Ex girlfriend - am I being unreasonable?

[43Today]

Hi all, I have done loads of lurking here but very little posting - now it's my turn to ask for advice.

I recently met a very nice man on a dating site and we've been seeing each other for about 3 months. We both have kids, he is divorced (9years ago) and I have been separated for 4 years. After his divorce he lived with someone (henceforth referred to as 'Ms X') for 7 years and became like a stepdad to her daughter, now a mid-teen. They split up over a year ago, at her instigation, and he was devastated as he loved her very much, though he says he is over her now. He has been out with someone else for 3 months early this year, and now me.

Anyway he is a great guy in so many ways - really attentive, kind, good in bed, good dad etc- but I am having a big problem with his relationship with Ms X.. He goes round to her house for tea, she cuts his hair, she came round to his place on Sat night when his kids were visiting and they spent the evening (til 9pm) together. The other weekend he and I went to London for a romantic (ie shagging!) weekend, and bumped into her daughter on the train home. As soon as Ms X found out from her daughter that we were on the train, she rang his mobile and asked him to buy some milk and drop it off on the way home (they live in the same town), then 10 mins later another call saying not to worry, then the minute we walked in the door of his house another call to thank him for giving her daughter a lift back..

Is it just me or is this a bit much? I happily admit to being insecure, plus a bit of a cynic and have always been suspicious of male/female friendships anyway - but with an exgf it seems even worse! He has described her as his 'best friend'..

I hate to think of myself as a paranoid controlling type of person, but I feel myself getting very concerned.. please tell me I'm getting things out of proportion!

Thanks

do you expect him not to have any contact with her at all??? how seroius ishe about this relationship? have u actually spoken to him about where the 2 of you are headed

I am a cynic but - the alarm bells are deafening me here. Why can't the woman buy her own frickin' milk?

This is tough unless there is some proof of anything going on.
As the new gf I can totally see your POV, but I have also had friendships with men (tho NOT ex's) ruined by jealous new gf's who just wouldn't believe there was nothing going on.

He may just be being friendly cos of her dd, and assumedly his kids know her.

Think the extent of the friendship does seem a little wierd as she is the ex, and she instigated the breakup. Perhaps make quite sure he really IS over her before you continue down this road. (Tho how you do that I don't know)

What is his reaction when she phones, etc?

If it helps to understand at all, my ex-DH is my best friend (aside from current DH!). He feeds the cats when we're away, he takes my younger sons (I have 2 older kids with him) out sometimes, he pops in on his way home for a glass of wine at least once a week - and DH and he go and watch football together every other weekend. He'll always be part of my family, IFSWIM.
7 years is a very long time, especially if he had a hand in the raising of her daughter - you can't walk away from that without some residual friendship, and the habit of expecting the other party to help out with practical stuff is hard to break. It's not the same at all as wanting a "relationship" with them, or being in love with them.

if it is as you say - that the daughter phoned her mother and then the mother texted your man there for some milk, then she is acting oddly. But it could have been a coincidence.

but anyway what do you expect him to do exactly? stop seeing her and his stepdaughter? you expect him to share 7 years of his life with someone and then just drop them completely?

men and women can indeed be friends. anyone who says otherwise is either a sex maniac or extremely insecure.

Oh my god she's an ex! Ex means something - it means you don't pick up the milk for them any more.

It sounds like they are still hanging on to parts of their relationship that they need to let go of. I wouldn't be happy too if I were you. Maybe you should invent (or find) an ex-boyfriend who cuts your hair and have tea with him once a week.

Of course if there's nothing in it and they are just friends she should be inviting you round for tea too.

when my Mum met my stepdad he had a job that involved going abroad lots. On his return he would buy his by then ex wife some perfume - my Mum, then the new gf wasn't impressed. He now says he'd just always done it and it didn't occur to him that it was strange. In the same way she had left him and he had been the hurt one, so Mum was very warey.

They've been together for years now and he hasn't spoken to exwife for years, so there really wasn't a problem. He was just being manipulated by a woman who it suited to have him around.

My worry would be that he was 'devastated' when she broke up with him. This suggests that he might be letting her dominate his life in a way that would not happen if he did not still have strong feelings for her. On the other hand, as someone who has only been with him for three months, you don't have a lot of wiggle room, really. I'd hang on in there if you really like him, and see whether you become more comfortable with the situation over time. If this is still bugging you a few months down the line, I'd say dump him for your own protection!

I don't think the OP is suggesting for one minute that her DP drop this ex as a friend. She's merely wondering if there's something she needs to be worried about.

I think you may be right, 43Today. I think the ex probably doesn't like the fact that her ex partner has found somebody else and asking him to get milk (do what? grow up and get your own milk!) is her way of demonstrating that she still has some influence if not control over him even if she doesn't want him back herself.

However, I wouldn't say anything just yet. I'd watch and wait. I think it's cool if he stays in touch with her but not for the kind of mundane living together stuff like getting milk. That would annoy me too. She probably knew you were on a weekend away together.. . . . . . .wanted to reimind him of her .. . . . .

Make sure you have your own friends still too so that you don't focus on when they're together. Why was she there when his kids were there btw?

Eventually, if things work out for you two, in couple of months when you're a more established couple, perhaps you'll even be able to meet her. And always always maintain the moral high ground by being be super friendly, super nice and super polite.

If you think that he's still into his ex, then gently and politely end the relationship with no drama and maximum dignity because if he's still into her, you don't stand a chance not least because he'll have rose tinted spectacles on as he was binned by her.

That's just my humble opinion. Keep your pride at all costs.

I completely agree with Hassled. I thinks she's probably spot on. (I'm in a similar situation to hers.)

As the most insecure person in the world, I can sympathize with your inecurity! But i don't think you've anything to worry about.

And I think the fact that he was so attentive in bringing up Ms X's daughter is a good sign for you, actually, as a mother. . .you want a man who doesn't view someone else's child or children as an emotional burden. So you can look at his helpfulness/attentiveness in a way that bodes well for you!

But yes of course it's annoying. But you shouldn't worry that they're shagging or anything. The physical part of that relationship is probably long since over. . .it's the friendship/habit aspect that's enduring. And I'm sure, once you're together for a bit longer, you can address this with him, and he can think more about extricating himself from the ex once he starts transferring that attachment to you.

Well I'm friendly with most of my exes, have met many of their new partners (and indeed was at one point quite friendly with a partner's ex becasue she was a good friend of his 2-3 years after the break up).
SOmetimes relationships just run their course, doesn't mean the person you once went out with is bad. Certainly if this man was involved in the upbringing of her DD for 7 years then he's still, in a waym, part of the family and always will be.

As to his relationship with you, well 3 months is certainly a bit early to start making demands on a partner about who he has to cut out of his life. Have you even discussed with him whether your relationship is heading towards exclusivity? If he's a nice man you could perhaps tell him that you feel a little bit insecure about his friendship with his ex, then if he is a nice man he can reassure you without pandering to your insecurities. (because paranoia should never be fed, that just makes it grow).

Depends how friendly though, doesn't it? He was "devastated" by their break up ? She asks him to get milk for her? Sounds very cosy still. I'd steer clear for a while personally.

Hi Again everyone, thank you so much for your input. It's been really interesting to see all the different points of view, and also fairly reassuring.

It's always good to know that one's feelings, however unworthy, have been shared by others in similar positions, and I must say that I'm not proud of feeling jealous, possessive and insecure! However it did reassure me to hear from people who are good friends with exes that there is nothing more to it than habit and friendship.

Vis-a-vis long term prospects with this guy, he has made it clear that he would like us to move in together if things go well and we feel it's good for us and of course the kids. I am more cautious in general, and unfortunately I am finding the ex situation is actually putting me off him a bit - I find it irritating to be honest! Also, I would expect to be 'best friends' with my partner and not have another candidate already installed in that position. But then, 3 months is very short time, as some of you pointed out.

I don't know.. in every way apart from this he is great. It's so hard to know whether it's my own sad insecurities that make me view his relationship with her as a threat, or if there really is anything there..

I think I will have to just be grownup about it for a bit longer and see how things go - trouble is, the longer we are together the more involved I will be and the harder it would be to extricate myself if necessary -

but in the meantime thanks for all your words of wisdom.

Morning all - the posts from yesterday really made me think but I still haven't managed to feel relaxed about this situation..

Perhaps I should put down all the ex things which have made alarm bells ring, and any comments would be very welcome -

• When she split with him she told him it was because he wasn't supportive enough over some family problems she had been having, but afterwards it turned out she was being unfaithful with someone who she is now going out with. It turned out also that she had been unfaithful previously during the relationship. As an example of his lack of support, she cited an occasion when he offered support which she refused, but 'he should have known that she needed him really even though she said No at the time'..

• She is named on his Health insurance and he explained that's because she needed a big op sometime in the next couple of years. She rang him a couple of wks ago to say she's having the op in a few wks time. He wil look after the daughter while she's in hospital, but the ex seems to expect him to also help nurse her when she gets out of hospital. When he said her boyfriend should be helping out, she said 'he works' (as does my guy needless to say)..

• Some friends they had when a couple are coming down to visit and they are going to go out as a foursome.

• He still has photos of them as a couple displayed in his living room

• He has described her as very moody and demanding

• He sees her at least once a week, which seems an awful lot to me?? or am I just really sad.. I often don't see my good friends for a fortnight or more..

I perfectly accept that a long relationship takes a while to get over, and that where kids are concerned of course there will be continuing contact. But I would have thought that if you split up over a year ago, you would not still need to be in touch quite so much, and you can still maintain contact with a teenager without having to see her mum all the time too.. also why would you want to stay friends with someone who has treated you so badly (infidelity I mean)?

As I said in my other posts, in all other ways he is great! I see him 2-3 times a week, every other weekend, and we're off on holiday soon; also he wants to introduce me to his kids, parents, ex-wife (no issues there thank goodness!) this weekend.

Am I just making too much of this? Partly the problem is that generally with exes I have always cut contact straight away to help me got over it quickly, so I find it hard to understand people who don't..

Please continue with your wise posts and help me to get a better perspective! Thanks

I know what you mean by feeling insecure.

It seems to me that she may not want him as a partner but she wants him dancing in attendance to her.

People can be friends with their ex's I am with mine but I wouldn't expect him to do anything to help me that wasn't related to our DD.

Personally I think expecting him to "nurse" her when she gets out of hospital is going too far. It would be interesting to know what her new man thinks of this plan.

Also IMO having photos of himself with her on display when you vist seems rather insensitive if he is talking about living with you. Will he expect you to have a photo of him and her together on your mantlepiece when you live together.

I know it can be hard to be grown up and cool when you are feeling insecure but it may be the best approach. The other approach would be to take the risk that it will all come to an end by telling him you are not happy with the situation and that you won't put up with it, but at least if it does you haven't wasted anymore time on him.

I think the test is.......

Tell him you are going with him.

When they are going out with the mates, say you want to go too. If he says no, ask why.

When he goes round to her house, go with him sometimes. Help in the 'nursing' of her.

All of the things you have mentioned....an evening out, helping when someone is ill, popping round, grabbing a pint of milk...they are all things true friends do for one another and are not in themselves suspicious. It is if you are excluded from them, that would be worrying.

So if the ex doesn't want you round for coffee, just him...or you can't go on the night out because it's "just the four of us" and so on...then that says they haven't moved on from the relationship and I'd say it's time to walk away.

"I'm not proud of feeling jealous, possessive and insecure!"

You know people are made to feel bad for having these feelings but often the reason we have them is because they are telling us something is wrong. I mean count the number of times you hear about women being jealous then it turns out they had something to be jealous of.

If he's wanting you to move in together you need to talk to him about this. He sounds like he is still extremely tied in with this woman which is always going to get in the way of any relationship you have with him.

Honestly I'd look at why you are doubting yourself - he's going out as a couple with her with another couple (not on), she's expecting him to nurse her (not on), he sees her once a week (not on). Why do you expect so little from a partner? The first flush of a relationship is supposed to be when you have eyes only for one another - not him popping round to her house with a pint of milk after having been away with you.

I said earlier if there's nothing to it then you need to be included in his social life with her i.e. if he's going out with her and this other couple then you need to be along too (I can imagine that would be loads of fun). If he won't do that, then my advice would be to think seriously about what you want out of this relationship.

Oh dear- this sounds like a classic example of she doesn't want him, but neither does she want anyone else to have him. Despite him saying he is over her, he clearly isn't. Do you know why they split up? I think you need to have it out with him - and accept that he might be more emotionally tied than he lets on. Personally I think you have right to be miffed, but 3 m onths isn't long enough to have a hold over his behaviour- more to the point he needs to be honest with himself- does he hanker thoughts of getting back with her, and if so, is that a possibility- or is he hanging onto a dream? It is not air on any new woman in his life if he is still in love with his ex. Ask him.

Sorry- i just re-read the posts and see why they split. This woman seems to be a right little madam - constantly unfaithful, demanding, possessive etc etc. And VERY manipulative. However, I don't feel optimistic about you and him, sorry! he sounds very much as if he is getting into other relationships far too soon after that split and he really is not over it. I think you are being used , and his heart is elsewhere. I'd give him an ultimatum- either drop her or drop you. I know you feel a lot for him, but it sounds as if he really needs to get his head sorted out- and you don't want to be part of that process.

Elizabetth: if it was a man feeling jealous and insecure about his female partner's friendships (to the extent that he wanted to vet who she saw and spoke to) would you still think that was OK? Given that suspicion or fear of infidelity leads so very often, when it;s the man who's insecure, to domestic violence?

Thanks again every one who has posted on this, it is really helping me to clarify exactly why I am feeling the way I do at the moment.

Madamez, your point is interesting; jealousy and possessiveness are not 'positive' emotions, and obviously when used as an excuse for violence completely unacceptable. However I think that those of us who expect a monogamous relationship need to trust a partner both sexually and emotionally; I don't think that BF is having a sexual thing with Ms X but that they are entwined emotionally to an extent that might make it hard for him to really commit to me.

The negative points I've posted about Ms X are all what BF has told me about her, and I suppose part of my puzzlement at his need for close friendship with her is that she doesn't actually seem like a particularly nice person - though it may be that he has tactfully left out her good points; he told me also that she had always had a big problem with his children staying every other weekend!

Now maybe i am being just as unreasonable but.. I would have no problem with them going out for a drink once in a while to catch up, like he does with his other mates. It just seems like they're in touch an awful lot if it is just good friends.

Do you think there is any chance of 43today being violent towards her partner, madamez? Do you think she sounds the jealous or possessive type, because I don't.

It sounds as if these jealous feelings are a signpost to a problem in the relationship, not a problem with 43today (sorry to refer to you in the 3rd person 43today - I'd say trust your feelings).

I think the ex GF sounds difficult. And it's all v. cosy. He's behaving as if he is still her partner. Totally. He's not over her because if he were, he would see this and have no qualms about not doing these kinds of favour for her.

I'd keep my distance and end or suspend the relationship, obviously explaining to your bf why you are uncomfortable. Be honest. And save your heart from being broken.

If he wants you, he'll come after you, having fulfilled your reasonable requests about his ex.