Husband is a disaster

[Alittlebitofbasil]

Sorry if this is a long one - I feel like I need to rant! To give you some background, DH and I have been together for 20 years. Met at university in our final year just after his dad died. I went on to do a masters, he did nothing with his degree, I think he was very lost after his DF died and didn’t really deal with it.

He flitted from low paid job to low paid job, not using any of his qualifications. He worked in sales and was fired on several occasions for not hitting targets, including when I was pregnant with DS2. In the meantime, I worked my way up in my industry and did well in my career. l went part time after DS1 was born. We never had any money though as I was always paying off our credit cards, supporting him if he was out of work or supplementing his poor income. Fast forward to two years ago: he finally got a job he was good at and suddenly we had a lot of money. I thought our lives had finally changed for the better and our relationship was the best it had been in years and we were happy. And then he got fired again. He did find a new job the same week which paid well and in the same sector so the stress was short lived. However, I was angry at him for losing yet another job. I also discovered he’s in £12000 of debt as he’s been putting extra money in our account to look like he’d paid more than he actually is. This is ridiculous as he actually has a very good salary but a bit lower than his previous one.

His former employer is now trying to claim from him £50000 in commission earned on contracts that have now been cancelled. So DH has disputed this and we are now £6000 into solicitor’s fees (the tip of the iceberg) whilst awaiting to hear a tribunal date. We’ve no savings so have had to borrow money on the house to pay towards the legal fees.

I’m just so fed up of him fucking up again. I feel like we lurch from one disaster to another, with some nice times in between. He’s a brilliant dad, very kind and caring and would do anything for me and DS’s. When I suffered from depression a couple of years ago, he really was my rock and supported me through it and I can honestly say he’s my best friend. But I’m not sure how many more chances I can give him. Is it too much to ask that he holds down a steady job without any drama or incidences? I’ve told him to get some counselling to help him break this pattern and to maybe think about working for himself but deep down, I’m not sure he can change. Do I give up on someone I love and break the family up because he’s a disaster at work and the cause of much stress in our lives?

You need good advice, particularly on how a potential bankruptcy could affect any house you own together.

Have you actually seen the Court papers?

His former employer is now trying to claim from him £50000 in commission earned on contracts that have now been cancelled.
Bullshit. Unless he invented non existent contracts to obtain commission by deception? He's lying like a pro, to everyone.

Get divorced and get the house in your name.
Your DH is a liability.

Ah OP I thought your were my best friend posting at first. She is in a similar position.

He will never change. Ever. Can you go in like this in to your retirement always having to sort out his fuck ups.

She won’t leave because of the kids but is desperately unhappy.

You could end financially ruined over this and I’d quickly try to separate yourself from it. Even if it’s only on paper.

I know people who divorced over things like this in order to secure their children's financial future. You need proper advice about how to separate finances even if just on paper, perhaps through a divorce or perhaps not, in order to get your house and assets properly protected. It might be too late for some actions already.

I work in sales, more than 20 years and have never come across the situation regards £50k. Have you talked about how to repay it if you lose? Is it £50k after tax? If so it’s closer to £90k plus legal costs

Oh God. What was his degree in? Sounds like he's in totally the wrong field!! Obviously, I don't know him, bug he might have lied to you because he felt such shame about not bringing more money in.

Is he in sales? If so, this is a tough field. It only suits a very certain kind of person, and he doesn't sound like that kind of person. Part of him has learnt to adapt, but it's showing that he is not meant for those roles. Have you discussed alternative jobs with him? He might not want to discuss it because he's focused on his current success, but it's very important that you do. He'll keep messing up at this rate. I feel so bad for you, but for him too.

Also, other people here seem to be more clued up with regards to his job than I am. I agree with many of them that you have to legally separate yourself from him. That is EXTREMELY important. I know of a couple that divorced and one of the main reasons is that her husbands family business was ruined by an outside party. They didn't want the house to be put in jeopardy. You have kids to think about as well.

Ohh I’d be fuming!!!!!! How dare he be so rash and irresponsible when he has children at home?! I’d be finding out EXACTLY what happened with the 50k debacle, divorcing and separating finances immediately. Stay together if you wish but put the children first for goodness sake. If you work full time and secure a house on your own, they will always have a roof over their head. This man is a total mess.

I had one like him.
I don't any more.
I had to cut him loose before he pulled me down with him.

It sounds like former employer suspects some kind of conspiracy to defraud. E.g. cancelling contracts costs very little to end user but generated commission to sales person who leaves/gets sacked before it catches up.
Seriously, sever that connection.

Ok quickest here is a legal separation as with costs you could be looking at 80k plus here with the court case and you may have to sell your house to pay. I'm sure he will agree that's the best thing to do to protect your house? If he doesn't hes worse then suspected.

Maybe try and ramp up to you going back to work OP? It sounds like your DH is not v good with keeping steady in the job, compounded with his field being very volatile. But he seems like he tries hard and has other good points. Having a good conversation with him and demanding absolute honesty would be good - he needs to know that you consider it a dealbreaker.

You have to accept that he isn’t good at some things though and try and see what you can do to mitigate (eg start training/looking for job, reduce expenses, see if anyone can help with childcare).

I was with a man just like this. We ended up in over 100k of debt that I clawed our way out of.
He then tried working for himself - never worked.
Best thing I did was to leave. I am poor but my bills are paid each month and I have certainty.
Leave now and don't look back, it won't change x

The issue of the 50K sounds really off to me. I cannot imagine how such a situation could arise.
Supposedly DH made sales and earned commission on these sales. The contracts were later cancelled and therefore he has to pay the commission back a couple of years later?? That really doesn't sound right.
Have you seen the court papers or been in any legal meetings with him?

As for the 12K... have I understood this correctly? DH was paying money into a bank account (your joint account perhaps). This sum of money was more than what he was actually earning. To make it look better he was taking out loans/debt somewhere else and using this to pay into the joint account.
If he can so easily come up with a scheme like this to basically lie to you about his earnings, I wouldn't be surprised if there had been something dodgy going on at work too which ended up with a legal case.

I think you either don't know the full story yourself or you aren't telling us on Mumsnet because you don't want to make DH look even worse.

You need to get to the bottom of what is going on with that legal case before you make any definite decisions. I couldn't be with someone who had defrauded an employer for example.

Hang on, how come if he's so bad with money and jobs and everything, he earns twice what you do? I know financial compensation is not everything, but you say at the start you were busy carving a career for yourself, then you went part-time, relying on him to provide a full-time income, despite his background. And now you say you can't afford to have him go part-time and you go full-time because even full-time you'd earn so much less than him?

Something's a bit off here. I think both if you were financially irresponsible at least.

@FancyPants20

Hang on, how come if he's so bad with money and jobs and everything, he earns twice what you do? I know financial compensation is not everything, but you say at the start you were busy carving a career for yourself, then you went part-time, relying on him to provide a full-time income, despite his background. And now you say you can't afford to have him go part-time and you go full-time because even full-time you'd earn so much less than him?

Something's a bit off here. I think both if you were financially irresponsible at least.

Sounds like a significant portion of his "earnings" were falsified commission payments.

Sadly my ex husband did this for 20 years, constantly in and out of work, running up credit cards and debt, hiding bills and totally irresponsible with money.
When he left me for another woman it was a blessed relief, at last I could deal with money sensibly and for the first time in ages slepp properly knowing all the bills were paid and no debtors would be knocking at my door.
If I were you I'd call it a day and get rid of him and this stress. You know he will never change.

On the legal case it looks like he may have claimed commission based on solid contracts but perhaps wrote side letters or amended terms so that the contracts had termination clauses.

Have you seen the letters?

Also do you have very high living costs or did commission make up most of his salary? £25k net is quite substantial commission.

He sounds like a good guy who has supported you emotionally but he is not a good financial provider. Maybe you both need to he realistic and get him to focus on a job that he will be able to do without the pressure of sales.