DD4 wants to live with dad.

[greysome]

Looking for some advice regarding my dd4. She is an only child and me and exH split up 18 months ago. When we were together he looked after her 2 days a week and was working much of the rest of the week. We did not have days off together and didn’t see much of each other evenings or mornings. I did the evening and morning stuff, and the weekend with her alone, and he had her 2 days during the week whilst I was working and he was off, if that makes sense.

Since we split up exH has daughter 2.5 days (3 nights) a week, every week. He has always been pushing for more contact but I feel it’s a reasonable split for her age and he is currently living in a caravan in his parents garden so not ideal arrangement. Potentially relevant, exH was emotionally abusive to me (although I still struggle really accepting that). DD4 has been becoming progressively upset about how much she misses daddy, and how much she wishes we were all together. This has been ongoing since we split and has intensified over the last few months. It has now reached the point where she is sobbing every evening, and on various occasions throughout the day, about how much she misses daddy and wants to be with him. She has made mention of worrying about daddy and daddy being all alone during these moment too. Therefore I have tried to reassure her of this and spoken to my ex (not easy) to ask him to reassure her he isn’t lonely. However nothing I say seems to have any impact. She tells me daily I do not love her as much as daddy does, she loves him more and she wants to be with daddy always and live with him.

I really don’t know how to respond to this. I want to validate her feelings, I want her to feel safe to talk to me and listened to, but I also don’t want to feed into this too much.

It’s happening every day. She could be having a great day or playing with friends and it still happens. She is basically inconsolable.

I would really like some advice on how to handle this? I’ve tried cuddling, reassuring, telling her she will see daddy again soon and she will always have time with daddy. I have also said it’s important for all children to have time with daddy and mummy too, and that I look forward to and enjoy my time with her as well. I try not to say I miss her or it upsets me as I really don’t want to be putting any responsibility for my feelings on to her.

I try not to make assumptions about my exH behaviour. However I did feel very responsible for his feelings during our relationship and I worry the same pattern is occurring. I am concerned about some of the things she is saying, e.g daddy says every time I see the moon to know he is missing me... which I think could be contributing. She has also said things are ‘secrets from mummy’ and about ‘going against daddy’ when she tells one of these ‘secrets’.

I guess I’m just really worried about losing her. Of course I’m upset on a personal level about what she says but I can handle that separately. It’s just so hard seeing her breaking her heart on a daily basis and not knowing what to do. Any advice would be much appreciated

In her head for reasons that you can work out for yourself. It's poor Daddy is all by himself. Mummy has DP so she doesn't need me but Daddy does.

How you choose to equal that equation out is for you.

My DDs felt like that at that age and for a long time. They haven't spoken to theIr Dad for 5 year. He threatened to beat them with avarions things. It was their choice supported by me and the courts.

Your job is to be properly honest with her, because she needs a lot of tools. It's very very difficult but time to start. Her only protection is the truth. Explain everyone wants more time with her. But more time with Daddy is less with Mummy and you miss her too. As much as Daddy. That's how parents should feel. That you're sorry it's so hard for her.

That she needs to learn some really difficult things. Daddy wasn't very nice to Mummy and you need to live apart. That she needs to sometimes think why people say things. That people sometimes say things for other reasons - to make people feel sad, guilty etc.

That's the beginning but it's a long road.

As for finances, he doesn't pay any hold maintenance. According to the government calculator he should, but chooses not too. I haven't pursued this beyond our initial conversations as I was keen for him to move out of the caravan and didn't want it to be another excuse why he couldn't.

When we split up, plan was I would stay in the house, buy him out before fixed mortgage up for renewal (which I will) and I pay all mortgage, bills and maintenance of house. I couldn't buy him out immediately as I need to wait to go up a pay increment at work (he knows this). This was agreed so he has his full salary to rent somewhere for himself. Once I buy him out he will have the deposit to buy somewhere. However I suspect he won't be in a rush to do this. He choose to stay in the caravan as an immediate 'temporary' measure but has still not moved. If I bring this up (which I have several times) he's very defensive and says he cannot find somewhere to rent with his dog. I have left the topic over last few months as he is furloughed and lockdown would make moving pretty impossible.

I don't believe his aim is to have a council house or not pay maintenance - he pays none anyway and he wouldn't qualify for council house he has a reasonable paid job and knows he will have the money to buy somewhere soon.

Well I'm sure you can buy him out less calculated maintenance for starters. I thought living in a caravan was a money/unemployment thing because few people choose to even if it is that their parents.

But it seems to be a game. A rather pathetic one. I suspect his treatment of you was pretty awful and you're trying not to provoke him, but as I know whether you are nice or not makes no difference.

This type is difficult to control but pandering to them doesn't help. Neither does talking, or arguing. Sometimes the threat of serious consequences does. Also accountability - other people seeing behind the mask. Having things in the open in front of other people so that they have to do it in front of others if they want to be pricks.

That's why I thought the therapy from Cafcass could be good. It won't work of course but might rein him in as then it's official. Likewise mediation which the courts like.

I think your original question was as I imagining this or overreacting. It's a big no you are not from me. I think you have nothing to lose by clamping down hard on this now. Put him on notice if you think it will work. Tell him if it doesn't stop you wil involve the authorities and he will lose more custody. Poor you, it never ends does it?

You should be putting in a claim for that money. Whether he lives in a caravan or not is none of your business beyond whether it’s a safe place for your daughter. This is a codependent behaviour where you try to manage him. It might not be an ideal home but if it’s clean and safe then you can’t control where he lives.

I think your daughter needs counselling to help her learn she isn’t responsible for her parents feelings. You can tell your ex the truth: your DD has been talking about keeping secrets from you and has been distressed around that for some time, you’re concerned and want to get her some support. That’s all he needs to know.

Not your job to manage his life OP.

If he chooses to live in a caravan that's up to him - child maintenance is a legal obligation. His finances are nothing to do with you any more. Really try and disengage, it does you no good to be preoccupied with how he lives.

This type is difficult to control but pandering to them doesn't help. Neither does talking, or arguing. Sometimes the threat of serious consequences does. Also accountability - other people seeing behind the mask. Having things in the open in front of other people so that they have to do it in front of others if they want to be pricks.

I echo everything that Vodkacranberry has said above, and especially this piece about accountability. Please, please OP, look for outside help. He is messing up a small child, he needs to be stopped in his tracks.

I've spoken to the therapist. She agreed that there was cause for concern, and suspected that his behaviour is contributing. I did explain the other elements involved, specifically my DP moving in, and that these could also be the cause of a contribution. Therapist was keen to see my dd, and agreed that until she can see her it would only be speculation as to what is troubling her. However she cannot do any face to face sessions at the moment due to restrictions and I don't think my dd will be able to engage properly over the phone or Skype, so will have to wait for her to see her. Therapist was confident she can find out what's upsetting her when she does see her so that was somewhat comforting.

Therapist was also able to give me some reassurance about what I am saying and doing in response, which was positive. I have continued responding in the same way and I think we have had a reduction in the upset over the last week so that's been good. I have also noticed on some occasions when my daughter gets upset it seems almost forced, like she's remembered that's what she does in the evening so she should be doing it, on these occasions it's been easier to diffuse. There have been evenings of very genuine upset in there too though.

Another element of concern however, this morning DD told me (out of nowhere) that her and exH 'got into a fight in the caravan' and she said she slapped him on the back and he slapped her back hard on the arm (I have never noticed any marks on her arms). I asked what happened then and she said he told her to sit on the sofa and think about what she had done but she was scared so hid under the bed. I asked if that sort of fight had ever happened before or after and she said no. She said it happened 'a long time ago' but she has no real concept of time. I gave her a cuddle and she said ' I know you would never do that to me, would you?'.

Completely unsure how to deal with this and whether to approach him about it. I don't want it to become another 'secret' and I'm pleased dd felt able to tell me about it. Worried about dealing with it to heavy handed and her feeling she cannot tell me things. When we were together he was quite ambivalent about smacking, and as I have always been vehemently against it, he agreed it wasn't something we would ever do. But obviously now, he's doing his own this on his own with her with no accountability at the moment.

Got into a fight????!!! That's not a fucking fight that's a grown man hitting a 4 year old!

Nope I'm sorry you need to step up now and get his custody massively reduced.

She's calling it a fight which means she's taking responsibility, no, no, no. What a prick.

He's really doing a number on her. The longer you leave this the more damage he will do. The less contact the better currently, until you can see the therapist. Poor little girl. What a pig.

Don't say anything to him. Talk more to her and record her saying it. Gather your evidence but do not alert him to what's going on. If you say anything to him he will give your daughter a hard time and ramp up his abuse.

Yes that's actually the thing that concerned me the most (aside from the hitting). I don't think the hitting would have been hard, I've seen no marks on her and the scenario she described was that he slapped her forearm and told her off in response to her slapping him. Obviously this was distressing to her and I'm not making light of it. But her description of it concerned me in that she was talking about them as being parallel, as peers, rather then being told off by a parent. Which kind of fits into the whole bigger picture of me feeling he is making her an ally and a confident, and speaking to her as if she is older than she is. She uses the term 'we had a fight' to describe disagreements between her friends the same age, and to me is more suggestion of their very weird dynamic.

I've documented it as a time and date saved note on my phone and in my diary record. Yes I worry talking to him about it will drive more secrets, but then I also want him to know I know, so if it is a one of occurrence he knows there's accountability and it really can't be happening again.

I've never smacked her, but I have internally come closer then I ever thought possible, so I can understand that sometimes parenting is very frustrating and can see how a one of occurrence of a tap to the arm can happen. Again, I'm not trying to make light, I don't know what the hit was like or exactly what occurred. However I think that needs to be a thing that happened once, is seriously reflected on and active work is done to ensure that point isn't reached again. If he knows I know, perhaps he will be pushed more to do that.

Yes you're right. It's not the snacking it's the very strange dynamic. Almost like she's his girlfriend. Which is super creepy and probably not the case. But alarm bells are going off for me - this isn't a normal dynamic. Not one bit.

Please don't say anything to him- it's better to just record, telling him may make him be more careful but it may make him double down on the pressure on your DD.

Also, she hid because she was scared. That's a really big deal. He must have been proper raging to scare her so much she hid.

I've recorded but not said anything. He is back to work now so is unable to have dd from midday Monday but instead is requesting picking her up at 5:30pm which I'm in two minds about as it seems late. He will have her Tuesday and Wednesday as normal and drop her back Thursday am. I know if I say no, it's too late, pick her up Tuesday morning he will go mad.

He has also said he is looking for a new part time job instead so he can have more time with her. This means he is probably going to start pushing for more access and he already has her 40% of the time. It also means he will he earning less money so won't be able to move out of the caravan and even when I buy him out and he has deposit money will unlikely be able to get enough of a mortgage to buy somewhere. I really feel we are reaching a point where I am going to have to insist on mediation and potential court.