All this threads about terrible guys make me think I made a mistake...

[Jackeroosmum]

Evening everyone.
I could do with some impartial advice / people to knock some sense into me!
Was with my ex 16 years, married 10. We separated in January after I discovered he had had an affair 2 year previously (I found this out last October so been a while really since we've been together). Unfortunately this wasn't the first time he had started during our marriage. This was the third woman (that I know of) that he'd slept with - first long term affair though (lasted 2 months).
But in all other ways he was a good partner and I really miss him. I miss having him as my person and my friend. For example I'm having issues with work and although I talk to friends and family, it's not the same as having that special person to confide in.
And then I read on here of all these awful guys and the horrors of online dating and I can't help but think whether I should give my marriage another go. He's going through counselling to try and fix his issues and wants to change.
Please someone tell me this is crazy thinking!

What's the famous mumsnet analogy? Would you drink a cup of tea just because it only had 10% shit in it? Would you say "well apart from the shit it's a delicious cup of tea, and lots of other cups of tea have even more shit in them so maybe I should just drink it". Of course you wouldn't. A man who is great apart from all the affairs is not a great man, he is a shit man. Poor away the shitty tea, OP. Accept nothing less than zero shit in your tea. And if you really can't find any tea without shit in it, then maybe don't drink any tea at all. That's not the same as expecting every cup of tea to be perfect - some tea might be brewed too strong, or have too much milk. But no tea - even if its otherwise the most perfectly brewed cup of tea you ever drank - should contain actual shit.

OK I think I've stretched that analogy as far as it can go now.

I don't know if you have a daughter, but imagine talking to your own daughter about relationships . There must be a list of basic things that you would like her to have in her relationship. How you would like her to be treated by a man. Things that you would hate to have to stand by and watch happen to her. Now apply that list to yourself and your husband. Is it enough?

Thanks everyone. I honestly think posting here was the best thing I did! I've tried speaking to family and friends and for some reason not one of my female friends have said that he's a complete dick and I have done the right thing.
If I ever mention that I'm struggling or missing him etc, it's been suggested we go to counselling (again) or that I clearly still have feelings for him still so maybe it wasn't the right decision. I was starting to think (as crazy as this sounds!) that maybe all of his good points did make up for the cheating.
What he did was really really bad right? I think people's reactions (other than here and one male friend) and my ex's behaviour (saying he just did a b ad thing and that he's actually a really good person) had started to make me think that it's not such a big deal (loads of people cheat) and that I was silly to throw it all away.
To answer some questions (sorry can't tag on here): I saw a different counsellor second time round and I don't think we clicked really. Unfortunately the lady I saw before was where I used to live (60 miles) away.
Yes I do have a daughter and a son, and yes I would not want my daughter to ever put with what I have, and perhaps even more strongly, I would NEVER EVER want my son to think it's ok to treat his partner like this.
And for the lady who suggested how to cope without that special person for support / a good moan - thank you. It helps to see that maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I need to be that person for myself

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

What's the famous mumsnet analogy? Would you drink a cup of tea just because it only had 10% shit in it? Would you say "well apart from the shit it's a delicious cup of tea, and lots of other cups of tea have even more shit in them so maybe I should just drink it". Of course you wouldn't. A man who is great apart from all the affairs is not a great man, he is a shit man. Poor away the shitty tea, OP. Accept nothing less than zero shit in your tea. And if you really can't find any tea without shit in it, then maybe don't drink any tea at all. That's not the same as expecting every cup of tea to be perfect - some tea might be brewed too strong, or have too much milk. But no tea - even if its otherwise the most perfectly brewed cup of tea you ever drank - should contain actual shit.

OK I think I've stretched that analogy as far as it can go now.

Love this btw! Makes so much sense!

OP There are millions of good men out there, most of them actually. They don't get posted about very often because MNers don't want advice about handling them and the "Isn't DH smashing threads?" that appear, tend not to last because they're not very interesting!

There are good men everywhere, try to love yourself a little and you will find one. Remember any man is never better than no man at all.

your family finances are diverted to whoever your H is sleeping with and wining and dining and buying gifts for.

And that's not even getting on to the risk of pregnancies and resulting children with other women .... A massive massive diversion of funds away from your family. Not to mention the complications of all that half sibling, other family shit on your kids.

Plus someone cheating on you destroys your self esteem - makes you feel
like yours not enough, even though they're enough for you ... And other people have relationships in.ehivb they are enough for their partner.

*you're not enough

It's perfectly normal to get the wobbles OP, it happens to the best of us. But then we remind ourselves that life single is far better than someone who will treat us like shit and thank God we didn't do anything silly like contact them during the wobble.

Don't drink the tea with shit in it. Drink your own tea. Maybe look and see if you can find other teas that are also really nice but remember your tea is the best

saying he just did a b ad thing and that he's actually a really good person)

Bit hd didn't do a bad thing, he did three bad things, and each of those comprised of hundreds of bad "things"..
receipt, betrayal, risking your sexual health, allowing you to stuck to the rules and remain faithful while he gave himself permission not to be etc etc.

And even if it had been just once ... That detracts from him being a good person. Of course he wants to believe he's a good person; but a man who cheats on his monogamous partner and mother of his kids is simply not. He can believe what he wants to believe (his motivation is obvious) doesn't mean you have to believe it.

That fact that many people cheat on their partners doesn't make it ok, or him any better a person. They're all shit people. So, there are lots of shit people in the world, big surprise. The answer for the decent people is not to get into or stay in relationships with them, but to keep looking for other decent people or to be single.

He's not just a cheat, he's a serial cheat. I dated a serial cheat once (not on me that I know of, on his soon to be ex wife). He thought he's a good person too, and maybe he wasn't all bad ... But he was a bad partner and that's what matters.

@Jackeroosmum

Thanks everyone. I honestly think posting here was the best thing I did! I've tried speaking to family and friends and for some reason not one of my female friends have said that he's a complete dick and I have done the right thing. If I ever mention that I'm struggling or missing him etc, it's been suggested we go to counselling (again) or that I clearly still have feelings for him still so maybe it wasn't the right decision. I was starting to think (as crazy as this sounds!) that maybe all of his good points did make up for the cheating. What he did was really really bad right? I think people's reactions (other than here and one male friend) and my ex's behaviour (saying he just did a b ad thing and that he's actually a really good person) had started to make me think that it's not such a big deal (loads of people cheat) and that I was silly to throw it all away. To answer some questions (sorry can't tag on here): I saw a different counsellor second time round and I don't think we clicked really. Unfortunately the lady I saw before was where I used to live (60 miles) away. Yes I do have a daughter and a son, and yes I would not want my daughter to ever put with what I have, and perhaps even more strongly, I would NEVER EVER want my son to think it's ok to treat his partner like this. And for the lady who suggested how to cope without that special person for support / a good moan - thank you. It helps to see that maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I need to be that person for myself

A lot of friends will avoid telling you he's a dick in case you do get back with him and resent them for it.

My aunt got rid of her cheating husband when she was quite young with two kids.

She dated various blokes that didn't suit (and doesn't too long trying to make them suit i believe) but after a while met a divorced guy (split with ex wife because she had cheated) and they're happily together years now.

He suits her really well and she incidentally has a much better standard of living with them than she ever would have with her feckless first husband.

A measure of his character is that my late uncles, who had an awful disabling genetic disease, were wheel chair bound, and were very introverted and used to being at home among family .. trusted him totally and would go out to concerts and things as long as he was there.

*spent too long

Many people do forgive an affair HOWEVER we are talking about a serial cheater here. A man who has cheated three times!

If you are content to stay, you must come to terms with the fact he very well may continue to cheat. Most women would not accept that so would move on but this is your choice.

I often don’t read threads as it made me feel a bit that way but your DH is one of those men I’m afraid. When you read threads on here just keep in mind that people don’t write on here to tell everyone their husbands are great (well there’s the odd uplifting thread) but they write on here because they want advice which is the idea of mumsnet. Essentially what I’m trying to say badly is that the majority of men are not awful but you hear about a lot of awful ones on here.
You deserve better than related cheating and ok he’s trying to change but can you cope with it happening again if he hasn’t changed?

Crazy thinking! There are plenty of good men out there, even oLD. When you met your ex you thought he was a good one and started a relationship. He wasn't. He was a liar and a cheat. Taking your chances with dating again is always a risk but maybe you've learnt to better sniff out the cheats?

“Also, who does everyone else turn to for support? Who do you vent to at the end of a stressful working day or when the kids are being a nightmare, of when you look in the mirror and feel shit about yourself? I guess I feel a bit lonely more than anything maybe“.

Friends! My friends are my person - I have a group locally and my three best friends from various stages from childhood, plus one who's now abroad. We share our fears, hopes, worries, dreams, talk about our day to day stuff, help each other through good and bad.

And even when I was in serious relationships they were more use than the men for emotional talk or in a crisis.

It's not a cheating man or nothing, I promise!

@Jackeroosmum I’m sorry your friends aren’t being as supportive as you need. It may be they think you will get back together and they’ll feel awkward or they themselves have forgiven similar.

What he did was a bad thing. A disrespectful, dishonest, shitty thing. And not just once.
And as you’ve forgiven him before, he’ll do it again and expect you to forgive him again.

You deserve SO much more.

I get you on missing having a person to rely on or vent to. Another poster has made some great suggestions. I would add - be your own person. I know that sounds very new-age wish washy but I think a lot of us would avoid these men and these situations if we learned our own strength and power.
Of course friends and relationships are important but if you know you can support yourself through lonely or tough times the value of your relationships goes up. When it comes to men, your bar suddenly gets a lot higher!

Good luck!

Incidentally ime people who cheat (especially serially) often think that they're good people and believe that they're generally well liked and well respected. But the reality is often that they are not.

People who don't act like that themselves don't respect or hold in esteem people (usually men let's face it) who act with such little loyalty to their family unit and such little integrity.

However the vast vast majority of people will also not confront, condemn/criticise (to their faces), or ostracise them for their behaviour. This is one if the reasons the cheaters believe they're well liked and respected but t's a delusion.

Things you could do to have that vent - write a journal or private blog, call a friend (but make sure the conversation isn't all you venting ), physical exercise, a good yell, dance around to some upbeat music.

I agree - thankfully, my fabulous friends were my person too for a good long while. After a while, when I started identifying my need for external approval, I realised my friends also had this and - I felt - put up with too much in their relationships as a result. So as I was resetting my own boundaries I gradually took a step back from my friends as I found it triggering to hear their stories of what they were putting up with. We’re still very friendly but now I am at a point where my own self care is all I need. And when my friends need me to listen I can do that without being triggered. It’s a process. Whatever works for you. You’ll work it out.

Yeh he is one of the shitty men you read about. An affair (never mind three that you know about) isn't just one incident of bad behaviour. It's lying to you, disrespecting you, reprioritising you further down his list, taking time away from you/the family for himself/the OW, it's dismissing the potential hurt to you of finding out, risking your health (and fertility?) assuming he's having sex with you both, it's hundreds of ways of showing how shitty he is.

Don’t waste anymore money on counselling. It’s just snake oil. All the counselling in the world isn’t going to change him. He is dick led. Take time to live life on your own. You deserve much more than this.

And then I read on here of all these awful guys and the horrors of online dating and I can't help but think whether I should give my marriage another go.
What do you mean, exactly? That you can't be bothered to look for someone else, as it's too much hassle? That a relationships board where people specifically go to discuss their problems or bad experiences gives you a good insight into what most men/dates are like? If that's not what you mean, what do you mean?

Who do you vent to at the end of a stressful working day
Nobody. I go out for a jog, take the dog for a walk, watch something funny on TV, paint a picture, think through whatever it was that bothered me and try to reframe it. If I do mention it to my bf it is usually as a funny story about something ridiculous that happened. If I was so stressed that I couldn't wind down that way, I would try to do something to sort the issue out.

when you look in the mirror and feel shit about yourself?
This isn't a regular occurrence for me, not because I look like Angelina Jolie but because I went through (good) counselling after my exh's affair, read some well written books, listened to podcasts and learned a few tricks. If I do have a negative thought when I see myself in the mirror, I can usually either shake myself out of it and laugh at myself, or (again) reframe it. Focus on the good bits, put my looks in context.
I wouldn't mention it to anyone else - I can't say that I find it reassuring to hear other people politely trying to cheer me up by saying that I look fine. And I don't want my bf in the role of saviour.

Sounds to me like your counselling might be focusing on the wrong thing? Perhaps you need to spend less time talking about him, and more time getting your confidence back. If you change counsellors, do make sure you get one you click with, as that is at least 50% of the effect.

I think you need to redefine what a 'good husband' is (he wasn't) and raise your standards.

I opened this expecting it to be an ick type situation where you'd left him because you didnt like his toe nails or the way he chewed his food. 3 affairs that you know of - pretty awful OP!