I don't know if I can fit into Mumsnet .

[JustthisOnce333]

I read some of these threads and I'm astonished that some posters are really quite cheeky and confronting. I'm the kind of person who makes an effort to be nice and kind and I'd rather say nothing than something that might hurt another's feelings

So... Serious question. Should I get some thicker skin and realise this is the way of the world?

Or should I make efforts to stay as I am. I could equally be described as gentle and kind or a pathetic walkover.

I have had mixed experiences. I posted on here a few weeks ago about needing the courage to leave my marriage and received very kind, thoughtful and helpful advice and support which really made me face up to my reality.

however, I came back on last week to update that I was half way there with ending my relationship but still had some way to go as he was still in the house. I don't have many friends or family and I really just needed to share. I was really disappointed to be met with really vitriolic and in my opinion nasty and unhelpful responses. I was made to feel like a fool and it reduced me to tears, making me sink back inside myself and feeling alone. i'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, I'm not looking for acceptance, just to talk but I was shouted out and to all intents and purposes told I was a idiot for not leaving.

in my original post almost everyone was very adamant that there was emotional abuse in my relationship. so if that is the case, surely there should be some understanding of how hard it is to leave an abusive relationship? if I disclosed I was being beaten on a regular basis, would you all be as quick to condemn me if I said I found it hard to leave?

so no OP, don't expect every response on here to be kind and supportive. but please don't change, the world needs kind and gentle people. just be aware of when the time might be for you to step away from the board.

and there you go ...

I do feel that sometimes it can help when people tell the OP that their actions are abusive to the kids instead of going: "oh honey, it's okay, of course you were right". A lot of the mumsnet harshness that I read is actually meant to protect the children.

@PerditaProvokesEnmity

I'm astonished that some posters are really quite cheeky and confronting.

cheeky? That's a word that implies speaking from a subordinate position. (See photo!) But we are not children - there is no element of cheekiness in adults saying what they believe to be true.

You hardly need me to tell you that without confrontation women in England might still not have the right to vote, or to demand equal pay. And many, many women on this site might be living with no rights at all.

I'm the kind of person who makes an effort to be nice and kind and I'd rather say nothing than something that might hurt another's feelings

Why are you unwilling to take up your own space in the adult world? It seems a rather selfish way to live. Are you certain that your inaction or silence has never led to damage to another person's quality of life?

there we go - my case in point. aggressive, confrontational, unnecessary. why on earth do you need to respond in this manner? Can't you have a discussion like an adult without resorting to making the OP feel badly about themselves?

I quite like the difference between the harsh and gentler comments. Not everyone needs handled with kid gloves.

Isn't it lucky, stephrose03, that I'm the one who gets to decide what I write - rather than you?

It is surely blindingly evident that far too many people sit comfortably and quietly when they could do more.

But what PerditaProvokesEnmity said is actually true.

Sometimes its helpful to hear a perspective that challenges your own position.

I will always aim to he kind but I never aim to be 'nice'.

I think it depends OP.
Do you feel like people take advantage of you.
Do you feel like you always give and get nothing back?
If not and everything in your world is fine and equal then you don't need to change one little bit!

PerditaProvokesEnmity you can be right in an argument, but the way you put your point across matters. you can be a critical friend and challenge people, nothing wrong with that at all. I am saying perhaps there are occasions where you need to watch your phrasing and choice of words. it's all every well saying 'im just being honest' but honesty without kindness is just cruelty.

you never know what kind of day people are having when they come on here asking for support and this trend of leaping down peoples throats can often make people feel much worse. For the sake of a little sensitivity, it's not too much to ask to think about what you are saying? or is it?

@CheshireChat is spot on... AIBU can get vicious, but most other places are quite friendly

@stephrose03 I get what you mean, but I thought that poster's comment was interesting.

I could equally be described as gentle and kind or a pathetic walkover.

If so then this isn't good. I was/am a bit of a people pleaser and I want(ed) people to like me. Because I didn't know how to assert myself properly, some pretty unpleasant stuff happened to me and I did nothing about it.

Also, my mum hates confrontation. This meant that our dad could behave however he wanted and she condoned it by saying nothing/pandering to him. It also meant I get 'struck dumb' when someone acts badly and can't say what I want to say (messenger/text is a blessing as nowadays I can communicate after the event and say it wasn't ok etc- in theory!)

Kind is ok, maybe gentle is too, but it's all a balance and sometimes you have to say something's not ok, for the sake of yourself or others.

It's great to be kind and abide by "if you've nothing nice to say, don't", never change 😁. I think more people should be considerate for others, but a thick skin comes in handy....
I'm new to Mumsnet but do see quite a bit of judgement on here both ways. Some people are more assertive and it's taken as an attack, when to me it just reads like respectful disagreement. Tone isn't easy to get across... Usually people in general are nice enough if you assume they mean it kindly and respond with openness and kindness. Otherwise ignore them it's their problem not yours 🙂.

@nomoredickheads I absolutely agree. I too was bought up to run away from any confrontation and was never taught to stand up for myself. it's take me 45 years to learn how to do it, so I am very mindful of raising my dd differently. however I also raise her to be kind, and be thoughtful of others feelings. I firmly believe as an adult you should be able to do both - stand up for yourself but also have an awareness of how you go about it.

I have often recommended MN to friends and most of them say "ooh no, too scary!" or something to that effect. But what I absolutely love about MN is the forthrightness, the sweariness, the fact you can discuss absolutely anything - and I don't just mean shocking things, I mean that for every topic you'll find knowledgable / interested people, like the recent chat about fonts.

Yes some people can be rude and dismissive, but there is so much more in the way of wit, warmth and support. I think I do have a thick skin though. I don't care if someone disagrees with me or is rude to me. Ideally I'd prefer a calm discussion but I like the fact that this isn't an echo chamber and there are lots of really good discussions between people who don't agree.

However as PPs say if a situation does upset you and affect your MH, you don't have to put yourself through it

There are certain topics that I avoid like the plague on here - weight, body image, mental health - because there are a lot of people with ignorant and hurtful opinions on those things. I don't read such threads and I'd never start one myself (except on the Mental Health board). I think it's a case of knowing what is likely to upset you and avoiding it accordingly.

For those who are saying that Relationships is "nicer" than AIBU, I'm not so sure. I once started a thread about a silly crush I had on my married boss at the time, asking for tips on getting over it without compromising my position at work, and I got a lot of very nasty replies implying that I was actually trying to start an affair with him and looking for excuses to talk about him. I was told to grow up, stop being so unprofessional, stay away from other women's husbands etc... mind you, judging by the number of threads I see on here where women are unhappy about their partners having any form of contact with female colleagues, perhaps that topic just touches a nerve.

You also get a lot of "if this was a man posting about his wife, there would be an outcry, MN hypocrisy at its finest" type replies in Relationships. Even if they have a point, it's fuck-all use to the OP and their issue.

I found that posters response to be aggressive as well. Of course that person can decide what they can post but basically it just proved what the poster was saying.

A little bit of empathy can go a long way and it's also not for others to decide that someone could do with getting a thick skin. Not everyone is made that way and people should be mindful of that.

I know that perhaps a large percentage of people wouldn't dare talk in that tone to someone you don't know. Just because people are hidden behind a screen does not mean that manners can also be used.

I'm also a little confused to the poster who says I try to be kind but they don't try to be nice? Isn't this term interchangeable?

Surely by being kind is to be nice. And to the be the above, doesn't this include manners?

I think I just realise that some humans are incapable of changing and these same people are the type that will post be kind then go off on someone forgetting their manners.

Please remember that there are real people on the end of these posts and not everyone is you. Just because you can take it, not everyone else can.

Oh yes, the what about the menz / if the sexes were reversed stuff irritates me. It's just mindless agenda-chasing, gotcha-ing instead of addressing the person's post. There are gazillions of websites dominated by men's voices, it's good to have places with a primarily female perspective.

The reason I am even considering starting posting on Mumsnet and have started is thread is because I do want to start finding my voice and being part of standing up for things that I believe in. I do have a very strong set of ethics and morals and I am sure my way of being has never intentionally hurt others.

But, equally, I suppose I'm from a family of woman who were overtly aggressive with their words and I learned that keeping quiet was both safer and sometimes kinder.

And yes if I put on a thread that I was hurt by something and I got overly critisised for it , it would hurt.

Sometimes, in a thread , there can be a lot of the same type of negative comments and I think to myself, "okay the OP got that feedback already in spades, is there anything else now that can be said?"
Or just say nothing.

Also, I sometimes think a theme can sometimes be set on the threads , like one thing is focused on , which sometimes misses the question the OP asked.

But the wealth of support and kindness when the OP is obviously hurt and struggling can be beautiful and I can imagine very meaningful to the OP.

I believe that you can't judge another's life unless you've walked in their shoes , therefore I believe even critical advice should be given kindly, or if I'm unable to do that then not at all. But we are all different and I appreciate that we are and that is why I asked in my original OP Should I change? And not Should Mumsnet change?

So... I got a bit of critical feedback and although I was a little bit upset , I didn't collapse in a heap on the floor! So I'm actually quite happy just now .

Thank you so much everyone .

You'll fit in just fine. We have every type of personality here and it's good.

I agree about avoiding AIBU. It can be a bit harsh at times but the other parts are great.

The confidence of some of the women has rubbed off on me.
Not in being mean or anything like that but knowing that I matter too and to ask for what I want.

"Be kind" at the expense of everything else is a key part of female socialisation. It is unhealthy to avoid standing up for what you believe to be right because other people might be annoyed.

Here's a test: can you cope with a man being in a grump and you doing precisely nothing to fix him or comfort him? Can you think to yourself "yeah you should be feeling bad about that mate" and maybe even say it?

I wish more people would decide not to contribute when the thing they wanted to say has already been said! I'm like you, if the thing I'd like to contribute has already been covered, I don't bother jumping on just to echo what's gone before.

I see a lot of important positive things happening on MN- from small things to big, trivial to vital. Every kind of person joining in makes it a valuable resource!

I'm learning about emotional labour though, that I don't have to be kind to people just because it's expected. Usually I am- I'm very Community minded, do a lot of volunteer type work. However, some people demand kindness when they don't offer it or deserve it and I'm learning to resist the pull to endlessly support them!

Ha! Cross posted with the last two posters who said what I wanted to say but better! Typical!

Just to clarify, I'm not kind to everyone. I don't walk around and offer kindness to everyone that I meet. But to me there are two ways of interacting with people and that is either though being supportive or not having them in my life . Does that make sense? The opposite of gentleness to me is not nastiness , it's just nothing. I am never mean to people . I have thought about it and if I try to do anything from a moral standpoint then I look to build up the side I believe in, not plot the downfall of the side I don't believe in.

Does that make sense?

And I'm happy with being like this , I've thought about it and decided that my contributions in society through doing things this way are valid.

But , I can be oversensitive and maybe lockdown has shown that more , I do want to be stronger than I am, and that will begin by putting my words out their and not being afraid of being critisised for them.

Is it normal to feel nervous when you start posting?

And thank you again everyone , I love that you all took the time to give me your viewd and you have given me an excellent framework to begin with. I will start posting and see where it goes.