Am I an emotionally abusive parent?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

I will start by saying that I grew up in an emotionally abusive household and have real trouble with knowing what's normal and what's not. I mean, I think I do, but then I second-guess myself constantly.

I love my three children and would do anything for them. But one of them, if I'm honest, I find harder to engage with. I try hard to be patient and tolerant and loving, but I just find my irritation threshold (iykwim) is much lower with her than with the others. I am afraid she can sense this and will feel jealous and pushed out as she grows up.

E.g.s: tonight I was trying to comfort her younger sibling, who was in absolute sobbing tired hysterics at bedtime. I asked DD to give me some time alone with younger sibling as it's easier to calm her when DD not around and also DD will constantly ask questions/ yabber on and frankly I also wanted 2 minutes alone with the baby to give her a kiss before bedtime and just focus on her a minute. I haven't seen any of them all day as at work. DD initially refused to leave us and I became a bit snappy and said I'd do her bedtime in a minute but could she please listen now and give us a bit of space.

Or, last night I got to bed at 1am after finishing work and when I came upstairs DD was standing on the landing holding her teddy. I was very tired and not in the mood and probably didn't handle it well. I asked her if she was poorly or scared, or needed the loo. She said no. I asked her to go back to bed and said she needed sleep. She didn't listen and sat down in the middle of her bedroom floor. I tried to get her into bed short of physically carrying her, couldn't manage it, and ended up just walking back downstairs and getting DH to do it as I couldn't deal with it at that time of night.

Later, I felt bad, like I'd abandoned her.

When I write them out, these things seem small, but then, stuff like this happens on a daily basis and I'm worried she feels constantly subtly pushed out or criticised.

She is 5, for context.

I'm scared I'm turning into one of those horrible narc mothers you read about on here :(

I have 3 DDs 17, 12 and 7. Youngest has asd. The 12 year old is an absolute nightmare most of the time and lately all I feel I'm doing is punishing her or giving out. Its hard not to feel the guilt but its normal. Once you show affection and make it clear you love your child then you are doing ok x

Wouldnt say abusive but harsh. I have a 5 year old whom has just gone back to school. I take her to toilet every night at 1030 and she has a big wee otherwise pees bed or wakes up. I also leave landing light on. Other night she woke up and wanted a story and settled nicely.

If you go on YouTube and type sleepy paws in my dd loves it and she is asleep within minutes.

My oldest is 10 and when my youngest was a baby I thought my eldest was so big and old. Shes not shes a baby and needs support and attention. My 5 year old has been having a bed set up on her sisters floor for past 6 weeks (felt lonely)

Also when you are settling youngest give your 5 year old the ipad for abit whilst you are ready to put her to bed?

I agree with @Lifeisforliving123 not abusive but I think it’s harsh and she probably recognises it that’s why she tries to get attention at night time. She can see you giving baby a cuddle and a kiss and your making her get out. 5 is still quite a young age she maybe feels pushed out.

She could be anxious about leaving you to go back to school so clinginess and proximity seeking will increase until that phase has been she settles into school again.

How old are the younger ones op?

5 is such a funny age. They seem so grown up compared to the babies, they want to be grown up, they're ordinarily in big kid uniform in school and wanting to be bossy and act older but they're still so young. I need to remember thst more

DS (5) is def needier since the twins came along. He needs to be on my lap if one of them is, he sulks if I have them both and there's no room for him, he trails me from room to room. He's just trying to get some time and the babies are awful daytime sleepers who go to bed after him. I resent it, having him home and not having any time to just play with the babies instead of trying to do it whilst teaching counting in 5s and telling the times, but it's IT I resent not him, altho it's hard to remind myself that when he's whining and they're screaming and DH is at work

I agree with the others, you don't sound abusive at all.

But you need to be careful with this:

'But it doesn't bug me in the same way. Because i know they are really little and can't help it'

5 is also really little and she also can't help it. She can't help being irritating. She can't help wanting to talk all the time. She can't help wanting to be with you when she hasn't seen you all day. She can't help waking up in the night and then not being able to verbalise why she's up and can't go back to bed.

It's an easy mistake to make when you have several very small children, you start to think the eldest is much older than they are. They seem so grown up in comparison to the little ones, but you have to remember that she's tiny and she didn't ask for two younger siblings. She didn't ask to be your 'big girl' at 5 years old. The last one will still be your baby at 5 years old, think how differently they'll be treated and whether that will be fair.

I think if you really want to ensure your childhood doesn't impact your parenting adversely then you should consider therapy. That way you will know you are doing all you can.

Often being a parent is the trigger for loads of unresolved or even things you had worked on from one angle to pop up in the context of your new role as parent. As it is a difficult time with 3 little ones ( she is still little) it would be understandable that it is only just showing up as a potential issue now the baby has come along too.

For what it's worth I don't think you meet the criteria for an emotionally neglecting parent from the But We Took You to Stately Homes ongoing support thread!

Five is still very little. Sometimes they seem so much older because the little one is so small, but she is tiny really.

I don't think you are abusive but I remember my mum always being very busy. I always knew she preferred my brother, she would sit with him in bed and ask me to go to my room. I was lonely and felt sad and not good enough. I also did the standing in rooms thing hoping my mum would have time for me, but she never did and she would just get cross.

Now I am older I get she was shattered from working and dealing with my more difficult brother, though she does still give him more attention and time. I ended up a very independent person and she struggles to understand why we aren't that close now, but I was never able to go to her for emotional support or hugs and to be honest, resented her.

I think you need to tread careful. You shooed her away to spend time with the baby but you don't do the same with the baby (hand him over to dad for eg) to spend time with her. I imagine you find her irritating because you know you're not spending enough time with her and you feel guilty. I'm sure there's points in the day you can hand the little ones off to their dad for 5-10 minutes and have a quick game with her. You need to build time into your routine to pay attention to all of the children individually.

I don’t think you’re abusive no, but I do think she’s attention seeking and feeling pushed out or rejected so she’s trying to get your attention, as you’re her world. She’s tiny op, she’s only five, she may be older than the others but that doesn’t mean she’s not tiny or very young.

Yes, thanks for all this. It is helpful to read. To be clear, she does have her own special goodnight later with hugs and special jokes. Every night DH reads to her from a chapter book whilst I pick up after bathtime, and then we all go into her room and have a hug and talk about what she liked doing best that day.

But other than her story, no she doesn't get lots of 121 time. Hardly any, in fact. It is very hard as our house is not that big and the toddlers are always around, and I have work.

Op is there any way you could do her story and your husband pick up after bath time?

It does seem like she’s not getting any 121 time alone with you and that’s what she’s looking for, which is natural.

It's a tradition for the two of them.- he also doesn't get 121 time with her.

I want to start reading her Harry Potter as I have always wanted to share that with her but she doesn't seem hugely fussed.

Agree I need to find some way to spend alone time with her tho'

I found dd1's behaviour improved when i made special "mum and dd1" time. I'd take just her out at the weekend on a little trip. You could do a little picnic at the park on your days off work and leave the younger ones home with your dh.

We used to take it in turns to read to them each night so they got that regular one to one time.

It does read like the younger ones are getting all the attention and it must have been hurtful for her to be told to go away so you could be alone with a younger child, when she never has that.

Either take it in turns for reading, or your husband does something with the younger kids, whilst you spend some alone time with her, it would appear she feels pushed out and rejected and is trying to get your attention or be included, which is totally normal.

I agree with what bluntness is saying. I think she senses your irritation so feels insecure and is seeking reassurance/attention

5 years old is still very little. Too little to understand when you want her to 'give you space' with the even littler ones. I don't think you can really expect a 5 yo to give you space tbh, and framing it like that must feel like rejection. If you need a moment's break from her, why not turn it into something positive - ask her to go and do or get something (a toy or something you need for the little one etc). Try and make her feel that being the big sister makes her special and helpful, rather than in the way of your time with her siblings.

Ah OP I really recognise the feelings and the pressure you’re experiencing. My eldest is a bit older than yours (8), but that theme of sometimes forgetting he is still young too and still needs a lot of patience and emotional intimacy and 121 time is really familiar. Like you, I also have a demanding job. I have one child fewer (my youngest is 2) and am a single parent.

Some thoughts - I agree with others than its attention seeking and that need needs to be met, hard as it is for you. I am definitely sometimes ‘fake it til you make it’ with my DS, and I also work really hard to completely tune out some irritating behaviours from him, especially when Sensible Me realises they’re stemming from his anxiety and insecurity. I once read something that said children need 7 positive interactions to balance out one negative one - not really sure of the ‘science’ of that, but it does keep me aware of ‘do I really need to ask him to stop leaping on and off that step?’, ‘is grumbling that we’re running late actually going to speed us up, or am I just letting off steam by snapping at my child?’ and that helps both of us feel and act better.

Sometimes I think it’s really difficult - near impossible - to meet everyone’s needs, and on those occasions just acknowledging this is better than nothing. It sometimes helps my DS if I can ‘grant his wish in fantasy’ just by saying “oh, I really wish there was the time for me to sit and play with you every night before bed!” or whatever - have to tread this one carefully of course, but it can be effective in rebuilding connection when you can’t actually do the thing they need. Acknowledge our failings, acknowledge their feelings, provide assurance (when it’s possible) that things won’t be like this forever - whether that’s things being better (in a specific way) at the weekend or after lockdown or at some other future point. My DS needs time alone with just me, beyond the time we now get in the evening once DC2 is in bed, and although that can be few and far between for logistical reasons, we talk about it and plan for it and when we have it it’s restorative.

I’m also a big believer in good apologies. I know that your experience with your own father will make you really cautious and mindful about doing these well (which has to be a good thing!) and apologising sincerely and making sure your children don’t feel compelled to exonerate you. Sometimes we don’t even see til we’ve all calmed down what went wrong, and I can say something like “I was cross because I just wanted to get DC2 to bed quickly so we could watch TV together, and your noisy game meant it took much longer to help her sleep; and now I can see you were feeling really fed up because you just wanted to show me your special thing straight away and it was too hard to wait such a long time. I’m sorry I shouted like that.”

I have previously really fallen into the trap of thinking ‘once I’m past X particularly stressful event, things will be easier and I’ll do better’, but actually this is DC1’s childhood slipping away all the time, ‘once I’m past X’ is mostly not a good enough way of looking at it. Which made me feel more guilty initially but also helped me focus on what I needed to change, and which corners I was and wasn’t prepared to cut to get there.

Final point - the idea of self-care always seems risible when you’re this overstretched, but you do need to find a way to make sure you’re getting something for you as well. It’s impossible not to resent others when you’re neglecting yourself. Even if it’s just five minutes a day, find them and protect them.

I’m sure you’re doing so much better than you’re giving yourself credit for.

Oh! Sorry, I typed loads already but I just thought of one final thing. My DC1 notices EVERY SINGLE THING DC2 gets but he doesn’t, and almost never notices the things/time he gets and she doesn’t. So I point it out. Not like in a guilt-inducing way or a snarky keeping-score way, just casually dropping it in “right, that baby’s asleep now, time for you and me to do blahblah”.

I agree with a PP the fact your worried about being emotionally abusive probably means you arent. I think spending some one on one time with her will be very important I know you said this is difficult for you but perhaps you can find a way ? My emotionally abusive mother made it very clear I was a nuisance she woulnt have made the effort to come and speak to me if I was sitting on the floor in my room like your daughter was in fact I was completely invisible... I think actually as well it's good parenting to fetch your husband if you find yourself struggling to cope with her rather than snap !

I want to start reading her Harry Potter as I have always wanted to share that with her but she doesn't seem hugely fussed*

Harry potter books will not be suitable for a 5 year old. They won't understand lots of it. Wait till 8 or 9 so they can enjoy it 🤷‍♀️