Daughter says she never wants to see her dad again

[chocolatesaltyballs22]

So I have posted about my ex and his relationship with our daughter a few times. Long story short, he is emotionally abusive, manipulative and controlling, and has started to turn his behaviour onto her now that I no longer engage with him. We've been divorced for over 9 years and she is almost 17.

She used to spend 3 nights a week with him and then he moved further away to live with his new partner, plus she got a part time job near my house, so she reduced contact to one night a week (her decision). He has never been happy with this and repeatedly tries to emotionally blackmail her into seeing him more, tells her he's disappointed with her (repeatedly) because she doesn't want to spend more time with him. Basically treats her like she's still 7 years old and the original contact order should still apply forever. She hasn't seen him at all during lockdown (again, her decision) but when she was staying there before he would leave 'her' room in a tip and not change the sheets after he had slept in it (his partner kicked him out of their room due to his snoring).

His partner is also pregnant and the baby is being induced today, so the latest is he messages her (after a huge row the other night which ended up with her upset) to say 'today I'm going to be a dad.' She was like erm hello...you're already a dad?! I think this is just the final straw for her and she's just told me she never wants to see him again (however she does want to see the baby and be part of it's life so it's very difficult).

I don't know what to do - would you leave her to make her own decisions or try to encourage her to maintain her relationship with him for the sake of the new baby if nothing else? I have tried to reason with him but it falls on deaf ears. He is a classic case of never being wrong no matter how much of an arse he is being.

I remember the previous posts by this poster and it’s Not all on the dad.. the OP has a equal share in the blame and posters need to read her old posts before just blaming the dad.

@LemonTT - totally agree.

I'm not sure how I'm equally to blame for my ex being an abusive arsehole but whatever...

@Gutterton this is the first relationship he's held down for longer than 6 months since we split. I think his partner was having doubts about him as she messaged me a few times, and then she got pregnant so I guess she was stuck. My daughter thinks he coerced her into the pregnancy. She's over 40 with two teens, and he's well over 50. I'm not saying that people don't start again with babies at that age, but it's unusual.

I don't see an issue here

Let her make her own mind up

I’d encourage your DD to build a relationship with the baby’s mother so she can stay in touch with her sibling.

Yes Glowcat that is would be good advice to the DD.

What did she message you about?? That seems odd to me.

He sounds like he feels entitled to time with his daughter and although that would be great, in reality it's difficult when dad is 50+ and daughter is 17 and he has not been a permanent fixture since she was much younger. Just being a parent doesn't always buy you time with your offspring but some feel it should be given especially if they have invested money eg school fees, holidays etc. He needs to let your daughter have some space

Maybe you could get her the book - Toxic Parents - by Susan Forward. I’ve seen it mentioned often here and she might take in the advice from a 3rd party so to speak.

I’m the daughter of a dad like what you’ve said. Around similar age to your daughter I started naturally creating space. To be honest I always felt forced to bother when I actually didn’t really want to. It wasn’t a parent child relationship, it was manipulative and he was often more interested in everything else.

I made a decision at 20 and haven’t looked back since. If your daughter is being manipulated she must set boundaries in place. It’s imperative she has boundaries so she knows what she will and won’t accept. Also so she can be aware to his behaviour. It seems like she’s doing a good job. She needs space from him right now then she has to have it, she shouldn’t be made to feel less than as he’s having another child. Whilst she’s prepared to celebrate the baby, it doesn’t seem that he’s happy to celebrate her as a young woman, my advice is to limit contact if it’s toxic it’s not worth her self esteem, future relationships etc

To the person who commented on OP is to blame, when abuse is present in a household and their is a single perpetrator then there is every right to protect herself and her children in anyway sees fit. If she’s made things difficult then it’s within her right as a mother to protect her children and herself. Coercion changes people, for a very long time, fathers (or mothers) who are coercive have no rights in my opinion.

Thanks @BF888 that's really helpful, and you're absolutely right that everything I've done has been done to protect my daughter. It took me a long time to become myself again after coming out of a very toxic relationship and I don't want the same for her. I find it offensive when people say I am somehow to blame.

His new partner messaged me when my daughter and her dad were arguing a lot at her house. She recognised that he was the cause and it was along the lines of 'has he always been like this?'

I would encourage her to keep up the discussion with her stepmother as it sounds as if that relationship might be short lived anyway. Could she get a second phone so she just looks at the messages from her father once a week. Avoid him intruding into her life all the time.

I know you say that he's emotionally abusing but where is the actual abuse here? He left her room in a 'tip'? It's her room! Her job to tidy it. The sheets thing he should have washed but it's not abuse. You're nit picking at his words saying he's already a dad. Why didn't you just say 'he means Dad again' instead of digging a bigger chip on your daughter's shoulder? He sounds like he's trying to be in her life and you're alienating him when you should be encouraging their relationship. Girls self esteem suffer greatly when they believe they've been rejected by their fathers and it leads to all sorts of problems with their own relationships

I'm sorry @chubbyhotchoc but unless you've been in an abusive relationship yourself I'm afraid you have no idea. I'm not going into minute detail about everything he's said and done to her so that people believe me. He controlled me our whole married life and now he's trying to do the same to her in many many ways. I recognise the behaviour, and I shouldn't need to post it on here chapter and verse in order to get advice. Your reply is very ill-informed.

@chocolatesaltyballs22 others here have said you've previously posted and you have had you're part in this. I can only go on what I see here and not tidying a teenager's room doesn't not make him a useless father. Whatever tugs of war have gone on between a couple should not effect her relationship with her dad. For what it's worth I do know about abuse. My own father physically and emotionally abused me. Doesn't know when my birthday is, couldn't name a friend I've ever had. He's not a dad. What you've written here sounds like someone desperate to be in her life.

Chubbyhotchoc it is very much not ok to minimise other peoples experience of abuse. Especially to then portray the abuser ( of whom we know very little so you have no idea whether he is genuine or manipulative ) as "meaning well".

Seriously very very much not on to undermine someone else when they state this.

Emotional and psychological abuse presents differently in different people. Often it is a pattern of behaviour that can be devastating overall but seem small at the time. I had this with my DP and it makes me angry that other people felt it was ok to minimize it. As adults most people who know me know are very aware of the reality of how damaging it can be.

If he was genuine then a true parent would understand they need to give space when needed and not use emotional blackmail to get their DC to see them.

@Shinyletsbebadguys but she's not given any examples of emotional abuse other than him supposedly not washing a sheet so how can anyone advise? Also if he gave the girl 'space' the op would be posting about how he's never bothered with his child? He's damned both ways apparently. I think it's highly unfair for anyone based only on what the op had written to say he needs to be cut out.

Hi @chocolatesaltyballs22, I went through the same thing with my daughter and her dad. He put the thumb screws on her about his 'entitlements' as her dad and made her feel really guilty if she didn't do what he wanted including trying to manipulate her against me. It was very painful to watch but I kept out of it and let her make her own decisions about him.

I had to step in when his girlfriend, who had taken a dislike to her, lashed out at her one day, was totally verbally abusive and aggressive towards her and her dad just stood there and let it happen. My daughter decided she didn't want to stay anymore from that day although she tried to maintain a relationship with him.

My ex-husband still tried to blame me for the breakdown of his relationship with his daughter but he had absolutely nothing to go on. She made up her own mind about it. So my advice to you is to let your daughter decide what she wants to do. She's old enough and if you keep out of it you won't influence her thinking.

Unfortunately a lot of' 'bad' husbands make poor fathers because they lack empathy and are selfish. There's little you can do to fix it no matter how much you want to, to protect your children.

Just FYI if she never saw him again it would not bother me in the slightest. I would not be posting about him 'not bothering with his child.' Especially since said child used to frequently call me from his house very upset and asking to be picked up because of his behaviour. Again, I'm not going into detail. My original post talked about him controlling how much she sees him despite the fact that she's almost an adult. But on the one night she did see him he did nothing but complain at her and tell her he was disappointed. If you want to see you daughter more then most logical people would make the most of that time with them and make sure they're happy and valued when they're with you. Not have the other parent pick her up because your behaviour has pushed her away.

Anyway I'm probably rambling because I'm more than a bit annoyed at the insinuation that I'm keeping her away from him. I came on to ask for advice as to whether I should encourage her to maintain a relationship so I'm confused as to how you've drawn that conclusion @chubbyhotchoc.

Thanks to those who have given me really helpful advice.

@chocolatesaltyballs22 you said I have done so much coaching with her to try and make her understand that none of this is her fault, she is an awesome young lady, it's all on him and he will never change etc. It's sinking in, I think.
You've done a lot of work to make sure she understands 'it's all on him'. Doesn't sound much like you e tried to encourage a positive relationship. More like you've tried to make a monster of him

Shiny, in her previous posts the OP has demonstrated she is either unwilling or unable to process a situation any better than a sixteen year old. This is the support a parent should be able to give to a young person who is going through a life significant change with the birth of her sibling.

The original post centred around a hysterical notion that the daughter was going to be expected to share a room with the new borne baby until the father and his wife moved. At the time no one could get the OP to see that this was never going to be case. By the second post the OP completely undermined this by revealing that the daughter used a downstairs conversion as her bedroom. Which showed just how completely ridiculous the original post was. That’s when we got the sheet scandal along with other issues on the quality of the room.

All the problems are the grumblings of a teen who is both anxious and excited to have a sister. The OP is determined to blow the anxiety out of all proportion.

OP I agree that you can’t see why you are to blame. But to an outsider, based on your side of the story, you are contributing to alienation between a child and their parent and their sibling. That’s far more damaging than having to change sheets on a bed. Which I would expect a teen to do anyway.

You don't know what you're talking about and I'm not engaging with you any longer as it's not helpful.

chubbyhotchoc my reading was that he had been using her bedroom and had messed it all up since the last time she had visited and so she was expected to tidy up after her father not that she failed to keep her own room tidy. I don't think my teenagers would be impressed if I asked them to tidy up after dh and change his sheets.

@LemonTT thanks for clarifying. Thought as much

Correct, @TW2013. And to clarify, she keeps her own bedroom tidy here and changes her own sheets. She was expected to pick up snotty tissues, clear up dirty cups and plates etc which HE had used whilst using her room. No teen should have to clean up after her father.