Deteriorating relationship with parents

[lime10]

I'm mid 30s, born to East Asian immigrant parents who settled in the UK when I was little. Close to 30 years later, they remain surprisingly East Asian in culture and outlook, whilst I feel mostly British.

My parents have always had a stereotypically East Asian parenting style: controlling/overbearing, worried about everything, slow to praise but quick to criticise. Also, and I'm not sure if this is cultural or just them: they don't take any interest in the things I clearly care about. They never ask me about long-standing hobbies of mine, and when I share with them something I've made/done, the response can be pretty muted or nonexistent.

I had always just taken it, but in recent years have started to challenge them, which has caused a lot of friction. The overbearingness is annoying, but the lack of interest is hurtful. It hurt me as a child, and the hurt seems compounded now by time and repetition. I can't work out if I'm too sensitive and need to cut them some slack, or if I should stop expecting so much, or what. I constantly feel a mix of anger and also guilt towards them - angry with them for not being the parents I want, and guilt for not being the nice, patient, compliant daughter they want.

Does anyone have a perspective they can share to help me resolve my feelings? Particularly, anyone from a similar cultural background?

Thank you

I agree, Rvby your insight is profound, thank you for sharing.

I think it is hard to accept that they cannot understand your priorities. Be confident in yourself and your interests. If they aren’t interested, it’s because of their own limitations.

Think about what they see as ‘love’ - probably different to how you see it. Maybe they would think it was nice if you gave them a red packet at CNY or bought a meal for them when you visited? You can know how to ‘play’ it by thinking about what they appreciate

Thank you rvby that was a very generous helpful post. I'm glad you've got to where you are now 🌼

Wow @rvby that is really resonating with me. Closeness is not allowed in my family ether. Genuine closeness that is.

My parents think making small talk about the garden and the weather and the roast is closeness 🤔

@Lottapianos thank you for that. Feel guilt for having this boundary, or standard.

How interesting, so what does "I love you" mean in Chinese? Is it not a usual thing to say?

I think my DH experiences this to some extent. Middle Eastern rather than East Asian, but he carries a lot of guilt about the life they left behind for him, and they seem quite over invested in his/our lives. They also seem to struggle with how western he is. He has such ridiculously high standards for himself, I find it painful to watch sometimes. I’m not sure he realises it though, and they do most of their communication in their native language so I don’t hear all of their conversations. So I don’t think it’s just you. You won’t change them though, you just have to work out what you’re willing to put up with, and how important your relationship with them is.

Absolutely, @rvby that's really profound and helpful. And everyone else, thank you too for your input. I read each post carefully; they all give me something to think about.

As an update, since I first posted, I've been putting some distance between my parents and me. I've stopped sharing with them things I've done re my hobby, and feel relief mainly from not having to manage the inevitable disappointment when they don't really acknowledge or respond. Which is a new feeling!

My parents might have sensed my messaging less, and bombarded me with messages earlier this week asking how things were (how's the weather, how's our toddler). I replied politely but didn't elaborate loads. I hope that was the right thing to do.

Hi op

I've often shown teen clients in the past the poem below
It explains a lot I think
Accept what you can, ignore what you can't, and put boundaries in place
For yourself

This be the verse'
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Philip Larkin

My parents might have sensed my messaging less, and bombarded me with messages earlier this week asking how things were (how's the weather, how's our toddler). I replied politely but didn't elaborate loads. I hope that was the right thing to do.

this sounds exactly right.

them bombarding you tbh sounds like they -want- closeness but have 0 idea how to handle it. You have repeatedly said they love you. It sounds to me as if they are a product of their environment plus an expectation of control. if you can, compasson for the fact they have had such an unnurturing background themselves, and keep good boundaries against their expectations of control.

Maybe leave it at this level of contact for a while and adjust to it, and then decide how you want to handle it from here.

(again, gotta recommend the book about children of emotionally immature parents)

@SeaEagleFeather I think you're right, they were likely seeking closeness. It's frustrating as I feel like I've made it clear what I need from them, and they're either not listening or unable to provide it. Can I share the most recent example that semi-sparked this?

Me: shares photos from recent hobby project I was proud of
Parents: silence
Me: oh did you see the photos? Did you like it?
Mum: we send you photos of our garden [they're proud of their garden] and you don't always respond
Me: I think I do actually
Mum: it feels unnatural to praise you repeatedly for your projects. My mum never praised me, but I knew she was proud and that was enough for me
Me: ok but you know I'm different, I like to hear your praise, it makes me feel good. Actually, it's not so much the praise, but just knowing that you're interested in what I'm up to. Of course you may not be interested in my hobby, but you can at least discuss it with me a little bit
Mum: I used to be interested in this hobby but now I prefer reading books on xyz, it's more interesting to me

I felt like the last response COMPLETELY missed my point so stopped engaging.

Based on that example, I would say your mum does want to be close to you, but lacks the skills to demonstrate closeness in the way you prefer. This frustrates you, and your mum also gets frustrated because you're asking her to do something that makes her uncomfortable, in order to please you.

You wanted praise, your mum explains that praising you doesnt feel right, and also tries to communicate that she is proud of you and she expects you to know that. You keep asking for praise, she feels more and more cornered into doing something shes told you feels wrong to her, so she awkwardly changes the subject. This leads to hurt feelings for you.

I don't have an intimate knowledge of your culture or any real insight into your mums mind, but I do know that many cultures have extremely deep seated superstitions about NEVER praising children because it will "spoil" them or attract bad luck or some other esoteric reason.

If your mum grew up in a home where children were not praised, and she saw loved ones angrily warding off praise as if it were somehow harmful to children, she will experience a weird uncomfortable mix of emotions when you ask her to praise you, a sense that she is doing something very wrong. If you combine that with her having not very good insight into her own feelings, she is naturally just going to awkwardly ward off your attempts to get her to do this thing that makes her uncomfortable.

Reading your example, I see a daughter who is genuinely longing for warm praise from her mum, and a mum who loves her daughter and wishes that daughter would accept love in a different way, a way that doesn't make her feel so uncomfortable. Both of you have needs and limitations, and each of you are trying to get the other to change to fit those needs. It's an awkward and painful dynamic.

Ultimately, you'll see healing when one of you starts to accept the other as they are.

The situation you describe is really you knocking on the door of a person who keeps telling you she can't give you what you want. She doesn't communicate with words, most people don't - but she is telling you she can't meet your needs, even though she is proud of you/loves you.

I think if you want a better relationship with her, you'll need to stop asking her to do what she doesnt want to do, get your needs met in a different way, and simply meet her where she is. Easier said than done of course.

@rvby that's absolutely right I think, and really insightful. Thank you. I accept that giving praise feels uncomfortable to her, but surely she could show interest and ask me questions about my hobby instead of just ignoring my attempts to engage? I found her last response really lacking in theory of mind, and a bit gobsmacking. But it's time to accept and move on really. As you say, she's just unable to give me what I need, I don't need to continually make her feel bad for it, I can just accept our relationship won't be as close as I'd like, and leave it at that.

My DH parents are Asian (Indian) and are also very critical. They lack warmth and praise. In fact his ‘D’M has never said anything positive about DH, certainly not about me and to be honest she struggles praise our DC but I think I’ve heard her try 😂 she honestly seems incapable of it. Some of the things I hear about his childhood honestly shock me such as his parents criticising him for school plays / sports performance etc. Who does that?? He says he thought it was normal until he met my family as that’s all he experienced.

I don’t think it’s all related to them being Asian as I have lots of Asian friends with nice parents. They tend to be a bit overbearing at times but well intentioned and caring.

At first I found it really hard to manage but I’ve just adjusted my expectations. We see them occasionally for short bursts only and NEVER give them any information 😉 made that mistake before! Your Mum probably won’t change so it’s learning to manage that and also hopefully find the warmth and interest that you rightfully crave from another source. My DH also didn’t want to go NC with his parents and I respect that. I don’t think it’s always as simple as they’re abusive, go NC.

My best friends parents are Chinese and they were so tough on her at school. She was really hardworking anyway but they pushed and pushed. She was never allowed out as a teenager and they were very strict with her. She did amazingly and has a great job etc but hasn’t got married or had any children and now they’re pushing for that.

Hugs OP xx

I think you should read Amy Chua's book, Tiger Mother. It might give you an insight into the way that your parents parented.

It's interesting reading ont his thread about the differences in parenting style between Chinese and Indian parents.

My mum always held that compared to other Chinese parents she knew, our family was much, much more lax (with the implication that I should be grateful). Despite having been in the UK for close to 30 years now, she seems to have really held on to her Chinese values in everything, and that's her benchmark. I'm sure she can see I'm mostly western in my outlook, and whilst I understand some of the Chinese thinking, I don't agree with it. I've struggled to understand how she cannot tailor her parenting style to suit her child, but as PPs have said, perhaps it feels deeply uncomfortable and she just can't.

@lime10 We know a lot of Chinese families as the schools that both my DS and my DD attend are >90% Chinese. One thing I can say, is that these parents really put the work in. All of the children of our Chinese friends are doing very well at school and in music. By comparison, myself and our other 'Western' friends are quite lazy. I would much rather have the drive and commitment of a Chinese mother, but just as I can't change, neither presumably can your mum.

@WineAndHobnobs I think parents also need to consider the impact of all the pushing on their relationship with their child, and the child's mental wellbeing, as well as possible high achievements coming out of the pushing. I've seen my mum's Chinese friends push their children who clearly aren't very academically minded, but are perhaps good at art, sports, etc. - it's relentless, and the children still didn't get into Oxbridge like they wanted. I'm sure you're a wonderful parent as you are!

In my case, I should clarify my parents were pushy, but probably not Amy Chua level. The thing I found upsetting wasn't so much the pushiness, as the lack of willingness to listen to me and engage with me.

@lime10 I am sorry that you feel that they didn't listen to you or engage with you. That's really sad. All we can really do is plan to be better parents ourselves.

I think you should maybe consider some counselling/therapy about this. Your feelings are very real and valid, and maybe taking some time to work through them will help you find some peace. Your mum is unlikely to change, but you shouldn’t have to be so hurt all the time.

Similar background op. I think children arent valued or brought into the world because they are actually wanted. Its what was expected for people like my parents. You are just objects to make your parents fit in with their peers. You are there to toe the line, not embarrass them. Anything outside of their norm is bewildering.

I haven’t read anything here that makes me think that your parents are intentionally callous or cruel OP. Sadly I think this is just cultural differences and it is too hard for your parents to change their ways. Imagine if you moved to China and your child resented you as an adult because you didn’t push him enough academically but you found the ‘Tiger Mom’ strategy too stifling and limiting to implement yourself?

I have a few friends born to Chinese, Vietnamese and Taiwanese parents but raised in Australia and your complaints are common. They found their parents overly pushy, unsupportive of their creative endeavours (classical music excepted), scornful of emotional displays and ‘old fashioned’ with regards to dating and relationships.

'You are just objects to make your parents fit in with their peers. You are there to toe the line, not embarrass them. Anything outside of their norm is bewildering.'

Very sad, but very true for a lot of people I think, across all sorts of cultures

lime10 honestly, look up that book about emotionally immature parents. Towards the back there's some stuff that seems to sum up your mum's inability to really show interest/connect to a T. The love is real, and so is the conditioned inability to connect.

And Rvby's posts are excellent

Thank you all, and definitely will check out the book @SeaEagleFeather

No my parents aren't deliberately callous or horrible at all. At worst, it's selfishness and lack of theory of mind. They do mean well most of the time, but it just gets lost in translation.

Interestingly, today my dad completely uncharacteristically messaged to ask if I was well, and specifically to say he and my mum missed us all. I'm sure it took a lot for him to say that, I wonder if he noticed I was pulling back a bit.