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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Deteriorating relationship with parents

100 replies

lime10 · 27/06/2020 15:23

I'm mid 30s, born to East Asian immigrant parents who settled in the UK when I was little. Close to 30 years later, they remain surprisingly East Asian in culture and outlook, whilst I feel mostly British.

My parents have always had a stereotypically East Asian parenting style: controlling/overbearing, worried about everything, slow to praise but quick to criticise. Also, and I'm not sure if this is cultural or just them: they don't take any interest in the things I clearly care about. They never ask me about long-standing hobbies of mine, and when I share with them something I've made/done, the response can be pretty muted or nonexistent.

I had always just taken it, but in recent years have started to challenge them, which has caused a lot of friction. The overbearingness is annoying, but the lack of interest is hurtful. It hurt me as a child, and the hurt seems compounded now by time and repetition. I can't work out if I'm too sensitive and need to cut them some slack, or if I should stop expecting so much, or what. I constantly feel a mix of anger and also guilt towards them - angry with them for not being the parents I want, and guilt for not being the nice, patient, compliant daughter they want.

Does anyone have a perspective they can share to help me resolve my feelings? Particularly, anyone from a similar cultural background?

Thank you

OP posts:
lime10 · 28/06/2020 10:22

Thank you @Lottapianos that's really helpful

OP posts:
Fanthorpe · 28/06/2020 11:32

Your parents may well have been the same whatever culture they were brought up in, as you can see from the Stately Homes threads it’s a problem for many families, regardless of their societal structure. Maybe the pressure on you to not question it is stronger, but I know myself the resistance I face when people find out I’m not in touch with my parents. It’s quite a taboo for many people.

lime10 · 28/06/2020 13:20

It really is deeply ingrained @Fanthorpe even the thought makes me feel like an awful person, like what kind of ungrateful person goes NC with their parents? What issues are so insurmountable that a person would behave so extremely towards parents who have given you everything? But of course in reality there are all sorts of reasons.

OP posts:
namechange5575 · 28/06/2020 13:48

You've had some great advice here OP. I'd also recommend getting some therapy - there is a massive amount of work for you to do around working through your resentment, your guilt at your resentment, the losses you have experienced (of not having attentive, emotionally attuned parenting), and mourning in accepting that you will never get that from your parents. That is an awful lot to process, and i suggest it would be best done in the context an attentive, emotionally attuned therapeutic relationship, to provide some reparation for what has been missing. You may find, after therapy, that you are in a position to manage a more limited relationship that can be somewhat mutually satisfying, without feeling so disappointing and painful for you. But that would be an incidental effect rather than the goal. You deserve happiness and peace. Good luck x

KetoWinnie · 28/06/2020 13:53

Yupp. Only emotion im allowed to feel is gratitude.

It is exhausting. When you grow in to yourself, they just try and make you who you they think you should be.

Fanthorpe · 28/06/2020 14:07

It’s not an easy place to be that’s for sure, I don’t think there’s a day goes by I don’t think about them, it’s never done lightly, and it’s never a resolution to the problem.
It’s a way of reducing the damage though, a way of thinking about myself and my boundaries. A way of moving forward so I don’t have to second guess where I’m going wrong all the time.

salmonberry · 28/06/2020 14:46

I can help with cultural context if you are Chinese. If you moved in your early years and don't have a large family/speak the language/regular contact with extended family/regular trips "home" then the cultural gap is probably quite large. I've also found that in the above scenarios the parents become "more traditional" than their peers back home to try to keep their identity. If this isn't the case with you then feel free to ignore!

Of course your parents may be toxic even with the additional context, but just to give an example, the way we say "I love you" to our partners and children is not really possible in the Chinese language. Things which are quite neutral to say in Chinese can sound quite mean when translated to English. So a little context probably does help in some cases!

lime10 · 28/06/2020 14:46

I absolutely agree that therapy would be really helpful. I'll look into it for sure

OP posts:
lime10 · 28/06/2020 14:49

@salmonberry yes they're Chinese. I understand the language differences, and how saying I love you would sound so odd in Chinese, but I can't get my head around how they couldn't/can't even listen to me when I tell them something that interests me or is important to me.

OP posts:
salmonberry · 28/06/2020 15:05

I do think yours sound much less interested than anyone else I know from my parents generation (I'm the same age as you). My grandparents, maybe, could be perceived that way, but I don't know what they were like when my parents were younger. Somehow my parents/aunts/uncles bridged the gap between my very traditional grandparents and my very Western generation - they probably gradually became more "Western" as we got older and became more independent.

I agree that you are not responsible for their happiness and that ultimately you have to do the right thing for you, even with my filial piety mindset!

lime10 · 28/06/2020 15:23

I'm focussing on all the upsetting episodes now - of course I have nice memories of my parents too - but these have really stuck with me and I feel so upset and resentful every time I think of them:

  • when I was 14 and about to go on my first date, I really wanted to talk about it with my mum, but she brushed me away
  • a few years ago, my parents' visit to the city where I lived coincided with when I was going through a difficult time after a brief but intense relationship. I was visibly down, and tried to explain why. But my mum said they wouldn't have visited me had they known I was going through a hard time

Why? Why not show support, ask me how I feel, hold my hand? Why shut me down? Sad anyway...

OP posts:
Fanthorpe · 28/06/2020 15:32

To many people like your parents emotions and feelings are painful and difficult to face, it’s better to ignore them and label them as weakness. There’s a great deal of shame involved as well. Denying your right to experience your emotions makes it very problematical time process anger and sadness, you can get stuck, and may deal with it in other ways - food, alcohol, self harm, for example.

You would definitely benefit from exploring this with a good therapist.

salmonberry · 28/06/2020 15:50

The upsetting episodes in your update can't be explained by the culture gap (at least in my experience) so I don't think you should worry too much about cultural context when you decide your next steps.

The only other thing I can say is that the one time something upsetting happened in my family, email was the only way to talk honestly. Face to face would have resulted in more upset whereas writing things down meant that everyone could have time to think and process and listen. In our case, after some back and forth the problem was completely resolved with no hard feelings. If you ever decide to have a heart-to-heart, please consider email. Good luck, I wish you well.

lime10 · 28/06/2020 16:01

Thank you all

OP posts:
ScribblingMilly · 28/06/2020 16:07

The most helpful thing I ever heard in my life came from a piece with Tony Benn on R4 in which he said his key to relationships was to have high expectations & make high demands of himself but not of others. I've found it helps in almost every situation but particularly with family.

Lottapianos · 28/06/2020 17:37

Very good advice Scribbling. Tough to follow, but very wise! Save yourself a lot of disappointment

SeaEagleFeather · 30/06/2020 09:22

lime, try reading this book www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Children-Emotionally-Immature-Parents/dp/1626251703?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

it's an easy (but challenging) read and the theory behind it (which she does't shove down your neck at all) is excellent.

It explains why your parents can't respond emotionally to you.

I do think culture makes a gigantic difference to child rearing perspectives and expectations, but love and nurturing comes through in any loving family. A chinese friend of mine says that her grandma never spoke of love or said I love you, but she knew it every day by the actions her grandma took to nurture her and show her care and respect.

I don't think you need to blame your parents for the way they are, but if you can reach a position where you can see them as doing their best but are very flawed that will help you forgive them hurt they've inflicted. Also they were probably brought up by people who went through extremely repressive and difficult times in China, or whose parents did. Damage has a nasty tendency to transmit down the generations unless either someone is very lucky, or does an awful lot of hard work and introspection to change.

Lottapianos · 30/06/2020 10:06

'I don't think you need to blame your parents for the way they are'

I agree that the ultimate goal is acceptance of the way they are, and to feel peace with the situation. However, blame, anger, rage and self pity are very normal and healthy stages along that journey. OP, you may find, especially if you start therapy, that your feelings towards your parents become very strongly negative, and this can be very hard to stay with, as you've been so conditioned to always be kind and thoughtful towards them. A good therapist will help you to process these feelings. They are there for a reason (if you have them) and they must be felt, there is no way around it. Forgiveness and acceptance is a process, and there can be some really challenging steps along the way

Fanthorpe · 30/06/2020 11:27

I spent a long time following the strategy of understanding why my parents were as they are, and trying to find the key to a good relationship. I don’t blame them, I feel very sorry for them.

My own wellbeing and mental health just couldn’t sustain the relationship as it was though, I don’t seek to punish them or ask them to change.

Lottapianos is right, it’s a process of forgiveness and acceptance , anger isn’t sustainable.

Lisette1940 · 30/06/2020 11:31

I'm where Fanthorpe is. I'd also add that in my case my child was witnessing my parents being abusive and he was commenting on it. I had to protect him, my husband and myself. Just as a general note I found this book on resilience very useful www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1846045819/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_rrX-Eb61Z0S0Z

KetoWinnie · 30/06/2020 16:35

@Fanthorpe

I spent a long time following the strategy of understanding why my parents were as they are, and trying to find the key to a good relationship. I don’t blame them, I feel very sorry for them.

My own wellbeing and mental health just couldn’t sustain the relationship as it was though, I don’t seek to punish them or ask them to change.

Lottapianos is right, it’s a process of forgiveness and acceptance , anger isn’t sustainable.

I agree with this and was doing ok with it until my mother glissed over something that damaged me and hurt me and left me with zero sense of myself.she and my dad get angry with me as a tactic to shut me down, subconsciously. So at the moment i feel angry, that they would both rather let the no contact go on rather than just acknowledge what happened. Not even looking for a sorry. But their reality where i was paranoid, sensitive and emotional is not one i can live in without anger.

I have stepped back and the anger subsides.

So im only angry when im living in their reality.

And mine, where i was emotionally neglected makes them angry.

I just cant see the solution.

Going to see a psychotherapist next week. Sod the hair! I need a therapist more than i need a hairdresser.

Lottapianos · 30/06/2020 16:52

Keto, anger is a very important emotion. It's not a fun one to feel, and can be really exhausting, but it's so important because it flags up when you feel your boundaries have been violated. We're all told, especially as women, that anger is a bad thing that we have to rid ourselves of, and something that we're not allowed to have. It was only when I (slowly) started to feel my anger that I started to make progress in therapy

I hope your session is a positive experience. Therapists can be like shoes, you may have to try a few to find the right fit

Fanthorpe · 30/06/2020 17:12

I hope you have a good first session, I agree you need to find the right fit, someone who is focussed on you and your repair.

You may find a way back to your family, everyone’s situation is different though.

rvby · 30/06/2020 18:03

@lime10 I'm so sorry you are hurting.

Fwiw my family is much like yours, but more distant. My sister flatly will not spend time around me if I am anything but happy and social. My mother is good at showing sympathy at the time while I'm telling her something - and will then make up a story for herself as to why my troubles are my own fault, and will then refuse to discuss them with me. I am a responsible, compassionate, sensible person - not a drama queen at all - but they simply don't "do" closeness of any kind. (Unless I am supporting them emotionally - that's different - that's allowed!)

I read all your posts feeling a great deal of sympathy for you because I know how it all feels.

You ask good questions about whether you should hold your parents accountable, etc. for their lack of intimacy with you and how they dismiss you. Again, I've been there, I've asked myself those questions.

For me, the journey got a lot easier once I distanced myself (stopped phoning, duty visits only, stopped revealing personal details). It hurt enormously at first. I felt very guilty, all the time, but I experimented with it, I let the guilt happen just to see how it would all pan out.

After a few years, the guilt and pain faded. During those years I spent time learning to be compassionate and loving towards myself. In essence, I tried to teach myself how to be the parent that I had never had. I practiced speaking gently to myself, acknowledging my own feelings, being honest with myself about how scared and sad I felt at times, etc. etc. I took more baths, watched more silly movies, bought myself little gifts, wrote in a diary, started to draw and sketch again as I had when I was a child. Etc.

Over time, the distance from my family combined, with my re-parenting of myself, meant that my very raw painful feelings had some time to heal. The psychological distance from family was key, the more I went back to my mum and sister trying to get them to love me, the worse I was hurt each time. I had to remove myself in order to allow the wound to close up and for some scar tissue to form properly, if that makes sense?

Now it's been about 4-5 years since I got that distance in place properly, and I'd say for the past year or two, I have felt a lot better. It does take a long time and you never full get over it, but you learn to carry the pain more comfortably, in a way that doesn't hurt so acutely.

I hope you can get to that place too.

I think it's important to remember that in the final analysis, it doesn't matter if your parents are "right" or "wrong", or if they take responsibility for anything, really. What matters is you, and how you reduce the pain you feel as much as you can, in the hope that you don't pass it on to another generation.

For what it's worth, I once did a multicultural counselling course, and your parents sound like they carry around a lot of fairly typical ways of thinking and doing things, as it relates to certain Asian cultures. Their ways work very well in their own cultural context. The problem is they had a child who absorbed a different culture, and now they find themselves radically distanced from that child due to massive cultural differences. Even the idea of what an emotion is, and what emotions are for - those things are radically different from one culture to the next.

You can learn a different way of seeing things, and some folk are quite good at learning new things and discarding parts of their culture in search of different ways of being. Others are inflexible, others lack the cognitive ability to learn easily about abstract things, others have so many other differences and issues that can keep them from bridging these types of gaps. That's just the way people are. It can't always be helped and it's not something that is anyone's "fault", iyswim.

But that doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt you, deeply, and make you feel terribly alone at times.

It is something that's worth grieving over, it really is. It's a hard thing. I'm sorry. xx

SeaEagleFeather · 01/07/2020 07:30

wonderful post Rvby

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