How do you know if the abuse was 'bad enough'?

[Alwayseatingtoast]

Name change for this one.

I left STBX 13 months ago. We have older children. (teens and 20s). We were married for 25 years and nobody had a clue anything was wrong apart from eldest DD who has been with us in some form pretty much our whole relationship!

I believe what I experienced was emotional abuse but my DM has implied it was just normal falling out and relationship stuff, and my STBX has said he would do everything for me and I was just never happy and very high maintenance to live with. I read stories of abuse and am roundly horrified by what some people go through.. Can I have some measured opinions? (I'm not going back either way. It's definitely over).

Drinking. At least 5 days a week and usually a bottle of wine and 4 beers minimum. Then would be party man and then weird, 'bite your head off if you said the wrong thing' guy. Parties were terrible. I found myself asking him to try and not get too drunk. He would literally be lurching all over the place, flushed, argumentative and inappropriate (smarming over available women).

Temper. Any time I questioned a decision he would have a major sulk (could go on for days). When we were younger he grabbed my neck and pushed me against a wall in an argument. Also threw an iron, crockery and a kettle 'near ' me. This is obviously abuse. However, this was also 20 years ago and he didn't do it again.

Password. He believed that he should have the passwords to all or any emails and social media. If I changed them without him knowing he went ballistic. (He had his own though). He said he had no intention of looking, it was just about trust.

Previous relationships: He said it would have been way better if I was a virgin when we met and was very jealous of any exes. Made me apologise for having them and said if we were ever to bump into them I was to tell them I despised them.

Money. Spent it like water and got us into a lot of debt.

Contraception: I didn't want to go on the pill as it doesn't suit me. Told me that as I had once been on the pill for a few months before in a previous relationship that this was insulting and hurtful. It was a constant, constant argument.

Friends: Didn't like one of my friends as she knew one of my exes so asked me to break off all contact. I wasn't allowed male friends as apparently men and women cannot be 'just' friends. Said that he should be the only one I confided in.

Porn: Wanted me to flirt with other men and join a swingers club. Pointed out this was nuts, especially with his jealousy but said it was fantasy and I should indulge it.

Control: Didn't want me to do various things (go to events alone, change jobs etc) as he considered them dangerous and wanted to protect me.

Weight: I'm a bit plump and he encouraged this. Told me I looked old if I lost weight and got very upset when I joined a gym.

Looking at that list (and there is a lot more!) it does all look odd, but on the flip side he did try and give me anything I wanted and of course we did have some good times. It is certainly not one of those stories I read where the abuse is horrific and obvious, more a tale of a very, very strange and jealous man.

What are your thoughts?

He's a textbook abuser. Maybe there's others who are worse than him, but it shouldn't be your standard "Well, at least he didn't beat me up". Glad you got out.

Classic abuser

OP abuse is never a competition. Even a one of event is enough. All of that was sad to read. Well done for leaving. Do you have support in real life too?

He is abusive (including physically abusive) and controlling.

he did try and give me anything I wanted and of course we did have some good times

You know they're never awful every minute of every day of the year, sometimes they turn on the charm, otherwise women would leave far more quickly.

It is certainly not one of those stories I read where the abuse is horrific and obvious

It sounds pretty bad to me.

my DM has implied it was just normal falling out and relationship stuff, and my STBX has said he would do everything for me and I was just never happy and very high maintenance to live with

Of course your ex is going to gaslight you and deny what he was like/try and blame it all on you.

IDK what your mum's experience of/beliefs about relationships is, or why she would say that to you. Maybe he's charmed her, these men can turn on the charm, especially to outsiders, so people don't believe what they're really like.

Some people have a 'that's just men' attitude to some nasty male behaviours. Men don't have to be this way.

Most relationships aren't as you describe.

As people say on here:-

The only acceptable amount of abuse is none.

No doubt, you were abused. I expect part of the reason you put up with it for so long is that you weren't taught good boundaries. Your mum clearly doesn't recognise abuse for what it is herself. I'd be telling my daughter to leave for just one of those things.

My parents divorced when I was 13 and my mum never remarried. She was initially very unsupportive and took STBX's side as she was concerned he was going to kill himself as he was so upset. These days she is much more on board, but still maintains a friendship with him 'for the grandchildren'.

He has told everyone I am menopausal and trying to recapture my youth.

He's very abusive. He's controlling and possessive.

This isn't even a borderline situation of is he just mean. He has issues beyond being abusive from what you've said, including retroactive jealousy.

I'm sorry you endured years of this behaviour and he doesn't accept responsibility.

Well done for leaving.

Controlling and manipulative, very abusive. Congratulations on leaving
You’ll find lots of good threads on the relationships board recommending the freedom program and many many books....the more you learn, the more abuse you may remember and the more enlightened you become, and the bigger the relief that you escaped.

OP you are entitled to end any relationship if you want to, full stop.
Your mum sounds very manipulative. I would think carefully about your relationship with her, she should be supporting you not trying to undermine you.
All the things you have stated he has done are awful and not the actions of a decent person. But you don't need to justify your decision to leave to anyone.

He said he would do everything for you.
He meant, presumably, the occasional grand declaration. He clearly didn't mean

• moderate his drinking

-being sensible with finances -refrain from physical abuse

• trust you to have your own social media passwords
• treat you with respect

Actions speak louder than words. His actions show that he didn't see you as a full person. I'm not clear if he saw you so much as a possession, perhaps it was more like a pet - you are fond of your pets but don't really expect them to have a life outside of that you provide for them.

I think your mum maintaining a friendship with your abuser is also pretty abusive. She doesn't have your back at all.

It’s common for abusers to attempt to buy absolution. My mother did this to me. She spent a lot of money sending me to a fancy school and dressing me in expensive clothes. In public I was a credit to her. In private she attempted to alienate me from my other family members and friends, call me horrible names (stupid, fat, ugly, unlikable, lazy, useless and so on). I knew what she was doing but I let her buy my compliance. It made me feel cheap, like emotional prostitution. But my acceptance of her behaviour didn’t make it ok. If someone rapes you and you later pretend it was consensual (to others, to your rapist, or to yourself) that doesn’t erase the rape. Other forms of abuse are the same.

My mum is elderly and quite naïve. He spent a lot of time crying on her shoulder and telling her I was having an affair. He is very charming when he wants to be and very manipulative. She has also got on very well with him over the last 25 years because he was always very helpful and supportive towards her.
She realises a lot more now. He also told her he had no one to talk to and threatened suicide, so she felt 'responsible' for his mental health I think.
I am having to help her move on!

He was absolutely abusive to you.

There are no advantages to being physically or sexually abused in a relationship but at least you are able to say "he did that" and "she did this" and people understand immediately why you needed to leave the relationship. (I have been physically abused)

Your list , and it probably isn't even exhaustive, holds enough information to leave many relationships. All if it is awful .

The drinking too much or enough to leave the relationship.

Being inappropriate.with woman is enough

Trying to force you to take the pill is enough

Not allowing you friendships is enough

Getting you into debt and not protecting your financial security is enough

The grabbing your neck and throwing stuff at you... I'd like to throw a boiling hot iron at him right now ... You know that was enough , 20 years ago or not. It's still in your head .

Making you feel bad because you weren't a virgin is just unpleasant. We women have sex. He's a controlling bastard.

And everything else , the controlling , the temper , the needing to know your passwords. I bet you were walking on eggshells every single day.

I AM HORRIFIED by your relationship. I am , I suffered physical abuse in childhood and much milder emotional abuse in a relationship and your story horrifies me.

Please , never, ever go back to this man.

Thank you. It actually helps to see the reactions. I think, and I guess this is common, it is very easy to minimise and normalise things to a ridiculous extent.

I am not going back to this man and have now (not planned) met someone who is lovely and is starting to show me how it should be. Taking it slow though. Determined not to make any more mistakes. This brings in another problem as STBX will react badly when he finds out. I am not telling him, obviously, but can't say I'm looking forward to it. Any advice or experiences with this?

And you know, I still feel guilty for moving on.
If this was anyone else, I'd be saying 'He's a bastard, You go girl' and it would be unequivocal. So why have I turned into a lily livered, needy wet lettuce when it comes to me?

He sounds like he was very abusive, and given that he was controlling you are right to be concerned about his reaction to you having a new partner.

Lots of abusive men aren't physically abusive regularly or often for many years. But once they've done it once you always know they are capable of doing it again. It can help to drive the other forms of abuse, as it's always a potential threat in the background. It's a way of gaining control.

Oh and well done for leaving him, I can't imagine it was easy

Well done for getting out of this abusive relationship, I think it would be a good idea to do the Freedom Programme, so you can learn more about abuse, healthy relationships etc., especially as you are embarking on a new relationship. It might also be a good idea for your children to do it as well. You can do the programme online, as group meetings are currently suspended. Women’s Aid will be able to support you.

Well done for leaving him it such a big, difficult decision to make when being constantly subject to his abuse and gaslighting. Especially having people not supporting you.

Please don't feel guilty. You need to look after yourself. Try to imagine your life with him if you retired one day. There was a thread here a while ago about it, imagine you are at that age and have to spend 24/7 pandering to him, sacrificing, arguing instead of being happy and simply enjoying your life.

Good luck with the new guy, hope you're much happier now

He's a chapter and verse, comprehensive, text book abuser.

I'm sorry you've only escaped recently.

Forget about his lying and gas lighting; they don't admit to anything. They're not reasonable, decent people If they were, they wouldnt be behaving that way.

Why do you have to tell him anything about your new partner or anything at all.

You're divorcing, you're not together. It's none if his fkg business.

If your kids tell him that up to them but it's none of his business. Why would be be unblocked on your phone etc. He's been extremely abusive, you have no under 18 kids together. Your divorce comms can be handled by solicitors.

If your mum wants to indulge him that's up to her, she's very foolish (and disloyal).

The reason you feel guilty is because you have bonded with him through the abuse. It's called a trauma bond and it an absolute fucker to get through but you have done the hardest part by leaving him. You are a hell of a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for.

If you haven't already , do some reading on getting over a trauma bond . Xxx

You don't need to listen to his abuse, you've been listening to it for long enough while married to him.

Multiple murderers have served shorter sentences than you.

You owe him nothing.

I am having to help her move on!

Do you see how messed up that is?