Partner has flip flopped on us moving back to our home towns after birth of our second child.

[Joelijane]

I met me partner in London and we've got a 3.5 yr old and 11month old boys. We initially had a plan that we would move back to our home area (we are both from near to each other in the North west) idea was, whoever got a job first could move with the kids and the other would follow asap. We both work and have similar earning potential / me probably bit more. M
Our elderly parents and wider families are in the North West too plus I have friends with kids that I count as a great support network. My mum is the younger grandma and specifically helps with childcare and would do alot of it if we wanted and were close by saving us thousands.

On the way back from the scan of our second child I said how excited I was for the future and moving and he said that it was ridiculous!!! that he has to get a job first or we can't move and that its unlikely he will as he's been looking for years. That we can move to the outskirts of London. I was beyond devastated. I have found raising the children so so hard without having that extra support but had clung to the dream plan of going back up north. Staying in London or moving to the outskirts so he can retain the same job feels beyond selfish. We cant afford to live the way we could up north, living on such a tight budget or not saving because we are stuck here for his job. Truth is i' ve loved my time here but as a new family I find it pretty unforgiving a place to live and I just want to go back home. Moving outside of London we'd have to start from scratch make new friends research where to live etc and it makes me so sad. I'm too tired to do it all again (I'm 38 and he is 46) just want to be near family and cultivate our new family life from where we are both from. We both have a great relationship with our respective families and in laws too. I am aware this flip flopping in his decision making is a trait with him but this is too big to let go! And i don't know how to move forwards.

NB My job is much more transferable than his which is why idea of me moving first and securing employment was a sound plan.

Has anyone been in my situation please? What realistically can i do? Coukd I suggest I do the original plan and go back up north and see if he will follow? I want him to be with us, I want my family together. I don't think I'll be ok to stay as a family down south if he doesnt agree to go.

Any help, tips, ideas or insights very much appreciated xxx

OP,
The earlier in your children's lives that you move the better I think.

Very hard on MH to live somewhere that you don't want to be.

The few people I know who have done it because of their husband's preferences, deeply regret it and are now unhappy in their marriages because of the resentment they feel.

Do not drift along with this.
Make your plan.

Yes, I feel an urgency to it all because of their ages, thank you x

His needs and wants don't trump yours (and vice versa).

However I understand the need to be slower to your family and friends and support structure.

I think your marriage will most likely end, because you’re so (understandably) unhappy and he doesn’t care, so long as he’s happy. There’s only going to be so long that you’ll be able to hide that resentment. I agree with the other posters, move now before the kids get much older. You’ll get all the ‘what about the dad?’ Comments, but he doesn’t give a shit about the mum, so..

I was talking to a friend who is in your exact situation yesterday, how funny. They have 2 smallish children, she has always made it clear that she wanted to move back to her home town while any children were small, and now he says he doesn’t want to go. He also wants to get married. They’re still discussing it, but she’s standing firm, saying she’d love to get married, but she also wants to move and (tacitly at the moment, I think) implying that she wants their little family to stay together, but if she had to choose, her parents, sister and nephews would weigh heavier in the balance than he would. It’s not a choice everyone would make, but it’s the choice she’d make if push came to shove. I think her advice to you would be, keep talking, but keep standing firm. Don’t give up what you want (and made clear that you wanted) for him, and make your own plan to make it happen (as PPs have suggested). Perhaps he will go along with the plan once you’ve made it. Perhaps he won’t. But at least if you do split, you’ll already be where you want to be. It’s not selfish to want your life to be a certain way.

OP I feel your pain!! I've had a similar issue, always the excuse 'there's no jobs' but not actually looking...if you want it to happen you need to make it happen. He'll either come with you or he won't. Good luck, I hope you make the move

Very insightful, so very similar, thank you xx

I think that posters advising you to leave/move away are being unreasonable. Neither of you is wrong here, and there are mitigating circumstances on both sides.

From your perspective you will have more childcare/support, but these things are never guaranteed, and the promises someone else makes don’t necessarily come to fruition when the time comes.

From his perspective, and from a work perspective, we’re about to head into the biggest recession in living memory, and it is naive to think that you can simply move and get another job, especially to the north where work is far more scarce not to mention the difference in salary.

In the current climate I’d be very reticent of moving too. If you’ve both been in the same jobs for years then you have far greater security e.g. entitlement to redundancy etc than you would if you just quit your current jobs and moved into new ones.

You must move before schools. Otherwise he really will have that against you and it will be harder in law.

For this reason, you need to start researching schools and areas where you want to live. Do not engage with any discussions about continuing to live in London. Don’t be rude, but don’t engage.

Also, don’t try to persuade him. Instead, continue to repeat your agreement - that it depends on jobs. Arrange your job, arrange somewhere to live and then ask him to make his arrangements.

Do not enter into a new agreement and do not agree to move somewhere else in London. You are right to want to bring your DC up where there is family and support. Don’t waiver or you will regret it.

Just one more word on your DH saying moving is “ridiculous”. This, to me, is unacceptable. As I said, it’s not selfish to want your life to be a certain way. And you wanting to be near family does NOT make you lame, or boring, or unadventurous, or weak. Community, which is what you’re talking about with your family and friends and familiar things, is SO important. It’s human nature to want to be part of a community, particularly now you’ve had children.

(Disclaimer: I had a boyfriend once who ridiculed my various desires for how I wanted my life to be, on the grounds that they were parochial, so I feel very strongly about this! Feel free to ignore if irrelevant!?

This thread is quite shocking tbh-a load of posters almost gleefully encouraging the Op to move her children across the country away from their dad. It’s quite unpleasant actually. They are 50% his and they need both their parents to be around.

OP you need to properly discuss this with your DH, perhaps with counselling involved, to properly understand each other’s point of view. If neither of you change your mind then sadly you are likely to end up either resentful or separated, or both. However, unfortunately you take a risk when you have kids in any geographical location that your circumstances will change and you can’t just up sticks. I can fully understand why you want to move back ‘home’ but the priority has to be keeping the children having a functioning day to day relationship with both their parents. They won’t have that if you move them hundreds of miles from their dad. How would you feel if he was considering taking them away from you?

@AlternativePerspective makes some very valid points too. Of course it’s shit if your DH has changed his mind about something you have planned together but ultimately no one is bound by a signed and sealed contract when they make plans. Things change, life changes, and he isn’t necessarily wrong for no longer wanting the same things as you. It’s where you go from here that you need to focus on, with your kids best interest at heart.

Firstly, make sure you are certain of the move back home and test if you will have family support, not just assuming.

If so then I think you should plan for it. Discuss it with him, state what actions you are taking for jobs and follow through. He may rightly be concerned about job security especially in current climate so do listen to that. I moved to my home area and definitely was the best option.

Agree that posters are being incredibly thoughtless and unreasonable advising the OP to just uproot her kids because it’s what she wants.

I can only imagine how the thread would go if a poster posted that her DH wanted to move and was planning to do so without her because it was what he wanted.

There is 0 evidence that the children will be better off living somewhere else, but there’s plenty of evidence that they will be worse off without both parents in their lives.

OP you could move today and your mum could be taken seriously ill and incapacitated tomorrow.

Given you live so far away I imagine she doesn’t have any experience of providing a lot of childcare, and when it comes down to it the suggestion is likely to differ immensely from the reality, and you may find she’s not as keen as she seemed to be, and you’ll then be on your own, a single parent of two kids with the same element of support you had before you left.

You both need to have an adult conversation about this, not simply decide that it’s what you want or he doesn’t.

Rainy that’s a mischaracterisation of this scenario. The DH is very welcome to move too. What he may not do, though, is unilaterally renege on a joint plan, seemingly without having really tried to make it work. It’s a classic bait and switch, which can never be ok. (The OP has he has form for this too, which makes it doubly unacceptable, IMO).

@dramadromedary but they made those plans when we weren’t in a global pandemic and heading into the biggest recession possibly in living memory. Life changes and the best decision now might not be what it was in the past or will be down the line. Saying he’s welcome to go too is just awful, it’s blackmail by threatening to take his kids away ‘or else’. I’m no legal expert but I really can’t see family courts taking kindly to the mother in this situation if he decided to fight for custody on the basis that she was acting to sabotage his parental relationship with them by insisting on a move away where they have no established roots or job security. I just hate these threads where fathers are spoken about like some kind of optional part of the family. They’re not. The kids need their dad and the potential damage of her taking them away from him could be huge. I imagine the OP may have arguments why he’s not essential to the kids, why her plan is better for them, but I find it hard to believe her motives aren’t fundamentally about what she wants and not what is best for the kids.

it’s not a plan though until actual steps are being made to make it happen. At this point it is merely an intention which was thought about some time ago, and now things have changed.

Me and my now eXH had a “plan” to move to Australia some years back. We did actually do the research and were quite far along, but then I fell pregnant, and bingo, the plan had to be changed.

It is unfair to hold someone to something that was discussed some years back because life is ever changing.

Moving areas and jobs in the current climate with two preschoolers is IMO incredibly stupid, and only a fool would even consider it.

rainy OP's DH had already called her dream "ridiculous" long before COVID came along. It may be relevant NOW, but he performed the bait and switch on the way home from the preganancy scan of her now-11 month old:

On the way back from the scan of our second child I said how excited I was for the future and moving and he said that it was ridiculous!!!

alternative but you BOTH changed the plan, right? Not just one of you? (And, see previous - the events the OP reports happened before the pandemic was even on the horizon.)

I am also in the camp that it is quite selfish to just uproot the kids and move them up is your H doesn’t want to move.
(Also you might lose the kids this way [legally], and undoubtedly damage them with the upheaval).
Yes, he may have said he wants to move to please you and because he didn’t think it’s actually happening. And yes, he is allowed to change his mind too.
Ultimately - marriage is about two people trying to find a solution that works for both, not just one.
For now - you seem to be prioritising your needs over his. And also - clearly not taking into account his work situation.
Saying he can just commute back to London, stay over there and see you/kids on weekends/few days - is also selfish. Is will affect his life in a dramatic fashion in order so that you can have an easier time.

I think in your situation - given that your job is easily movable and his isn't - it’s more fair to wait for him to get a job over there that he is happy with. So that he can continue to contribute to the family budget (which I am sure he is concerned with) and not have to be spending hours commuting.

Other than that - plenty of people live in London or suburbs with the kids and without extended family. Both of you must have been here for years and must have put down roots - so whether or not you have friends and support network is really down to you.

He’d changed his mind, yes. None of us really know why, we’re hearing the outline of the story from someone else’s perspective. I think it’s an assumption to call it bait and switch. He changed his mind, yes. Whether that was his intention all along we can’t possibly know. It’s also uncertain how much he and OP were ever on the same page about their plans. He may have seen the discussions as pie in the sky fantasising, while she saw it as actual intentions. That’s why I’m saying they need to communicate and fully get to the bottom of the issues. It may be that she can’t get past this and leaves him but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do to deprive the children of their father. Whatever anyone says, you cant be a proper parent from across the other side of the country.

Yes, he may have said he wants to move to please you and because he didn’t think it’s actually happening.

And that's ok, is it? Another example: "Yeah, yeah, sure I want to marry you. Definitely. Just not right now, ok? In a few years, when XXXX has happened/ when we've saved up for a deposit/ when you start having sex with me more/ when you're not so crazy."

Fuck no, that's not ok!!

I think frank discussions and researching jobs is my planned first step. Then i can see how he feels with it all. I was motivated to post on here due to mental health crises so please using selfish is minimising of that part of the picture. I love my partner i just want more support than i currently have and see the move as providing that. My mum has been with the children alot before pandemic and is very active part of there life as much as is possible with the distance. Where we are now we only have each other to rely on and its not enough.

OP I fully sympathise if you’re having mental health issues. However, if you’re in a mental health crisis then it compounds my view that taking your children away from their father is a terrible idea. They, and you, need his support. You can’t, however, use health issues to require him to move where you want to live. That would be hugely unfair. I really hope you can find a resolution and get the help and support you need. Could your mum come and stay for a bit if you’re in crisis? Have you called any external agencies for emergency support?

Sorry i should add, its more about sleep dep from bf'ing the youngest at night and and looking after 2 young children then in lockdown rather than a specific crises as such. It's just accumulative consequence of living away from support and current circumstances.