Doubts about second child due to IL relationship

[Funnyname]

Hi all,

I was just looking for a bit of advice/to see if anyone has been in a similar situation.

I have very negative feelings towards my husband's parents. I believe they emotionally abused him and his two siblings when they were growing up, as well as regular physical punishment (they would say normal chastisement for the times, I would class as humiliation as a form of punishment and control).

Now that their children are adults they constantly use guilt and manipulation to control their children. I truly haven't observed any interactions at all with their children where guilt/manipulation/games aren't present.

We saw them around 4/5 times a year prior to our child (who's now 19 months) being born. Since our child was born they want to visit more frequently.

Initially whilst I was on maternity leave I was present when they visited. I very quickly found it unbearable and started going out when they were due to visit. Now that I'm back at work (pre-covid) they visit around 2-3 times per month arranged for when I'm at work.

There's not been any arguments or anything said about me not being there - the most I've had is guilt trip texts from MIL about "really missing me".

I do not want people who I believe to have abused their own children to have a relationship with my child and my instincts tell me they will emotionally damage my child. I have been very frank with my husband about my feelings and he says he agrees about his parents behaviour but that they won't have an impact on our child.

My husband is always present when they are with our child.

We are now thinking about having another child and I am concerned about the fact I'll have to see them more frequently again if we have another child (who I would hope to breastfeed so at first couldn't really leave), I think I'd be less likely to bite my tongue at their nonsense (and this would cause my husband even more pain) and I'm not sure I could in good conscience bring another child into the world when I know how much contact they'll have with them (I naively assumed we would continue to see them 4-5 times a year like we did before our child arrived).

Since lockdown my husband is now sending daily videos and pictures of our child - according to my husband elicited by "she's all we have to live for/keep us going during this awful time"

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice?

Unfortunately moving isn't an option at the moment due to our jobs but could be in a couple of years.

Somebunny - I know you're right and my husband is very reasonable and accommodating (too much probably and that's part of the problem) and I worry he'd support no contact with our child reluctantly and feel pushed into it/resentful. I guess I thought if I gave him time and space he would make the decision on his own terms. It felt like it was going in that direction but this daily contact has me thinking he'll never make that decision.

I feel if I force my husband to stop the contact I will be playing out the patterns he's used to with his parents where his opinion and particularly feelings are not valued or even acknowledged. I love him and he is a good person who has endured more slow chipping away of him than I think he (or anyone should) have to. I'm so worried that I will add to his pain.

His mother had cancer and he said before this his father would argue with her but that has stopped now.

My husband said to me recently that the day I first realised what his parents were like was one of the best days of his life and felt almost euphoric with relief that it wasn't just him.

I don't know how to love and support my husband whilst keeping them away from my child.

Thanks Tork, that's very insightful

It's around 1 to 1.5 hours every two weeks.

I think going forward after covid lockdown we'll need to reassess visits and I'll need to be present.

When you are there you can help establish boundaries (remember you're also modelling this for your DC and some extent DH) and look for where they are least toxic. For example, my in laws escalate around extended family or if they get a whiff of vulnerability from anyone but are better in public and quite pleasant at times. So, we lean towards meeting in restaurants rather than their home etc.

I don't know how to love and support my husband whilst keeping them away from my child.

Allow me rephrase.

I must choose between protecting my husband protecting my child. I hate this choice. So far I have chosen to prioritise my husband. I hate this situation.

Nothing
Nothing
Nothing
Would stop me from having my second child short of ill health or a long view serious deterioration in finances

Sure as heck not an in law issue

Unfortunately you and your husband are enabling abusers and failing your child.

You are allowing abusive adults frequent and regular access with your child. You are both behaving as if you - and not your helpless child - are powerless to change this.

My mil wouldn't have been invited that many times, why do you allow it?
I know they can be a pain mine was dreadful in the beginning.
It's your child, tell your dh so many visits aren't doing it for you, and your child will be affected like he is.
I agree with a pp, why aren't you changing this?
No way would any parent I know carry on with a situation that would harm their child.

Thanks blackcat, that's really helpful! On the couple of occasions we saw them when I was pregnant it was in restaurants for that reason and it made it more bearable. My husband's Mum even then was pushing saying "but we can come round to your house when the baby is born", "why can't we come round". She tried to pull me unto the back and forth with my husband on that and I told he very bluntly that my husband and I are a team and when we make decisions they are as a unit. She seemed taken aback and then tried to get me back on side via text message afterwards by saying nasty things about another woman - she doesn't know me well as this repulsed me further and made me even less want any relationship with her.

Unfortunately my husband doesn't drive and I couldn't after my c-section so they came to our house. After a difficult road to pregnancy and complicated pregnancy (that my husband didn't want his parents to know about as he said they would make it all about them - sadly, they had a very late miscarriage before any of his siblings were born. His mother used to say to him and his siblings that if they were the girl she'd lost everything would be fine) I felt that they capitalised on my vulnerability to gain more access to our house and lives. Over the first year of our child's life there were a few life events that, on top of being a new parent, made my husband and I a little more vulnerable/low on reserves than we usually would be.

I think covid will actually provide a good reason to change up the meetings and if we're meeting outside our house as I'm the driver there is a good reason for my re-introduction.

Thank you all for your help.

Hello OP. I just wanted to offer a different perspective from the other advice you've had here. It's true that your child is vulnerable to abuse from abusive ILs. The comment i read before about 'making a sad face if they don't give granny a kiss' really made my jaw drop, so true and so subtle. I just don't want you to lose sight of the fact that it's important that you do care enough to identify all of this and stamp it out, you're not wrong. Every person alive is vulnerable to abuse at some point in their lives and sometimes the memories of how they were protected stay with them just enough to give them extra strength later on. I doubt you will ever leave your DC with the ILs for them to babysit. That's good! When your child is older and you can talk to them, you can take every opportunity to say 'gran was wrong to say that' and basically undermine her stupid abusive input. If you stopped them from seeing DC altogether that could give rise to a whole other bunch of problems down the line, DC growing up to think you deliberately 'kept them apart', ILs manipulating them over the phone when they're old enough that 'evil mummy never lets us see you'. So keep your decisions balanced if you can, I don't think it's as simple as cutting out access altogether. And to answer your original question, if you and your husband want another baby then you definitely should not allow troublesome ILs to stop that. Your child will have that sibling for the rest of their lives, by that comparison grandparents are fleeting passers by and shouldn't factor in to the decision to have another baby at all. Hope any/all of that makes sense and sorry for rambling.

Thanks SuckingDown that's really helpful.

They will never have care of our child without a parent present - we'd agreed that prior to trying to conceive.

I'm just in a bit of a muddle and need to take time to reflect on everything then have another chat with my husband about our strategy.

Sorry op but I wouldn’t leave just your DH there with the children, he is in their fog and might not notice/feel able to protect your child form the same behaviour. They will do the same to their grandchildren

Even though your husband is pulling his parents up on their behaviour, they are clearly still pushing it when he is there. Even THAT is not acceptable and your child should not be put in that situation, they are still being abusive even if your husband is telling them to stop! It’s not heathy for your child to endure that

It must be incredibly stressful for your DH on the days they visit. You saving him by causing the big falling out may well be something he thanks you for when the dust settles.

Interestingly @Funnyname I had the same conversation about DPs parents before our twins were born. It's so much harder IRL than when we're discussing our ideals. I guess the point of abusers is that they will make it as difficult as possible to go against them at every turn. Tears, depression etc that you can see for what it is and DP feels guilted by. I've definitely gained more strength and perspective from reading your thread so thank you x

Yes SuckDown my MIL actually said to my husband "well if you don't let me, I'll cry" to one of the things he'd asked her to stop doing! It's such blatant manipulation.

I asked him how he felt about it and he said "logically I know it's just games but I'm also fucking terrified I'll make my mum cry".

Thanks to you and everyone - this thread has helped me re-focus on this issue after a bit of a tough year.

I was going to recommend the same books that Attila recommended (Susan Forward) - do read them, they are excellent.

I also recommend couple's counselling if you can arrange it. Some counsellors will do video chat (hopefully more are offering it now!). It is very helpful for having difficult conversations and negotiating decisions about family.

Personally I would not want those people seeing my child(ren) without me being present. They are clearly pushing it far too much and your husband may think he is challenging them but in reality he should probably be telling them to leave. His boundaries are going to be way off. He probably needs counselling of his own. But if he doesn't want that, the book would be an excellent place to start.

FYI, after DH and I had our first child, the relationship between us and his parents broke down gradually but badly, and sadly we have ended up with no contact. I am pregnant with DC2. There's no way I would have given up my dream of a second child for their sake! But you are wise to want to resolve the current issues before TTC.

Thanks AnotherEmma - I think counselling would be really useful and it's an option my husband and I have briefly touched on so maybe time to revisit it.

Congratulations on your pregnancy! I hope you're feeling well and best of luck with your new wee one.

Thank you! Lockdown wasn't exactly part of the plan but we will get through it!

Best of luck navigating your situation

First off, let me say I'm glad that your DH does take his parents to task over their behaviour around your child. That's a good thing.

BUT I wonder how much of is to satisfy something in him, to say the things he wished he'd (or someone else) had the courage to say to them on his behalf when he was growing up. To 'bully them back' in a way for being bullied and manipulated as a child.

Because IMO, the correct thing to do if you see manipulative behaviour going on between and adult and a child is to minimize contact between the 'bully' and the child, not to try and 'mitigate it'.

You’re doing a disservice to your child to keep facilitating contact between her and abusive adults, And you’re doing it to avoid contact.

You’re throwing your kid under the bus.

*to avoid conflict

The law won't side with you. The law says that child should know they're family.

Actually, Ohio, it doesn't. In the UK grandparents have no automatic legal 'right' to a relationship with their grandchildren.

Clearly an expert on U.K. family law as well as spelling and grammar