for any live-in relationship or more kids with another partner. We're not on the same page and that's fine, but it means we want different things from a relationship and so it's time for us both to move on.'

You don't want him meeting your kids as a boyfriend. That's very wise of you. Do not back down. Nope.

As for kids' being resilient, bullshit, not all of them, a lot of adults like to tell themselves this to justify their decisions to put their relationship with a partner first, force a new partner on their kids in a live-in setting/blended families/etc.

I'm 50 and have loads of friends in therapy due to their parents' putting themselves and their need for a live-in relationship before their kids' needs, unhappy stepchildren, blended family, half-siblings with the step partner favouring their biological child, etc.

OP, you sound like such a lovely and thoughtful person. Listen to your inner voice here. He seems a little bit more pushy than you are ready for. That maybe because he loves you, but you are allowed to take things at your own pace, and your kid's pace and he does not get to dictate that pace. This is your life and your family and you are in charge.

OP from the complete opposite perspective I’m a single woman in her 40s and regrettably have no DC. My last 2 relationships the guys had DC who they were very involved with. This is to be expected at my age.
Listen very carefully to your inner voice here. With my last 2 relationships I never met any of the DC for a number of reasons. Relationship 1 he was keen for me to meet them and told them all about me. This was horrifying to me after only a few weeks. The relationship didn’t last but he’s still one of my best friends.
Relationship 2 lasted about a year. At one point I thought I might be falling in love with him but again I had no desire to meet his DC and he never pushed it tbf. It didn’t work out and I was pleased I’d never met the kids.
It’s such a massive thing and you need to be absolutely 100% sure before your DC are involved. I’m so glad I never met them with hindsight.
Also your space and your home is your sanctuary as is mine. I had a long term relationship which was just awful. I know know I’d never live with a partner again. I think a relationship can be perfectly happy without living together. I’m a person who just needs to be alone a lot of the time and close the door on the world. I am very sociable but on my terms only.
If a man was pushing me like this I’d be heading in the opposite direction. Don’t be rushed or pressured into anything

I agree with @Jennifer2r and @DisobedientHamster. It’s clear from your post that you don’t want to disrupt the largely good life you have now for a relationship, perfectly understandably. It sounds to me as if you’re only giving the moving in option any headspace because he says it’s what he wants and that he’ll move on otherwise — when in fact what he defines as ‘half a relationship’ would work best for you, fun and companionship and commitment without cohabitation.

Listen to your gut, and prioritise your wishes. Doing something you don’t want out of fear of losing someone is never wise. I have a friend who said yes when his longterm girlfriend proposed and went through ivf twice at her instigation — and, entirely through his own fault, he ended up with a life he never wanted, marriage and children, and then a messy divorce and two heartbroken children.

He's not being pushy at all, but I am notoriously laid back and somewhat of a commitment phobe since leaving my awful marriage where I felt completely trapped. I recognise that my feelings may stem from the fear of being trapped again so I'm trying to give it proper thought rather than just writing the possibility off altogether.

This is all really helpful but I wish my mind wouldn't vacillate so much!

I'd just see how it goes for at least another year. There is no rush at all. To move him in soon would be unfair on your kids if it doesn't work out.
I agree with pp, listen to your instincts- sounds like right now you really don't want to co-hab and if that doesn't change just tell him once you're fairly sure so as not to string him along.

If you are not a 100% on board with this don't waste his time.

You don't have enough info to go off yet to make the decision to be all in, so how can you choose? He should know that he can't just put a question of all in or all out yet, he's jumping the gun. He might want all that with someone, you might be fine with all that in principle too, but the key is, do you want that with each other?
If you would like to be all in with the right person one day, you can only both find out if it's right by moving in steps with the DC. How was his interaction so far the times he's met your DC? You say you are both messy, don't dismiss this as not important though. If he is messy living on his own, and being a domestic goddess is not your thing either, you could find yourselves living in domestic hell. What's his place like? Has he grasped the basics of necessary domestic duties while living alone? Washing up done? How clean is his toilet bowl ? Does he hire a cleaner to sort it?
I think it would be reasonable to move it on to days out with you and the kids, if you haven't got this far yet, then based on how that goes, tell them he is your BF, if you don't have reservations. At that point, he could maybe stay over the odd night, then you'd have more to go off as to how it would be to live together. Have you ever stayed at his place overnight? Could someone you know take care of your DC so that you can get an idea of what he's like in his own environment. The good points you list are nice personality traits to have, but that's just a stating point and the minimum to go further.

I'd also be a bit recent about him being besotted, joining into an established family is not a fairytale, it takes practicalities and just being besotted won't cut it in the long run as that is a temporary state that wears off, but makes you blind to things before it does.

Seconding what Opentooffers says and adding a big note of caution here.
I was a stepchild twice over and looking back, even if the step parent is a decent person, it can affect you quite a lot.
We do what our parents say but they love us and put us first and understand where we're coming from because they can look at us at our worst and see their own young selves in us.
My stepDad would rather have had my Mum to himself and relationships got worse when we hit adolescence.

So from my personal experience I'd say do listen to your gut. Don't pay too much attention to what your chap says as he hasn't got the experience to know what he's talking about (literally - I don't intend to be mean here).
Do take things slowly...

I would be extremely cautious about how you progress, which it sounds like you are. If you have only been together a year, it is still relatively early days. If you are happy, there is no harm in letting him meet the DC, and progress to spending some time at yours, and see how that goes. You don't need to commit to anything yet. Ultimately if he really wants a future with you, he may need to be patient. If he isn't willing to do that then he is not the man for you.

I would add, my stepDad was keen to have a baby after they married but Mum said they should wait a year to let things settle. After the year was up and he'd experienced life with kids it turned out he'd changed his mind....

I’d do as pps day, let him meet the kids a and gradually build time spent together. You’ll soon get a feel of if it will work out.

Dp met my child after around 6 months of dating, after a year he would stay every other weekend.
We moved in together after 2.5 years of dating.
I was a bit like yourself, childs dad is bloody useless and I’d had terrible relationships in my life. However I knew he was a good ‘normal’ person.
It was his request to move in after 2 years, I made him wait an extra 6 months 😂.
If he is as lovely as you say he is, he won’t mind waiting!

We are not buying a house together and I’m really glad I met him, it does work out sometimes op 😊.

Also on the baby front- don’t do anything until you’ve been together substantially longer than 3/4years. Personally, I’d wait until after marriage.
And don’t have one if you don’t want to start again!
Good luck.

I get where you're coming from OP.
I'm a single parent to kids age 14 and 11, and they have zero contact with their father since forever, so it's always been the 3 of us. I have worked very very hard to create a happy and fulfilled life for us.
I've been with my boyfriend for just over 4 years, and he stays over one night a week, visits on 2 other evenings, comes to watch my kids play football etc, and we all go on holiday together. He has kids but they're grown up. We live 15 miles apart.
Living together isn't an option at the moment due to geography, work, schools, elderly parents etc - and to be honest I'm very relieved that the decision is out of our hands. I would really struggle if he wanted to move in. I love him, he's great, and I am looking forward to us growing old together - but right now I don't want to live with another adult.

I think that as a single parent you develop an independence and a resilience that you are fearful of relinquishing. I don't want to start relying on someone else. Nor do I want someone else having an opinion on how I do things at home and with my kids. And also I love my time on my own, which is rare enough as it is.
I'm not sure what I'd do in your position - I'd probably stall as long as I could!!

Do you have a rough idea of his timescale?

Also how do you feel about the idea of having a child in future with him? You said it would be your decision...do you have any idea what way your mind is swinging on that issue?

and what about him? how strong is the urge for him to have a child in the future?

It's too early yet for you to really decide.

It's all well and good for him to not want you to "waste his time" if you don't want what he wants - but I get a bit shirty with people (men and women alike) who take this line tbh.

Because I only want certain things, with certain people. And it's not that I change my mind about what I want - it's that i'm trying to gather enough data about the person, to figure out whether what I want will work with them in the picture.

E.g. yes when I was 25 I wanted to have a family...
Did I want a family with a guy who was smothering? Or half arsed? Or a misogynist? Or a problem drinker? No -- but some folk will chivvy you along and tell you to get on with it and not "waste" a new man's time... next thing you know you've made a big decision without giving it a few years to let the man's true colours come out.

To me, 12 months in with kids involved, I would take any exhortation not to "waste his time" as a red flag tbh. Don't let him hurry you along. If he doesn't want to go slow and put the children first, then he's not stepfather material, sorry.

My dp met my dc after a good 18 months. He was introduced by his name, not as "mummys bf" or anything like that. We spent time together slowly for a year or two. Holidays, days out, etc. Eventually moved in together after I had known dp for almost four years. It only works because DP puts DC first in everything he does, as much as he can - it's always a work in progress because childless men have to catch up with mum in terms of understanding the child and what family life really entails etc. A selfish person who is set in his ways, that way heartbreak lies for the dc involved.

There's a small subset of men who make good stepfathers. He doesn't sound like one of them to me, sorry.

I'd be very clear that I'm taking it slow, and then I'd watch VERY carefully to see whether he sulks, rages, manipulates, or otherwise machinates to get his way. Your answer will be in the watching tbh.

Your comments were all so useful, thanks. Had a conversation with him last night about his thinking on timescale, to see what he actually had in mind. He is in no rush and had asked me only to find out where I saw this all going. He says he knows it has to be in my hands as I have my children to protect. So we're on the same page about that at least.

Now I guess I just have to take small steps and see what happens. We're meant to be doing something all together this week. Which I'm still in 2 minds about...

Op I'm glad you are mostly on the same page. I really think it's fair to him to know if this is leading somewhere, we all would in average circumstances. Also fair for you to be reluctant to rush things. Sounds like you guys can compromise. Goodluck

Don't do anything that involves your DC that you're 'in two minds about' OP. Or anything else. That isn't what it would feel like if you were ready.

As an aside, in the nicest possible way- a year is really very little time. Especially living apart, the total time you've spent in his company can't add up to that much, I don't think you can know someone that well in the circumstances. He actually sounds a bit full on given them. 'Besotted' etc sound nice to hear but isn't necessarily healthy. Ditto talking about lifelong commitments and babies and the whole hog on his timeline basically or he'll end it at some point if you don't acquiesce- the thought of that sounds like it's informing your choices rather than going at the pace you really want.

I'd just be cautious tbh OP, he may say all the right things but there's not a lot to back it up if he's also said or implied he'll leave if he doesn't get his way on his timeline and you're scared of putting him off by wanting more time so are forcing things you know you wouldn't otherwise want. Nobody is perfect and I doubt he is either. Pay attention to how he/this situation makes you feel, not the nice things he says or the declarations of swooning commitment which are easy to make when it's a year of casual dating, no child involvement, living apart and so on.

Pp have mentioned the good and the bad. So I'm going to take another perspective.
Have you considered that with a slow introduction, gradually building up the time you all spend together, eventually having him overnight etc. You may find the children love having him around, and he has a very positive influence on the children in the long term. You may also find that it takes some pressure of you regarding childcare and responsibility as he may step up and you can share responsibilities, eg he cooks while you look after the kids, it may mean theres a second person to share sick days with if you have important meetings, if your unwell someone who could take on a bit extra responsibility so you can have some more down time. It may work out wonderfully and you may look back and wonder why you were so worried. I would take it slowly. Gradually introduce him to the children as your boyfriend, then slowly build up the time together by going on walks, to the park, he just visits for dinner and leaves again without overwhelming them in his presence. See how the kids feel about him. If your nervous and full of trepidation the children will pick up on this and are less likely to like him as they will perceive him as stressful because your stressed. Once the children are used to him, you can explain to him that in a weeks time hes planning to stay over on saturday night and have fun activities planned for the weekend. If the children see how happy you are around him, and he makes a effort with them, unless theres deep issues with possessiveness or jealousy from the children I dont see there being a issue. But remember your long term happiness is as important as the childrens, and if your happy the children will benefit.

Speak to your boyfriend about boundaries and initial expectations, it's important you have open communication throughout so you dont step on each others toes. If your not comfortable with his disciplining or acting as a parental figure then explain this and that it will come in time as the children get used to him. It's so important that you communicate openly throughout so you dont end up upsetting each other and your both on the same page. The same situation if he does move in in the far future, you start by talking together about distribution of housework and childcare and expectations.

Honestly I would try not to over think it. Unless you try you will honestly never know, and as pp have said children are resilient and will cope no matter what happens.

He sounds like a lovely person, but if someone is already demonstrably messy while they’re single and looking for a mate, they’re going to explode in student-house slobbery once safely ensconced in your home. Beware.

Financial independence, freedom and a casual bf sounds great. I can entirely understand why you wouldn’t want to give that up and you are wise to listen to your misgivings.

You need to listen to your instincts here. That's all I'll say, as you've had some great advice upthread.
Personally, I'm a single parent and not planning to live with anyone until my child leaves home - that's still a handful of years away. I might date but they won't be moving in. I love my own space so much, crave independence and I hated living with people in the past. It's a no brainer.

If you're in two minds about doing something all together this week, for the love of God listen to your inner voice and don't do it. Wait until you feel completely sure and relaxed about it.