How can I stop these intrusive and negative thoughts?

[jojobar]

I ended a LTR recently, I have posted about it too many times probably but I have no one to talk to in real life, because my only real friend was my Ex. And obviously I can't discuss with him.

I probably need therapy but I'm struggling to find a therapist who is currently working and taking on new clients, plus I'm not sure how comfortable I feel with Zoom therapy sessions anyway, it all feels awkward.

I keep thinking I could have tried harder, done more, if only I hadn't played it the way I did, the outcome could or would have been different. I did love him so much, and I'm really so sad it's over. I know he wasn't great and in some respects treated me poorly.

But then I read threads about dating on here where women in their 40s are told they probably won't find anyone who is tall/ attractive/ intelligent when you're in your 40s and I had that. He was all those things. So by that thought process I shouldn't have let him go because I'm unlikely to get anyone even as good?

So that's one of the thoughts torturing me.

The other is around his infidelity last year. The woman he was involved with turned into the stereotypical bunny boiler and persistently contacted me, making up fake social media accounts etc,she didn't stop until I threatened her with the police. She told me he'd only ever seen her as casual sex behind my back, that he never wanted a relationship with her but she hoped if she could get me out of the way he'd change his mind (we did split up but then got back together). She told me that I'm not good enough for him, I don't know what he wants and her parting shot to us both was that she was better than me, our relationship couldn't be saved and in 6 months we'd split up again, and she'd be waiting.

And of course that has happened, 6ish months on that's where we are. It pains me that she was right, and the thought of him ending up with her knocks me sick. She and I are complete opposites, I have a professional job, degree educated, own my home outright, whereas she works part time in a shop and lives with her parents. Her describing herself as better than me absolutely burns me, that she or anyone else could think that was true. I don't think it will happen, but I can't stand the thought of her ending up with him. If I think about him with someone, anyone else, it still feels a bit painful, but not as much.

So I'm sitting her thinking about her smug face telling me how she's better than me (mainly because she's younger and she claims better in bed, whatever), how she was right about our relationship, and I feel so angry about it all. And then think what if she was at least partly right? Is she better than me? And it just makes me feel shit.

How do I stop thinking this stuff? I was brought up to think one of the worst things is people laughing at you and/or knowing more than you, or getting one over on you. I keep thinking of her laughing and gloating at me and it makes me want to scream.

I've had relationships during my life with men of various heights, weights, ethnicity, hair colour, some were objectively very good looking, other less so.

When I met my Ex, I had the thunderbolt. He had all the physical characteristics I found most attractive in a partner. But it wasn't just that. He was clever (self-taught - didn't have a string of qualifications but that wasn't important to me), interesting, funny, caring. We met online, and conversation just flowed right from the first message.

He was the first person I had ever felt I could be myself with, who liked me just as I was. I usually found that men who liked my brain and personality weren't attracted to me; the ones who found me physically attractive were less attracted to the other parts, so relationships failed because of financial imbalance, they felt I was too clever, too posh (I'm really not), but with him it all just worked. Being liked for exactly who you are, as you are, is amazing when you've not had that before. It's for all those reasons that I valued him so highly, and I'm so sad it's over. I used to cry a lot in the early days of our relationship because I was so bloody relieved to have met him, so happy that I'd finally stopped feeling alone. It was one of the best times of my life.

I don't think for a moment that a woman of 40, or 50, or any age, is LESS deserving of a tall or intelligent or handsome or kind man or someone with any other attributes. It's more things I've read recently, on here and elsewhere. Suggesting that a man of 40+ if he has loads going for him would want a younger woman (I don't agree with that, maybe those who haven't been married and still want children - but those who have done that already probably want someone more their own age). Honestly I don't think that, but it's something I've read, and I think well if someone has said that maybe its right? Maybe I'm wrong? And so I begin self doubting...

I should be the bigger person, I shouldn't care what he does, I should wave him off happy in the knowledge I've made the right decision and hope never to hear from him again. I can't. I miss him every day. What a complete mess.

I will look into the therapy, thank you. I have to do something, I can't go on as I am, eating and not sleeping.

Just to say I've messaged the clinic referred to upthread, hopefully I will hear back from them tomorrow. Small steps :)

OP I read that third paragraph and could word-for-word relate to how I felt about my ex-wife. So it was like a punch in the gut when I found out she had an affair with a guy who was so completely the opposite of me and with qualities she'd previously said weren't her type. We were best friends, talked for hours.

She dumped that for an unemployed manchild who she admitted she struggled to talk to (his main interst were football and computer games, which she hated), but felt that was exciting because it was "mysterious". It wasn't even as if I'd done anything wrong. After she cancelled counselling because it wasn't unearthing anything and she said she felt "judged" she admitted that after a decade she was bored and wanted to feel like a teenager "in love" again. She actually still wanted me to stay her best friend, but she'd discovered monogamy wasn't for her. I couldn't even...

Sure, some men in their forties might prefer a younger woman. But only to the same extent a woman in her forties might prefer a man over 6ft. I'm 5 ft 10. It's average height. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit I've been put off online dating for similar lines to yours: if a woman has loads going for her they'd want a guy over 6ft, it's something I've read, and I think well if someone has said that maybe its right?

I can't say whether or not I'm a guy with a lot going for him. But I do know that there are guys out there who do, who think on similar lines to me - that what they actually want is a woman who gives them those similar feelings you thought you had with your ex, and I with mine. And that person could be 6ft 5 or 4ft 3 and it wouldn't matter a jot. The older I get, the less certain I am where actual attraction comes from. The last woman I really faniced had crooked teeth - and wierdly enough, I found it big turn on! I'm done with trying to reason what my "type" is. If you get my heart pumpling you've got it. End of.

*pumping, not pumpling - hmm... makes you wonder what a heart "pumpling" would actually be like...

I'm sorry for those of you who have been here. It's shit isn't it? :(

I tried, I really did. I never wanted us to split up, after we (mostly) got over the infidelity and him involving that crazy woman in our lives I thought we were ok, that it would all work out. I'm hoping that talking it through will help me understand if there were things I could or should have done differently, so I can learn from it and also help me to find a way to get out of this mourning cycle and into some kind of acceptance. If I can find a way not to end up in tears every day or only getting 3 hours sleep a night that would be good.

Also came on to suggest CBT. Find someone who is kind and warm - you've really been through it.
Many therapists offer discounts, especially via zoom/skype appointments at the moment.

I don't think for a moment that a woman of 40, or 50, or any age, is LESS deserving of a tall or intelligent or handsome...

I don't think I'm more or less deserving of a man of a certain height. Or a man who has been born with a certain face.

I don't understand why you keep mentioning these as positive attributes. They say literally nothing about them as a person!

When I was 18 - 25, what attracted me most to a man was an unconventional haircut, skinny black jeans and a pair of big boots. But now I'm over 40, appearances are the least important thing to me!

A relative of mine is someone who places a huge amount of importance on these physical attributes - I no longer see her because her current partner has a conviction for a crime that most people would see as an ultimate red flag but he is tall and handsome and he reflects well on her (and her sense of self worth) when she is walking down the street. With him. How strangers perceive her worth/value is more important. He isn't particularly kind to her and, I feel, he uses her because she is better off than him and from a 'better' background. He gets to enjoy a lifestyle he could never have had otherwise. He literally brought nothing to the table other than looks.

They should have priority importance.

*not

if a woman has loads going for her they'd want a guy over 6ft, it's something I've read, and I think well if someone has said that maybe its right?

It's not right. I have loads going for me and it's literally the least important thing i can think of!

My bf is 5'3. He's delicious! 😉

It hurts me that someone describes themselves as better than me when I've tried my whole life to be as good as I can at everything, I always try my hardest.

This is the problem. I think her ‘I’m better than you comments’ got to you because you already buy into the good vs bad bullshit. You don’t want to say it out loud but you believe you’re better than this woman, Thus you’re battle is with you’re own narrow belief system. Simply put, your insecurities are showing.

The same ‘good girl’ image thread runs through the Taylor Swift documentary on Netflix. She was sooo worried what people thought about her that it made her ill.

People are entitled not to like you and for whatever reason they choose, it’s all relative. The art to not giving a fuck, is not giving a fuck.

For me, physical attraction is as important as all other attributes. It's not more important but it is equally so. My ex isn't a Greek god. He's taller than me but he's not over 6ft. He's a long way from normal BMI. But whilst I was instantly physically attracted to him, the reasons why we lasted were all the other positive aspects. The fact he's the only person who's ever really loved me for who I am, and not wanted me to change any aspect of myself.

Some women I know would never find a man without abs attractive, or be interested in a balding man, or one with facial hair. Or tattoos, or whatever. None of those things bother me, I do have a preference for a man to be taller than me. Not over 6ft necessarily. And that's not to say I haven't had relationships with men who were not around my height.

As for what people think of me, I've always tried not to give a shit, to plough my own furrow. I've often not fitted in, but given no fucks about it. I've usually always trusted in my own decisions. I've had criticism and negative comments many times but I've generally managed to tune them out, but on reflection, I don't know that any of them have ever been quite so expressly I'm better than you.

The only comment I've found as hurtful in recent years was a 'friend' who said my dad would never have liked my Ex. But she couldn't have known that because she never met my dad (and she's only met my Ex once in passing). Rationally her comment made no sense but it did really upset me.

Tbh, jojobar, I think you place far too much importance on what other people think.

If you had truly ploughed your own furrow, you wouldnt give a shit what this woman, or indeed that friend, had said.

When she said your dad wouldnt have liked him, she wasn't really talking about your dad specifically, it sounds more like she observed qualities in him that someone who cared about you would want to protect you from. And, tbf, she was right!

For me, physical attraction is as important as all other attributes

It is for most people! Most people want to be with someone they find physically attractive but yours seem so superficial and contrived.

You mention other qualities in passing but tall and handsome top your list everytime.

I guess we're all different. I'm not attracted to blond men. I don't care of they're bald or grey but I find them more attractive if their hair was once dark. In fact, I dont think I've ever dated a blond man. But other than that... there obviously has to be a physical attraction there but it's not sp 'specific'.

As for the women you know who wouldn't date a man without abs... that's just really sad.

This is the problem. I think her ‘I’m better than you comments’ got to you because you already buy into the good vs bad bullshit. You don’t want to say it out loud but you believe you’re better than this woman, Thus you’re battle is with you’re own narrow belief system. Simply put, your insecurities are showing

I agree.

Don't be his friend. He didn't love you for you. He was a common sleazy cheat. You've put him on a pedestal when he lies. He cheats. There's a "crazy other woman" desperate for him. Ugh. He's vile. As a person he is foul. Block him

Physical attributes aren't top of my list, they're no more or less important than other aspects. They happen to be things I mentioned in my OP because of some threads I'd read recently around dating, wherein the suggestion seemed to be that the older you get, the less chance you have of meeting someone who is objectively attractive; this is not something I necessarily believe, but it was something I'd read more than once which was playing on my mind. Along with various other negative or self critical thoughts.

When I first met my Ex, from his photos I was expecting him to be shorter/ smaller build than he actually is because his photos weren't great and you couldn't get a sense of proportion from them. He also had glasses on which he rarely wears, so looked quite different. I liked him as a person, I enjoyed our conversations pre-meeting. His physical attributes being ones I found particularly attractive was an unexpected bonus to me when I first saw him, it wasn't a pre-requisite to us meeting or establishing a relationship. It was the same for him, his attraction was to me as a whole, not just my appearance or intellect or personality. Which was a real first for me.

He did love me for me; however at some point he stopped respecting me enough not to cheat on me. I know the reasons by which he rationalised that action, although I don't agree with what he did, I had accepted it had happened and notwithstanding, I still wanted to be with him and thought - after all the other problems we'd faced together, we would work it out. I'm sad we couldn't.

I don't see how I could be his friend, I don't know why he wants to be mine. If we had children together and/or it was an amicable 'we've just outgrown each other, it's time to call it a day' kind of split, I guess that's a situation where a couple could be friends? But not as we are.

OP I read your previous threads when you posted then. I'll level with you: you haven't lost out, you have had a lucky escape from someone who only really cared about himself. Now that he has contacted you, do not allow this piece of work back into your life. He treated you appallingly. I understand it really hurts that he did this to you when you thought he was "the one". BUT IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. It's his. Learn from what has happened and don't let someone mistreat you again.

As for the OW - she sounds incredibly insecure, but he probably knew that and picked up on it about her. He used her for whatever it was he wanted at the time.

I'll tell you why he wants to be your friend: guilt, or more likely he wants to keep you on the back burner and wheedle his way back into your life when it suits him in the future. Don't leave yourself open to this and just block him. You do not owe him anything and if being his friend is too painful and not what you want then say no to him. At a guess, he'll be abusive towards you and minimise your feelings whilst telling you you are being unfair to him and punishing him for no good reason. He'll do that because he wants his own way and doesn't like it when someone stands up to him.

That makes a lot of sense.

I can't just be his friend; our relationship is over, I gave him effectively an olive branch and in return he said he accepted there was so little between us (I'd never said that, quite the opposite) and that we were done. If we're not in a relationship, which we're not and not going to be, I need to grieve for and try to recover from that. I can't do that and be his friend. Every contact I have with him leaves me in floods of tears, I'm upset now just thinking about it. It's not going to do me any good for that to continue.

Someone I knew did the staying friends with an Ex thing despite still having feelings for him. She went on holidays with him, stayed at his house, nothing physical happened but despite this, she told us she was hopeful they'd get back together eventually. Years went on and although we told her kindly that it probably wasn't helping her, she carried on. After 6 years he met someone else, and she was devastated. I don't want to end up like that, this is hard enough to deal with now.

The olive branch you refer to - did you contact him when all the advice you received after he walked out was not to? He's got you dancing to his tune again now, hasn't he?

Look, it'll be difficult and, as you say, you need to grieve for the relationship. Time is a great healer and there will come a point where you no longer miss him.

Try to turn your negative thoughts around and view things with a different perspective. For example, instead of, "I'm all alone and I'll probably never have such a close relationship again", think, "I'm better of alone than with someone so self-centred who has no respect for me or my feelings". Easier said than done, but it really isn't your fault and you're well rid of him.

He contacted me to ask if I some things of his, and apologising for what had happened.

In response I explained that I hadn't wanted our relationship to end but because of what happened and his (at the time, and when we spoke several days later) refusal to acknowledge this or apologise, he'd left me with no choice - but that what I'd wanted him to do was what he had now effectively done.

He repeated that he was sorry, and then the stuff about there being little between us, we were done, could we still be friends. And that's where it's been left.

I will try to reframe negatives into positives, or at least neutrals. I have to do this often with work matters, so I should be able to try and apply this to my thoughts as well.

if I had some things of his, that should say.
And also to say that when collecting them he would return a boxful of my belongings.

He wasn’t perfect, he was unhealthy and flawed. What he put you through is horrible. You could never trust him ever again to not cheat on you. He wasn’t kind he was a selfish twat who screwed another woman.
I had CBT to get over a twat like this and reviver my self esteem. I still think about him but in a ‘what a tosser’ kind of way. No amount of good times, or anything else makes up for his deviant behaviour.
My ex was my physical ideal, tall etc etc. So I do have a type, and I would be overjoyed to meet that physical ideal again - but for me now, honestly, integrity and kindness come top of the list. I’m in my ‘50’s and couldn’t give a shit if I never meet anyone again - I’m still trying but just don’t want any more grief or drama. Therapy helped me to know my worth and boundaries and I prefer how I feel now

I entirely agree he has flaws. Even before the infidelity, I was aware that he was no more or less perfect than anyone else because he's just a human being and we all have faults and all make mistakes. The infidelity was more than a simple mistake, but we had got past that and once we did had been genuinely happy for months.
I'm far from ready to meet anyone else but I do know I don't want to go through the rest of my life alone. I have had too many years of that already and it's too hard having no support, no one to ever talk to about anything or who cares about you (or vice versa)

There's a book I've just read after a recommendation on here.

'It's called a breakup because it's broken'

Very easy to read, and made me laugh. Just got it on iBooks and read it quickly.

I'm also keeping a journal with lots of messages unsent.

It is amazing that time really does heal.

a woman has loads going for her they'd want a guy over 6ft, it's something I've read, and I think well if someone has said that maybe its right?

It's not right. I have loads going for me and it's literally the least important thing i can think of!

My bf is 5'3. He's delicious! 😉

Oooh same. Mines 5 foot 4, going bald but ooh my god hes bloody lovely yum

Actually been the best bloke ive ever had.

My ex was nearly 6 foot. Biggest tosser going